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LOL|
Originally Posted by Kierthos
Now, one thing you really couldn't do was change the floor plan. If you had a particular size of house, it had the same floor plan as every other house of that size. But you could change everything else... wall color, floor color, where you wanted your NPCs to stand, etc. On the outside, you could change the wall color, roof color, etc., and even have stuff in your yard. Most people went for a decorative garden or things like that. I, on the other hand, went for 'redneck'. (Outhouse in the side yard, broken wagon wheels near the front porch....)
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I think to make it more complete, you'd need half a dozen wagons in the yard (with no wheels,) the house (with wheels under it,) and several dogs under the front porch.
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If there had been an option to put hound dogs anywhere in the yard, I would have done it.|
Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
LOL
I think to make it more complete, you'd need half a dozen wagons in the yard (with no wheels,) the house (with wheels under it,) and several dogs under the front porch. |
Oh, I forgot, I also had an archery range (a couple stand up bullseye targets) in the backyard. The basement had a bar, a poker table, and a lot of beer barrels.
I'll be back if there is word of new base development.
Till then, best wishes!
Mr. H
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Minor correction. PvP participation hit a peak participation level around i6/7 before gradually lowering into just above ten percent as of issue 11, as per Ex Libris. It did hit and hold double digits for some time, but was not a priority issue for the skeleton dev team's limited time.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Base Raids and the Cathedral of Pain fitted into the original design scope of the game, when the development staff at Cryptic honestly thought they had to have PvP play in order to draw a successive playerbase from the established MMO's on the market. Market Reality, however, taught a different lesson. Despite launching PvP play in May 2005, by the time May 2009 rolled around 4 years later, the paying playerbase that participated in PvP content had never left single digit percentages. Quite simply, City of Heroes was proof to the MMO industry that PvP play was not a requirement for a successful MMO... and as NCSoft found out in the financial meltdown of Tabula Rasa... PvP play was not enough to sustain a game either. |
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
In a lot of ways I see the base situation like a starving man and a master chef. The chef is like, "I already have other orders but if you wait a while I'll fix you a seven course meal". The starving man feels that, "That's great and all but I've been hungry for a while. Can't I just get a sandwich?" While base builders understand that larger changes will take a while, it gets frustrating that they can't get boring grey Arachnos box #5 added to the list of objects in the meantime or other "easy" additions of things that already exist in the game. Further more, it seems like their place in line is being skipped constantly.
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heh. Its more like the starving guy outside the cafe. No matter how much we say were starving, They don't seem to hear us from behind the glass windows.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
In a lot of ways I see the base situation like a starving man and a master chef. The chef is like, "I already have other orders but if you wait a while I'll fix you a seven course meal". The starving man feels that, "That's great and all but I've been hungry for a while. Can't I just get a sandwich?" While base builders understand that larger changes will take a while, it gets frustrating that they can't get boring grey Arachnos box #5 added to the list of objects in the meantime or other "easy" additions of things that already exist in the game. Further more, it seems like their place in line is being skipped constantly.
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If I recall correctly, the last time we even heard of anything new for the bases was when builder from this form started threadjacking pvp threads to get some attention. Lately it seems as if the dev's want the bases to just go away or only be thought of as a part of the raiding system for pvp. I just wish that bases were more of a priority to the devs than it currently seem that it is.
I understand that the devs are working on GR and don't have much time to worry about such a small section of the game, but dammit! This is a part of many in the game that I actually enjoy and would like to see it get a little dev love in one way or the other.
The answer is: No, the devs do not hate bases.
They hate Villains. 
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
From every thing that I've seen, heard, read, figured out, etc. any update to bases HAS to be huge, or it will blow everything up. What I see as the problem of a huge base update is this: What happens to existing bases?
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This is something I keep saying, so naturally I think it's spot-on. :-)|
Originally Posted by je_saist
One of the basic problem(s) is that what the developers imagined the game would be like back in 2001, 2002, and 2003, isn't what the game has become.
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A lot of the leftover stuff just doesn't make sense unless you think of the original design as being to waste your time EQ-style.
I don't think the developers hate bases - taking base-building from being expensive to relatively cheap shows that. But that has had an unforeseen consequence - the rise of the personal SG and personal storage base (of course, people did it before, but it's a lot more viable now).
I think if you want to see bases - and supergroups - rise again, part of the answer is to cut that short. Account-wide storage is an often-made proposal, but it has to not be viable to take that _and_ a personal storage SG. I've suggested before - you can have account-wide storage, but then you only grant the 20K prestige to SGs you join once, not once per toon. That stops you from setting up a personal SG with 300,000 prestige, and makes using the account-wide storage and joining an SG with other players more viable.
I agree that base raids are basically a no-hoper given the overall failure of PvP (but, more controversially, I don't think that failure has anything to do with the i13 changes.)
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(1) Yeah, I would rate a relook of base and personal storage needs pretty high up on the priority scale of base development need. Do the devs? Who knows?|
Originally Posted by Thunderforce
This is something I keep saying, so naturally I think it's spot-on. :-)
A lot of the leftover stuff just doesn't make sense unless you think of the original design as being to waste your time EQ-style. I don't think the developers hate bases - taking base-building from being expensive to relatively cheap shows that. But that has had an unforeseen consequence - the rise of the personal SG and personal storage base (of course, people did it before, but it's a lot more viable now). I think if you want to see bases - and supergroups - rise again, part of the answer is to cut that short. Account-wide storage is an often-made proposal, but it has to not be viable to take that _and_ a personal storage SG. I've suggested before - you can have account-wide storage, but then you only grant the 20K prestige to SGs you join once, not once per toon. That stops you from setting up a personal SG with 300,000 prestige, and makes using the account-wide storage and joining an SG with other players more viable. I agree that base raids are basically a no-hoper given the overall failure of PvP (but, more controversially, I don't think that failure has anything to do with the i13 changes.) |
(2) My personal opinion is that base raids have a history of being a quagmire of development failure. I'm not convinced that throwing more development resources at this aspect of bases is worthwhile or will even work at all in the end. But the devs clearly disagree. In fact, it's one of the very few things I've heard about in terms of commitment of development to do anything for bases. Despite this history, despite the PvP population and despite that there are many other areas where others would like to see base development resources applied... we appear to be headed for at least one more attempt at what Positron calls "Base raid awesomeness".
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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That's what makes it a huge, complex problem.|
Originally Posted by Aquatic_Death
From every thing that I've seen, heard, read, figured out, etc. any update to bases HAS to be huge, or it will blow everything up. What I see as the problem of a huge base update is this: What happens to existing bases?
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Any solution that doesn't accommodate existing bases is absolutely a non-starter.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Although, if they started with just a brand new editor, and changed other things one at a time, it would probably be easier.
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Well, they do. :-)|
Originally Posted by Fire_Away
(1) Yeah, I would rate a relook of base and personal storage needs pretty high up on the priority scale of base development need. Do the devs? Who knows?
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I would argue that removing the incentive to have personal storage SGs - in a way that doesn't make people angry (in particular, my proposal doesn't take away that option, it just gives another equally good option) - would be of considerable benefit. Part of what keeps people playing is the social side. Of course, global chat has enormously improved that; however, being in a large active SG and coalition would also offer benefits. Keeping people playing has an obvious financial benefit, but beyond that, keeping people socialising - not running through any of that expensive-to-develop content - is a cheap and easy way to keep subscriptions.
Unfortunately the way it seems to me is the dev's see bases as only a thing to add to the pvp aspect of the game. I hope I am wrong, but I fear I am not. I think the dev's were hoping initially that the bases were going to be the way they were going to do any sort of large scale pvp raiding. The social aspect of a base seemed secondary.
I love to tinker on my base ever since i13 opened up the new building avenues we currently enjoy. And I hope the dev's can see from the various other posts on the base forums that there is room to expand bases in this direction and not just for pvp. But I fear, along with a few others, that this will call for a total revamp of the base architecture and may be too large for such a small part of the community for the dev's to worry about.
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This seems a remarkable thing to suppose given that base PvP was turned off in i13 and at the same time bases were made much cheaper, enabling many more people to make serious use of them.|
Originally Posted by unjust
Unfortunately the way it seems to me is the dev's see bases as only a thing to add to the pvp aspect of the game.
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I daresay the original concept for bases was partly oriented around PvP, but things change.
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Originally Posted by Thunderforce
This seems a remarkable thing to suppose given that base PvP was turned off in i13 and at the same time bases were made much cheaper, enabling many more people to make serious use of them.
I daresay the original concept for bases was partly oriented around PvP, but things change. |
they turned off PVP for i13 because they couldn't get it working. They remade a bunch of items in the base editor destructible specifically for i13 and pvp raiding. The Devs could never get it to work and that is why the base raids got shut off along with the collision detector.
And at the same time, they made it even easier in i13 to stack stuff and put objects through each other, therefore making it easier to create indestructible boxes and barriers around PvP-destructable items.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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Who do you suppose is unaware of these facts?
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Originally Posted by unjust
they turned off PVP for i13 because they couldn't get it working. They remade a bunch of items in the base editor destructible specifically for i13 and pvp raiding. The Devs could never get it to work and that is why the base raids got shut off along with the collision detector.
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I stated that because you assume that things have changed for bases and raiding post i13. I just assume that they may just be on hold. Either way no one knows for sure except for the dev's. I know that if I created something for a purpose and it didn't work right I'd try and fix it, I'd figure the dev's are the same way.
None of that really matters, what matters is when we are ever going to hear what is happening with bases. Their as well, Only the dev's know. 
There are active Base Editors on Infin Server. This weekend, in fact we are having a Best Bases Tour, with 3 billion in inf to be awarded as prizes. A base may be a useless accotrement in the present incarnation of CoH, but it can be a PRETTY COOL useless accountrement!
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A little unrelated and a little biased. You could also say that PvP in CoX just never was really good, never was given much love, and implementing it as an afterthought when the playerbase consisted of course only of people that are happy with just PvE didnt help either, so players that were really into PvP went somewhere else.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Despite launching PvP play in May 2005, by the time May 2009 rolled around 4 years later, the paying playerbase that participated in PvP content had never left single digit percentages. Quite simply, City of Heroes was proof to the MMO industry that PvP play was not a requirement for a successful MMO... and as NCSoft found out in the financial meltdown of Tabula Rasa... PvP play was not enough to sustain a game either.
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Whatever the point of view tough, yes, CoX has indeed never been much of a PvP game.
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But no, I dont think they hate bases. Its more like they have a master plan that says which parts of the game are finished now and have to stay untouched until the plan says they will be worked on again.
There are a lot of other things in the game that have blatantly obvious glitches or missing things that have been pointed out for years, that could be fixed or added, or at least made a lot better in a matter of mere hours.
(e.g. the wrong (showing broken) image for the Grandville beacon in bases. More animal costume parts, even if its just those that are already in the game. Setting PvP back to I13 rules. Having AE custom critters give less but not zero rewards when you remove powers but still leave attacks in. Renaming "Single" guard group setting to "None" as that is what it does. I am sure everybody knows a lot of well-known yet long-living bugs and glitches.)
But it seems the master plan doesnt allow those to be looked into, so they go ignored for long times, sometimes years.
Or maybe they ARE working on a so super overhaul that the fixes become obsolete, but they dont say anything then and make it look like they ignored it.
It is very strange and seems wrong, yes. But I assure you it's not only happening to bases.
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For over a year and four subsequent issues.|
Originally Posted by unjust
I stated that because you assume that things have changed for bases and raiding post i13. I just assume that they may just be on hold.
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| Either way no one knows for sure except for the dev's. I know that if I created something for a purpose and it didn't work right I'd try and fix it, I'd figure the dev's are the same way. |
You're missing the point, though. When PVP was turned off for bases, they were not just abandoned; another change was made that promoted the use of bases. This is an undeniable fact. Therefore bases are not seen as pointless without the use of PVP.
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You could, and it would be fair comment (as would the observation that PvP was initially a poor thematic fit with the hero-only game), but that doesn't really detract from the previous poster's observation that CoX shows you don't need successful PvP for a successful game.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
You could also say that PvP in CoX just never was really good, never was given much love, and implementing it as an afterthought when the playerbase consisted of course only of people that are happy with just PvE didnt help either, so players that were really into PvP went somewhere else.
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| Its more like they have a master plan that says which parts of the game are finished now and have to stay untouched until the plan says they will be worked on again. |
I would love to see all the misplaced apostrophes and other typos that litter the game fixed. Will it get addressed systematically, as opposed to War Witch hitting a few here and there? No; 80% of the player base think "you" is spelled with one letter. What do they care?
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| Setting PvP back to I13 rules. |
I suspect CoX PvP is doomed, but if I were trying to rescue it I'd go the other way. Introduce a zone, or alter (or double-instance) an existing zone, where you automatically switch to a third build (and away from that build on leaving). Plain IOs to slot in that build are free. Maybe plain double-aspect IOs, but with no effectiveness bonus for being double-aspect, just a way to slot half a slot's End Redux or whatever. Respecs for that build are unlimited. Any two players can have any build they please; the outcome of a match can depend on playing skill not tolerance for tedium.
That does sound extremly formilliar to me with what Jack Emmert has done before. Doesn't it?
I know off topic but I am from the pantless server (if you don't know what one that is then you really need to troll the boards more offten) and we do this a lot.