as for being turned down, those guys were just looking for PL prolly.
people like fire/kins because they get 3 pets to work with and can be very dmging with IOs and such, and hot feet and the mass hold both work in melee range so easier and more beneficial to be close as the FS would make everything dmging.
i personally have not used one, but i have seen people farm really well on them.
those guys who turned you down were prolly just looking for a PLer, and they are the jerks.
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They're overrated. |
Originally Posted by LSK
I like to know what is so great with fire/kin trollers? I myself do not like playing Fire trollers, I prefer Ice, or Plant. I also have a Grav/Kin, but I don't like fire trollers much even though i do have 1 that is low level (fire/emp). So can some one tell me what is so great about them? I have been turned down from mish cause my Kin is not a fire/kin troller.
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The "best" character is the one you find the most fun. And the people who turn down a kin controller of any type aren't people you'd want to team with anyway.
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So here is the question^|
Originally Posted by LSK
I like to know what is so great with fire/kin trollers?
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Basically Fire/Kins late game get alot of +damage from Fulcrum shift. Having 3 pets with with them and Flashfire (aoe stun) coupled with either Earth mastery or Fire Mastery they put out a lot of damage and thus can normally speed through maps its the reason they are one of the top farmers one could want. (Not to say they are the only choice for farming) Having 3 scrapping imps amped up on FS attacking with you is what makes them a threat in PvE.
They also have the ability to be a none stop attacking chain since they have transference and transfusion to get health and end back. Also siphon speed increases there recharge and maintain high movement levels. Couple that with opening with Flash Fire or Cinders, then spamming Fire Cages with Hotfeet on then fireball (or stalgmites/Sesmic smash for earth mastery) most mobs just melt.
Basically the combination is a quality farmer since they can kill faster than most other combinations. Most people do not start seeing the change in them until after they get there fire imps at 32. If you have a fire troller try to level it to 32 and see the difference.
Since the question was not,.. which controller combination is the best.. it was "Whats so great about Fire/Kins" There is your answer, there great at fast AoE damage and survivability, thus making them prime farmers.
All Controllers are good at different things however.
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Fight my brute
The short version is: Fire/Kin is a powerset, once it gets its level 38 power, that can quickly defeat large numbers of certain types of low level foes non-stop. This makes it perfect for farming. Also, teams that want to plow through easy content quickly, love to have a Fire/Kin for the boost in damage buffs, endurance buffs and AoE damage.
But Fire/Kins are not as good against tougher foes or against certain types of foes. I have one at 43 . . . but just haven't taken the time to get her up to 50. I like my Fire/Rad more.
If they didn't want to team with you because you are not a Fire/Kin, you are better off for it.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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This... But I happen to love my fire/kin. I just finished a build I can team with. My solo build helped me afford this... I really dig the play style. It's a challenging set in that holds usually come from the immob and stun rather than one "hold". What I find amazing, is that people love fire/kins and want them on the team, but then waste what they do best by chaining them to buffbot/speed boost so the slow *** tank can clear... |
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
They're overrated.
The "best" character is the one you find the most fun. And the people who turn down a kin controller of any type aren't people you'd want to team with anyway. |
Both builds/versions of my kin play differently. One doesn't need the rest of the team, and the other hides behind the tank in a traditional controller back up. You're better off not being on that team... Usually those teams want you to play a certain way, will tell you when you are 'wrong' and are blind to better ways of doing it...
In the immortal words of Socrates, "I drank what?"
-- Real Genius
I've actually found them overrated on teams. They are known for bringing the damage, and to be honest, damage is not hard to come by with all the people playing scrappers and blasters out there.
This isn't to say Fire/Kins can't offer anything else, as they can. I just find other troller primaries more useful in my experiences.
Though, I will say a well played and team friendly Fire/Kin can be great...it's just that most folks think they are some kind of heaven-sent gift to the team, when they are not.
Don't I know you???
So they kill lot faster? I was on a team with my ice/storm troller and someone else brought a fire/kin, sadly they died and was killing slower then my troller 
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By some of your recommendations wouldn't ill/kin be better suited for farming?
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No AoE hold. Flash, I think, but..uh..I skipped it. PA can't be perma without pouring billions of dollars on them [exaggeration], spec terror does no damage, and Phantasm is really kinda lazy. It's a chaos set, and using my play style can solo bosses, but has trouble with groups of minions. |
Originally Posted by LSK
By some of your recommendations wouldn't ill/kin be better suited for farming?
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My secondary is storm. So I am a true Lord of Chaos. I'd be a horrible farmer.
I have a fire/kin at 20. I'm not fond of how she's treated by teams and how different she is from my normal powersets. She feels squishy and is a SB vending machine. She also has horrible end problems. When I do get to playing her again [I have too many alts] I'll get her to 27 and then start to set her out for recharge and stress endreds in her powers. Recovery is too little gains to try to get bonuses for imo.
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The problem with a lot of fire/kin players (note I'm referring to the players not the character type) is that they build their fire/kins for farming and expect that the play style and build they use for that activity will do well outside of the farm. |
Originally Posted by LSK
So they kill lot faster? I was on a team with my ice/storm troller and someone else brought a fire/kin, sadly they died and was killing slower then my troller
.By some of your recommendations wouldn't ill/kin be better suited for farming? |
They are sadly mistaken. You go into farm and line up the easiest patsies you can find for the most xp/inf for the shortest amount of the time. In the *real* game, you encounter stuff with exotic damage, lots of mezzes, endurance sapping, slows and all sorts of other things that make a farm built fire/kin look very mortal. It's laughable to see a farming fire/kin open with fire cages and run right into the middle of the mob against foes like Arachnos assuming their smash/lethal defense will save them, only to face plant because Arachnos does a lot of exotic damage, will mez you, placate you and do all sorts of other nasty things. Unless I know the player, I'm very hesitant to team with PuG fire/kins.
This isn't to say that a well played fire/kin can't excel in a team situation facing these kinds of foes, but a number of players can't get the farm mentality out of their heads and therefore assume that the patsies they beat on the farm are the same as foes they face elsewhere.
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Fully agree with this post. A well-played and well-built Fire/Kin can be a huge benefit to a team. Sadly, most Fire/Kins out there are built for farming, and farming builds are not very effective in most of the rest of the game. Most Fire/Kins tend to be selfish and full of themselves, thinking that they are the best of the best. Thus, while Fire/Kins are very popular with some kinds of players, the more team-oriented players tend to look down on Fire/Kins, stereotyping them as bad teammates. |
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
The problem with a lot of fire/kin players (note I'm referring to the players not the character type) is that they build their fire/kins for farming and expect that the play style and build they use for that activity will do well outside of the farm.
They are sadly mistaken. You go into farm and line up the easiest patsies you can find for the most xp/inf for the shortest amount of the time. In the *real* game, you encounter stuff with exotic damage, lots of mezzes, endurance sapping, slows and all sorts of other things that make a farm built fire/kin look very mortal. It's laughable to see a farming fire/kin open with fire cages and run right into the middle of the mob against foes like Arachnos assuming their smash/lethal defense will save them, only to face plant because Arachnos does a lot of exotic damage, will mez you, placate you and do all sorts of other nasty things. Unless I know the player, I'm very hesitant to team with PuG fire/kins. This isn't to say that a well played fire/kin can't excel in a team situation facing these kinds of foes, but a number of players can't get the farm mentality out of their heads and therefore assume that the patsies they beat on the farm are the same as foes they face elsewhere. |
Part of the problem is that Kinetics has very little protection -- a Fire/Kin's best defense is a lot of offense. Kinetics has a heal, a single target slow and some damage debuffing, but that's about it. So, against tougher foes, a Fire/Kin is at a disadvantage.
On a team, my Fire/Kin spends most of her time buffing teammates and controlling foes, with doing damage as a lesser function. I let the tank grab aggro, buff the melee teammates and try to let those guys take on the tougher foes. Only then do I run in to wipe out the minions and contribute damage to the others. Speed Boost can have a huge effect of the speed of a team, an a Kinetic's healing and endurance can keep a team running when others would have to stop. Unfortunately, you don't see many Fire/Kins who are team-oriented. Many skip Speed Boost since it no longer buffs the recharge of the Fire Imps.
Personally, I would not recommend Ill/Kin as a farming build. Illusion only has single target damage in Blind and Spectral Wounds. Phantasm has a cone attack and can be buffed but not controlled. Phantom Army receives no benefit from your buffs, other than allowing you faster recharge thanks to Siphon Speed. Fire/Kin IS a good build for farming certain types of missions because of the AoE damage from Hot Feet, Fire Cages and three buffed Imps. Plant/Kin has some decent AoE damage, too, but has some of the same weaknesses as Fire/Kin.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
While we are on the subject of Fire/Kins, I took my level 44 Fire/Kin Controller out a few days ago in a team mish. There was another Controller who I believe was Ice/Ice. He sent me a direct tell saying not to stack fire cages on the foes if he puts an ice patch down. I didn't reply as a I got to thinking what was he saying as it didn't make sense to me. I think his logic was if he put an ice patch down, then the foes couldn't slip and slide away if I "locked" them in place standing up with my fire cages and fire holds. Then I got to thinking, while they are locked in place, they are taking damage and if they came out of the fire hold, then the ice patch would still cause them to slip. So, what was the big deal here?
With that being said, my level 44 fire/kin Controller is my first fir/kin as I wanted to roll one because of all the hype about them. So far, going against foes +0, +1 can be a breeze but then as others have said in this post, when you get to higher level foes +3, +4 that have more exotic powers, then it can be a little bit of a challenge. Currently, I have my diff settings at +2 with no AV's. Maybe when I become a more skilled at it, I would raise the diff level.
As for team play, I held off on Super Boost until I knew how much it helps my teammates for those that want it. I really don't have a problem handing out SB every 2 min or so. If it keeps everyone alive longer, then it's a good thing. Though the last thing I want to be is a SB Controller. So, sometimes in the heat of battle, I will ignore SB unless someone asks for it such as a Tanker or Scrapper. That was my main reason for not being a Defender as I did try my hand at one once and didn't care to try and keep everyone alive all the time. I got wore out...lol. If I let someone die because I didn't heal them fast enough, then I didn't do my job. 
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I'll disagree with this slightly. Fire/Kins actually are very effective against tough foes, particularly AVs. Their debuffs are very underrated.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Part of the problem is that Kinetics has very little protection -- a Fire/Kin's best defense is a lot of offense. Kinetics has a heal, a single target slow and some damage debuffing, but that's about it. So, against tougher foes, a Fire/Kin is at a disadvantage.
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Siphon speed -rech, -spd
Siphon power -dmg
Transfusion -regen
Transference -end
Fulcrum shift -dmg
However, what most players focus on is what they can do as a buffer: speed boost for +spd/+rech, fulcrum shift +dmg. Many bad fire/kin players don't even realize that they can make substantial differences in AV fights as a debuffer. I've lost track of how many times I've asked a (bad) fire/kin player to use tranfusion on an AV to help keep it's -regen down. I'm sure they don't even realize that the fulcrum shift they're doing is actually cutting down incoming damage.
So while a /kin controller can't offer as much protection as a /cold or /FF controller, their damage mitigation abilities are far from bad.
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In addition, there are a few synergies that aren't obvious. Imps have no ranged attacks so they are the ideal pet for a Kin -- they're always in range for Fulcrum Shift, unlike pets like Phantasm that typically attack from range. Hotfeet is a powerful damage aura when amped up to the damage cap. Perhaps most important, Flashfire is up for every spawn and is compatible with the AoE immobilization power Fire Cages. The immob is important because it triggers containment which doubles damage and is not limited by the damage cap. |
Originally Posted by Chrome_Family
So here is the question^
Basically Fire/Kins late game get alot of +damage from Fulcrum shift. Having 3 pets with with them and Flashfire (aoe stun) coupled with either Earth mastery or Fire Mastery they put out a lot of damage and thus can normally speed through maps its the reason they are one of the top farmers one could want. (Not to say they are the only choice for farming) Having 3 scrapping imps amped up on FS attacking with you is what makes them a threat in PvE. They also have the ability to be a none stop attacking chain since they have transference and transfusion to get health and end back. Also siphon speed increases there recharge and maintain high movement levels. Couple that with opening with Flash Fire or Cinders, then spamming Fire Cages with Hotfeet on then fireball (or stalgmites/Sesmic smash for earth mastery) most mobs just melt. |
I'm currently leveling an Ice/Kin now (and loving it) but if I tried that trick with an AoE immob over Ice Slick it'd be counterproductive and likely lead to debt.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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Or as much protection as a Rad or Thermal or Sonic or Storm or TA. |
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
I'll disagree with this slightly. Fire/Kins actually are very effective against tough foes, particularly AVs. Their debuffs are very underrated.
Siphon speed -rech, -spd Siphon power -dmg Transfusion -regen Transference -end Fulcrum shift -dmg However, what most players focus on is what they can do as a buffer: speed boost for +spd/+rech, fulcrum shift +dmg. Many bad fire/kin players don't even realize that they can make substantial differences in AV fights as a debuffer. I've lost track of how many times I've asked a (bad) fire/kin player to use tranfusion on an AV to help keep it's -regen down. I'm sure they don't even realize that the fulcrum shift they're doing is actually cutting down incoming damage. So while a /kin controller can't offer as much protection as a /cold or /FF controller, their damage mitigation abilities are far from bad. |
From a defensive/protective standpoint, Regen Debuff in Transfusion does nothing to mitigate damage. Yes, it can help take down an AV or EB faster, but I was explaining why Fire/Kins die a lot on teams when they play like they do when they farm -- and I wasn't limiting it to single AVs. Endurance Drain on a single target doesn't do much unless you have a way to stop Recovery; you might stop one or two attacks, but that's usually it. So, you have a single target Slow (with -Recharge), and two powers that provide -Damage. That is not much damage mitigation compared to any other set (other than Emp -- Emp replaces debuffs with buffs). The only real defensive power in Kinetics is Repel, which just about everyone skips.
But I agree with your point that (good) Fire/Kins can contribute with debuffs from the five powers you listed as well as buffs, especially on AVs. That's the main reason to keep Siphon Power after getting Fulcrum Shift -- for that single tough target.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
To add a little bit to what has already been said: The secondary effect of all Fire attacks is more damage. Kinetics has a lot of tools in its bag of tricks that effects the caster as well as the team as opposed to say, empathy with 2 single target buffs and 2 single target heals.
Kinetics lets a player have extreme recharge through siphon speed, which in turn lets that player have unlimited endurance with transference and a huge heal with transfusion. That alone gives them great survivability.
Then add in an AOE stun in flashfire - if you open with that you should limit or eliminate return fire. Follow with fire cages, an AoE immobilize that keeps them in place. Then run in with hotfeet and imps active -- 2 passive damage powers. Then you hit fulcrum shift to cap your damage as well as the imps. Then double that as controllers get special containment damage for anything that is mezzed, and that ignores the damage cap.
None of the Fire control attacks are particularly damaging, but the combination of all those dots at the damage cap with containment add up quickly to allow you to mow through ungodly numbers of minions. But watch out for bosses and anything that tosses out mezzes of their own.
That's why farmer fire/kins stick to non-mezzers to farm. They either cap their smash/lethal defense with IOs and rock armor and go after things like Battle Maiden's minions, or get fire armor and farm behemouths. Some go for the mezz protection in indomitable will, but those are usually more team friendly builds.
When I team with my fire/kin I concentrate more on my kinetics than the fire -- making sure everyone is speed boosted and has increased density, look for big herds to fulcrum shift, and click transfusion and transference to keep my teams health and endurance capped while sapping the AV, or whatever. If all that is taken care of, then I'll throw some fire around.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Agree. My second post was mostly a nitpick anyways. |
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Or as much protection as a Rad or Thermal or Sonic or Storm or TA.
From a defensive/protective standpoint, Regen Debuff in Transfusion does nothing to mitigate damage. Yes, it can help take down an AV or EB faster, but I was explaining why Fire/Kins die a lot on teams when they play like they do when they farm -- and I wasn't limiting it to single AVs. Endurance Drain on a single target doesn't do much unless you have a way to stop Recovery; you might stop one or two attacks, but that's usually it. So, you have a single target Slow (with -Recharge), and two powers that provide -Damage. That is not much damage mitigation compared to any other set (other than Emp -- Emp replaces debuffs with buffs). The only real defensive power in Kinetics is Repel, which just about everyone skips. But I agree with your point that (good) Fire/Kins can contribute with debuffs from the five powers you listed as well as buffs, especially on AVs. That's the main reason to keep Siphon Power after getting Fulcrum Shift -- for that single tough target. |
Well as it stands now I have a lvl 35 grav/kin that I am working on, any suggestions on it for team build, (im not trying to make it a farmer toon)
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My best advice is to break out Mid's Hero Designer (download it if you haven't already), design something you think looks good to you, and then post the build in a new thread to let people pick it apart and tweak it.|
Originally Posted by LSK
Well as it stands now I have a lvl 35 grav/kin that I am working on, any suggestions on it for team build, (im not trying to make it a farmer toon)
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Some people might be rude about it, but most folks give pretty good advice if you show them a starting build.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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I can see your woes with being back up for a slow Tanker, but youv never teamed with a real Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker.With, or without your buffs, they can whipe mobs faster then any Tanker you normally play with.(Thats not counting SD/Elec Tankers.)|
Originally Posted by Chowder
This... But I happen to love my fire/kin. I just finished a build I can team with. My solo build helped me afford this... I really dig the play style. It's a challenging set in that holds usually come from the immob and stun rather than one "hold". What I find amazing, is that people love fire/kins and want them on the team, but then waste what they do best by chaining them to buffbot/speed boost so the slow *** tank can clear...
Both builds/versions of my kin play differently. One doesn't need the rest of the team, and the other hides behind the tank in a traditional controller back up. You're better off not being on that team... Usually those teams want you to play a certain way, will tell you when you are 'wrong' and are blind to better ways of doing it... |
A well made and played Pure Fire Tanker can jam out some fugly damage, and can drop mobs almost as fast, if not faster, (Depending on how well built it is.) as a Fire/Kin.
I personally could never bring my self to make a Fire/Kin, mainly becuase so many people use it, have it, and im sick and tired of seeing them for the most part.
Theres plenty of other things out there that can do massive damage and map clearing, and theres other things that cant clear as fast, but cant dish out the massive damage of a Fire/Kin, a Fire/Fire Tank, or whatever you choose to do so with.I personally think, that if your Controller can wipe a map while on a 8 man team, forget about the slow Tankers feelings.Thats the way iv delt with it in the past on my Tanker.
Random Invln/Axe Tank says to me, "Your Fire Armor, so it would be best to let me take the Alpha."
My Tankers response, .....none, I didnt respond, I just took point anyhow, and would trash the mob the moment I jumped in.Even con'd Minions Dropped within my first attack, which was Fire Sword Circle after the use of my BU + Fiery Embrace.LTs would drop after a combustion and then a Fire Breath after doing a slight ajustment for angle.
After watching this, the other Tanker acctually jumped in, and started attacking the bosses, and with a combonation of his ST attacks, my own ST attacks, and the teams Blaster after my first 3 attacks, the mob was dead.
I smirked at that point, and ran into the next mob, and began yet another assault.The other Tanker repeats that he should take point.I still responded, with absolutly nothing.
After 2 more times of him trying to tell me to let him be the Alpha Tank, he stopped bothering, and we completed the mission in a rather fast fashion.After the mission, he dropped team, and started broadcasting for another team, and no one complained that he left.
My point is, dont bother with pandering to that Tank if its a known Stand and Deliver Slow Killing Tanker.Just annyalate the map anyhow.Pointless to allow your self to be played second fiddle.
To the OP, many people play a Fire/Kin because they like speed, and have little, to no patience when it comes to farming, and I cant say I blame them.If you had to stare at the same mobs day after day, id want them dead quick too.
I just perfer other ATs and builds to get that job done.
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The important bit is that they're improving DPS for everyone, not just themselves. Since this multiplier can actually improve Scrapper/Blaster/etc. damage beyond a fire/kin's own damage cap, they should be empowering the DDers to outshine them.|
Originally Posted by dougnukem
I've actually found them overrated on teams. They are known for bringing the damage, and to be honest, damage is not hard to come by with all the people playing scrappers and blasters out there.
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And while I'll admit to be primarily focused on myself when I'm playing my fire/kin, I do pay attention to the green and blue bars of my comrades. Endurance is a rare buff, and Transference is usually appreciated by anyone who just nuked.
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I played a fire/rad to ~40 before quitting it (though grats to anyone likes fire/rad), and I couldn't understand the fire/ hype. And then I played a fire/kin.|
Originally Posted by LSK
I like to know what is so great with fire/kin trollers?
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For me, it's the beautiful combination of powers. You get holds, immobs, a damage aura, a heal with a regen debuff, an endurance boost with a regen debuff, pets, an easy way to S/L softcap, and arguably the best damage buffs (with damage debuffs) in the game. Oh, and Speed Boost.
Granted, you won't "bring the pain" to your enemies until you're ~35 (as other people have said) and have Fire Imps slotted, but I found the progression through levels to be about as easy any character I've played. At level 38, when you get FS, you'll start feeling really potent.
Fire/kins do work best against certain types of enemies though. S/L softcapped, they can tank on a speed ITF, but a LGTF might come as a sharp shock.
Just today I was in awe of the /Fire tank slicing through the LGTF ahead of me. So Fire/Kins are great, but they're not everything.
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Playing a Stone Tank, there's rarely a time when you don't want SB. Unless you build for speed and recharge, Granite is painfully slow.|
Originally Posted by Chowder
What I find amazing, is that people love fire/kins and want them on the team, but then waste what they do best by chaining them to buffbot/speed boost so the slow *** tank can clear...
Both builds/versions of my kin play differently. One doesn't need the rest of the team, and the other hides behind the tank in a traditional controller back up. You're better off not being on that team... Usually those teams want you to play a certain way, will tell you when you are 'wrong' and are blind to better ways of doing it... |
However, I haven't encountered another build where a desire for SB isn't really a desire for something else, usually Endurance. Since Transference is a debuff as well as a buff, it's something I'm happy to use frequently without feeling trapped into that "SB buffbot" mode.
I handle this by compromise, stated in my profile: I SB the tanks/brutes and anyone who asks for it, but otherwise, I don't.
I admit that my team might work a little better if I SB-d everyone, all the time, but I played a Defender like that, took it to 50, and never played it because I loathed feeling like a SB-dispenser.
I don't understand not taking SB though. I always SB my imps and the improved DPS is blatantly obvious to me. Mobs go down quicker.
And that one guy who always runs now? He doesn't make it half as far, so my imps don't pull the next mob by accident.
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Ya like mentioned before up top, Fire/Fire tanks are like that. I have a level 50 Tank that has been the main tank in lot of things he has been in, and I never hear any complaints from it. Even got the MoKahnTF badge to prove it :P
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Originally Posted by Harkness
Just today I was in awe of the /Fire tank slicing through the LGTF ahead of me. So Fire/Kins are great, but they're not everything.
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WOW forget the */ part of the powerset, like others have said... if they do not want to team with /Kin there is something wrong with their thinking
I like to know what is so great with fire/kin trollers? I myself do not like playing Fire trollers, I prefer Ice, or Plant. I also have a Grav/Kin, but I don't like fire trollers much even though i do have 1 that is low level (fire/emp). So can some one tell me what is so great about them? I have been turned down from mish cause my Kin is not a fire/kin troller.