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Ugh... I hear (and agree with) what you said about existing bases being a kludge. I'm just not so sure pinning the future of bases on the future of AE is such a hot idea though. With largely empty AE buildings and people openingly questioning the value of MA in total, I'm not so sure this is a great "rising star" to attach to either. The AE world might be, in the aggregate, in worse shape than the base world (die-hards in both camps aside) in terms of participation (I have no hard data on this however).|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
Which means that the best hope for upgrades to bases lies in aligning development resources for bases with development resources for AE environments ... which in aggregate sounds like a worthwhile "topic" of focus for an Issue release.
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My wish would be to see bases somehow incorporated into the lore or "story bible" of the game itself. If only they could somehow project the pve (and yes optional pvp) environment into bases. If they could somehow be more "fun and functional" as I heard Positron once say... they would, I think, flourish
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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Back in 2005, and at many points thereafter, I suggested that Cryptic develop a toolset for mission creation that could be used by both devs and players to create content.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Away
I'm just not so sure pinning the future of bases on the future of AE is such a hot idea though. With largely empty AE buildings and people openingly questioning the value of MA in total, I'm not so sure this is a great "rising star" to attach to either.
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Even back then - if you can believe it - players complained about needing more content and a greater variety of maps.
Like many, I had played NWN before coming to CoH, and I was familiar with the map, NPC, and mission creation toolset we had with NWN, and the resultant huge vault of player created goodness, and I thought it would be a win/win situation to have the dev team make a toolset for mission and map creation. A toolset which would not only enable players to make content, but also greatly ease the burden of the devs who were working on official content.
Joe Morrissey - who was hired to the dev team in 2007 - suggested the same thing, and actually got some traction with the idea. When NCsoft bought out Cryptic and asked the devs for a business proposal, the devs responded that one of the things they wanted was support for building new content creation tools.
The long and the short of it is that the devs are getting money from NCsoft to develop a full suite of content creation tools, some of which will find their way into the Mission Architect. And since it has been a complaint for ages now, one hopes that map creation is HIGH on their list of things to do.
Once the devs have a new map creation tool (like the one we had in NWN), they can greatly increase the number and quality of the available maps. If they hook it up to the Mission Architect, we can make new maps too.
And surely, if we have a tool to make new maps, it will eventually be used to replace the base editor. Or at least one would hope it would be so! lol
Though of course if we can make new maps, we'll need about 10x the file space we presently have.
Where to start... While there are some base builders that feel they are getting no love... the thing is, the devs have to keep this game fresh and going in the right direction and while it's cool to have a nice base it's really far from the most important thing in this game!
I am a base builder and for me it's a cool way to express being creative no doubt. The issue they released (forgot the number) that allowed us to stack certain items made base contruction so much more fun, well alteast it did for me, I was so sick of the magic box!!
I have seen threads where people want this and that but to be honest, I love the fact you have to use your imagination and be really inventive, which you would lose if you could click and option for exmaple like add a second floor... there have been a few builders that have done things that make me go "nice idea" like Stacker, Turbo Star and a few others.. Stacker's light stairs was very cool Idea, the way things are now, it makes you have to think in order to get what you want which always pays off when you can create something that came from your imagination using the items available I would like to see them add some new items and maybe make it so you are able to work in the door area but who knows we shall see...
It's better to save the Mystery, than surrender to the secret...
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Do you need to add the link in my signature to yours, Alty? It's really helpful!
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Originally Posted by Altoholic_Monkey
Gah! It's driving me crazy!
Title should be: Do Devs hate bases Current title is asking: a) Do the Devs hate the base's question. (When will you love me?) b) Do the Devs have a hate base. (Where they store all their hate and hate filled products) Hehe, a Hate Base....okay grammar rage subsiding. |
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Fair enough; actual hate requires effort.
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
In layman's terms; It isn't that Devs HATE bases, base raids, and PvP. There just isn't enough reason to care.
I still try to be optimistic that ParagonStudios unlike Cryptic might Throw us newbies a bone who didn't get the opportunity to experience base raids and those of us that love base building. |
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
I asked Sunstorm at HeroCon about bases, and he said that he did have things in the work, but that yes he's been heavily involved with GR.
I'm hoping that, like BaB, he's sneaking a little time hear and there to work on things for the base builders.
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[Sigh], you mean Sunstorm the guy who is a white name now? I can't get confirmation that he's even still with NCSoft any longer (In the past a red to white name designation change meant adios. But it's possible I guess it's an error or name change or something.)... let alone working on bases (or anything else).
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Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
I asked Sunstorm at HeroCon about bases, and he said that he did have things in the work, but that yes he's been heavily involved with GR.
I'm hoping that, like BaB, he's sneaking a little time hear and there to work on things for the base builders. |
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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Well, if that's the case, then I guess the answer is: Yes, the Devs hate bases. |
Originally Posted by Fire_Away
[Sigh], you mean Sunstorm the guy who is a white name now? I can't get confirmation that he's even still with NCSoft any longer (In the past a red to white name designation change meant adios. But it's possible I guess it's an error or name change or something.)... let alone working on bases (or anything else).
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Good discussion. Hope it continues. Guess you can tell this is a hot button topic of mine |
Originally Posted by konshu
And surely, if we have a tool to make new maps, it will eventually be used to replace the base editor. Or at least one would hope it would be so! lol
Though of course if we can make new maps, we'll need about 10x the file space we presently have. |
I'm just not personally sold that expanded map capabilty for AE will automatically translate into just the ticket for bases. Also, it sounds like a major effort. Too bad work on it didn't start in '05 like you suggested.
Guess I'm with NinjaPirate and others in saying we haven't totally "hit the wall" yet with what we have. There are several things (already suggested elsewhere) that can be done in the short term both decoratively and functionally for bases that would make an awful lot of people happy... if the devs wanted to do that.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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No, I don't think I have room anymore, but it is a good link.|
Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
Do you need to add the link in my signature to yours, Alty? It's really helpful!
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Back to the topic: I think we do this every issue or near issue. We ask, we sometimes get an answer but ultimately we won't know when more changes to bases will be done. I really do think they want to do something with bases and that it is probably one of those items that keeps getting putting on the back burner because perhaps they would have to overhaul the whole thing and the time required to do that just isn't available.
Well hopfully after GR is out they will have some time to do something to the bases, nothing big but hopfully something.
Going to miss the fun and nice people here at CoH. Feel free to add me on PS3/XBox360
PS3X360: OmniNogard
Currently playing: Mass Effect 3(PS3) Minecraft(X360) Skyrim(X360).
I actually think that the merging of the base editor and MA editor wouldn't be a bad thing at all. MA was hugely popular. And if you state there is an update to this that, not only allows you to customize your maps, but also allows to revamp your SG base and use it as a map as well I think would be huge. Along with the fact that it brings bases over from something that is marginally in the game ,like pvp is and attaches it with something that the dev's aren't gonna let fade away.
Along with this I then can see the ability to one day allow npc's to be roaming the bases and interacting with custom written dialog, and maybe one day see destructible items for those destroy your enemy's base missions. But those are just hopes of things to come that would be made easier IMO if the base editor was merged with MA.
Maybe I am just thinking wrong though
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I agree. It would be HUGE.
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Originally Posted by unjust
I actually think that the merging of the base editor and MA editor wouldn't be a bad thing at all. MA was hugely popular. And if you state there is an update to this that, not only allows you to customize your maps, but also allows to revamp your SG base and use it as a map as well I think would be huge.
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I can't think of any mmo that is paid for that has anything like base editing. If there is, someone please point it out,
2nd life doesn't count because its free
I cant think of any competition in the market that would classify any new content of the City of heroes base editor as "sensitive" at least, not that I am aware of...
that said; There isn't any reason to keep us in the dark about what might or might not be going on.
As far as Sunstorm going from red to white, I don't know what that means for us baseophiles. I don't like the sound of it at all, and I would like to hear something... anything before my time is up.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Dark Age of Camelot has housing it in which (back when I was playing) was frequently used as guild housing. (You could set permissions on who could enter your house, and one of the options was 'only people in the same guild as me').|
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
I can't think of any mmo that is paid for that has anything like base editing. If there is, someone please point it out.
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Basically, you could buy different sizes of house (from small cabin to multi-story house), and decorate both the inside and outside (all houses come with a yard). You could set up a Consignment Merchant to sell goods for you (think of it as a Wentworth's, but the only things for sale in it are things you put up for sale), and you could have NPC merchants on the inside of the house that offer various services (weapon/armor repair, selling basic items, etc.).
There was a pretty wide range of decorative items, including trophies that you could fashion out of the remains of some defeated enemies (dragon heads, taxidermied critters, etc.), and you could even put decorative weapons on the walls.
Now, one thing you really couldn't do was change the floor plan. If you had a particular size of house, it had the same floor plan as every other house of that size. But you could change everything else... wall color, floor color, where you wanted your NPCs to stand, etc. On the outside, you could change the wall color, roof color, etc., and even have stuff in your yard. Most people went for a decorative garden or things like that. I, on the other hand, went for 'redneck'. (Outhouse in the side yard, broken wagon wheels near the front porch....)
I was talking with my husband on this issue about base love last night. You know we found out recently that Marketing won't let Posi say much about what they are working on. I know that Sunstorm was pull from his base projects to work on GR and I know that we have asked that if some of the things that he is working on graphicly for that would be avalible to base editors. I know we have our wish list and he wants to give us some of it. Sunstorm has not been able to say yes or no. My question is about our questions that we keep asking, are the devs being stoped by the "evil marketing" department from answering our questions. If so it is just plain anoying, if not well I think that is just a bit rude not to give us any kind of answer.
and yes I am joking about evil marketing department. I put the lable of evil on anyone who is anoying, my coworkers and boss have gotten that lable before then earned it off...
Makes sense. i want information and marketing is in my way. I can understand why they dont let devs talk about GR content, I'm cool with that.
I just dont get why they cant say anything like:
"Hey rabbit, sit tight and count your carrots, new base stuff is in the mill and we will get everyone the details when we can, look for it after GR"
Simple, to the point, and no secrets revealed. I would be so content just to see that. heck, even the "add simple objects to replace floors and walls" really would shut me up and give me plenty to do in the meantime. Didn't Babs do a simple crowd pleaser just recently? walk? Why cant Sunstorm? <I hope he is still with us>
If there was a base editing booster pack I would be all over it.
I guess Ill just have to settle for chasing my tail and spouting my usual madness until GR is out of the way.
btw did the "redneck decorating" allow for numerous broken down cars? I would love to make a junkyard maze!
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Funny thing... now that Star Trek Online is in need of attention because of the coming launch... the updates of Champions Online has been low to non-excistent. Dev's are being pulled away from CO to STO. As STO is a far better and more promising franchise...|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
That is a pretty serious allegation. Do you have any direct proof showing that Cryptic was actively attempting to kill CoH? NCSoft would probably sue the pants off of Jack/Cryptic if there was any such evidence.
I would presume that CoH was suffering from quite a bit of neglect because Jack Emmert was busy working on securing DCU and MUO, and diverting resources to land the 'whales', but that would just be trying to bite off more than he could chew rather than claiming he was trying to commit suicide. From an external perspective (at the time), it would make more sense to build up the CoX customer base and then sell them the idea of transferring over to something like MUO after it was launched. To try and kill your only cash income stream before the other product has launched makes no sense whatsoever. Cryptic probably just couldn't afford to keep the development pace of 2 MMOs but their greed forced them to divert critically needed resources from CoX to MUO. |
That does sound extremly formilliar to me with what Jack Emmert has done before. Doesn't it?
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
Jack who?
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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This was copied from Ultima Online which could do the same.
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Originally Posted by Kierthos
Dark Age of Camelot has housing it in which (back when I was playing) was frequently used as guild housing. (You could set permissions on who could enter your house, and one of the options was 'only people in the same guild as me').
Basically, you could buy different sizes of house (from small cabin to multi-story house), and decorate both the inside and outside (all houses come with a yard). You could set up a Consignment Merchant to sell goods for you (think of it as a Wentworth's, but the only things for sale in it are things you put up for sale), and you could have NPC merchants on the inside of the house that offer various services (weapon/armor repair, selling basic items, etc.). There was a pretty wide range of decorative items, including trophies that you could fashion out of the remains of some defeated enemies (dragon heads, taxidermied critters, etc.), and you could even put decorative weapons on the walls. Now, one thing you really couldn't do was change the floor plan. If you had a particular size of house, it had the same floor plan as every other house of that size. But you could change everything else... wall color, floor color, where you wanted your NPCs to stand, etc. On the outside, you could change the wall color, roof color, etc., and even have stuff in your yard. Most people went for a decorative garden or things like that. I, on the other hand, went for 'redneck'. (Outhouse in the side yard, broken wagon wheels near the front porch....) |
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
Quote:
Statesman and the original lead designer of City of...
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
Jack who?
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- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
I know.
I refuse to acknowledge him.
so... Jack... who?
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
I keep having this image of Oliver Twist and we are the orphans on the outside looking in ("MORE???!!!!...You want MORE??!!!!").
This opposed to say AE which doesn't appear to have any problems garnering both hype and dev attention.
Here you enter a contest announced in mid December and a month and a half later... who cares? It's time to play AE arcs with the devs anyway. (If I sound jealous, it's because I am. We don't even know for sure we have an advocate anymore.)
Most disheartening.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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*shrug* I never played Ultima Online.
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Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
This was copied from Ultima Online which could do the same.
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Of course the devs have a hate base, they use it to store the delicious tears of villain players.