No news for a month?
By
AquaJAWS,
Posted on: 2010-01-05 07:38 in The Global Training Room Test Server
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I'd be happy with something that offered roughly 2/3 the "stuff" of COV. Still, I hope for more. They have more people working on it (don't they?) and are only tackling content for levels 1-20, as opposed to COV's 1-40.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If GR ends up having even half or two-thirds the content of CoV, by my subjective standards, I will consider it to have at least nominally achieved my expectations.
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EDIT: I take back the 1-20 comment. While it's true that you have to leave Praetoria once you're level 20, with the ability to switch sides it's likely they're creating a ton of new content for all level ranges and that content has to allow you to start from different points at the loyalty spectrum and end up at different points.
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Spring Fling (or the VD event) should be heading to test before too long...
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*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
As far as GR is concerned... with the effort they've already put into the Trailer as well as giving it its own web/homepage; I would figure that more info would've bee at least posted to there.
My opinion on GR as an 'expansion' as opposed to an 'issue' (which is still an expansion of sorts) is cautious; at the moment.
When comparing it to either CoH or CoV; which gave us multiple zones (each with enough to give us that 'whole world' feel); a full compliment of ATs and powersets and level 1-50 content... what I've heard of GR falls drastically short of that. It seems more on par with Issue 10 [+ Issue 11].
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Don't assume that they've told us much about GR yet. They have a huge team working on it and they've been doing so for over a year. The scope of this will most assuredly be comparable to COV, not a regular issue. |
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
When comparing it to either CoH or CoV; which gave us multiple zones (each with enough to give us that 'whole world' feel); a full compliment of ATs and powersets and level 1-50 content... what I've heard of GR falls drastically short of that. It seems more on par with Issue 10 [+ Issue 11].
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Plus, it's something they can build on. We've been told that Praetoria will go only to level 20, at which point you have to go either to Paragon City or the Rogue Isles. But no dev has said that's permanent. Conceivably they'll do future issues that add zones to Praetoria and raise the level cap there. Given how fast we get to level 20, it seems like a ton of work to do if they don't have plans for higher level content their going forward.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
Technically, they haven't said that Praetoria only goes to 20... just that a character that starts in Praetoria has to leave to go to Paragon City or the Rogue Isles once they hit level 20.
I'm not saying you're wrong... I'm just saying we don't know one way or the other yet. 
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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This is like watching a preview for a movie and saying it's going to be disappointing because it'll only be a couple minutes long.|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
When comparing it to either CoH or CoV; which gave us multiple zones (each with enough to give us that 'whole world' feel); a full compliment of ATs and powersets and level 1-50 content... what I've heard of GR falls drastically short of that. It seems more on par with Issue 10 [+ Issue 11].
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Or, in other words, we've only seen a glimpse so far, so don't judge it yet.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Even if that was true, you're wrong in comparing GR to CoH or CoV. CoH and CoV were both stand alone games. The only thing they had in common was the engine, game mechanics, and game play. One could buy just CoV and play it. Or one could stay with CoH and enjoy only the hero-side content (this, of course, was changed later).
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
When comparing it to either CoH or CoV; which gave us multiple zones (each with enough to give us that 'whole world' feel); a full compliment of ATs and powersets and level 1-50 content... what I've heard of GR falls drastically short of that. It seems more on par with Issue 10 [+ Issue 11].
CoV was not an EXPANSION. It was its own game. GR, however, is an expansion. An issue is an expansion. The only difference between GR and an issue is that GR requires money. Why? Because it's larger and more grand than an issue.
And just from what we've seen, I think me and you can both agree that GR -is- in fact a lot more than a single issue, hence justifying the payment.
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No, you're confusing their lame marketing with reality. CoV was basically new zones and ATs in a shared world. Yes, at first they tried to market it as a separate game, but all that did was artificially restrict you to a certain subset of zones. CoV runs on the same servers, uses the same game engine, and heavily reuses a great deal of art assets from CoH. It was a separate game in the same way that GR will be a separate game, i.e. not at all.|
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Even if that was true, you're wrong in comparing GR to CoH or CoV. CoH and CoV were both stand alone games. The only thing they had in common was the engine, game mechanics, and game play. One could buy just CoV and play it. Or one could stay with CoH and enjoy only the hero-side content (this, of course, was changed later).
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And of course the utter failure of the marketing resulted in rolling it back in with CoH. Poof! Now it's not a separate game! You can't buy COV any more, and none of their official marketing materials that I've seen in the last year refer to it separately. Navigate to www.cityofvillains.com and you get redirected to cityofheroes.com.
If it was a truly separate game, they wouldn't be able to magically merge it with COH with the equivalent of the stroke of a pen.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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Hmm, good point. We know that people will be able to switch sides at any level and that GR is going to have a super challenging new endgame. For all we know, much of that new content could take place in Praetoria!
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Technically, they haven't said that Praetoria only goes to 20... just that a character that starts in Praetoria has to leave to go to Paragon City or the Rogue Isles once they hit level 20.
I'm not saying you're wrong... I'm just saying we don't know one way or the other yet. |
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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During the HeroCon demo, they made it a point to highlight the fact that Praetoria doesn't have WarWalls. I assumed this implied Praetoria actually had different sections intended for different level ranges, and that therefore Praetoria will either have content from 1-50, or will at least have the potential to contain level 1-50 content eventually (its theoretically possible the content will be focused on 1-20 and level 50 end game, with later issues expanding on the content in other areas).|
Originally Posted by Sardan
Hmm, good point. We know that people will be able to switch sides at any level and that GR is going to have a super challenging new endgame. For all we know, much of that new content could take place in Praetoria!
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If Praetoria was really intended for just level 1-20 content, pointing out Praetoria has no WarWalls would make about as much sense as pointing out that Mercy Island has no WarWalls.
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Considering past experience and let down I am just not getting my hopes up on this. I dont think its going to even be 1/4 of what CoV had to offer. Too many broken promises.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
This is like watching a preview for a movie and saying it's going to be disappointing because it'll only be a couple minutes long.
Or, in other words, we've only seen a glimpse so far, so don't judge it yet. |
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Broken promises? Such as? I'd like to hear some. You sound like you have a huge list ready.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Considering past experience and let down I am just not getting my hopes up on this. I dont think its going to even be 1/4 of what CoV had to offer. Too many broken promises.
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So far all they've really promised is a new starting zone, ultra mode, two new powersets, and the ability to side-switch.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Personally I hope they give you several options. A player might not want to go to praetoria but want to actually start a brute or stalker at lvl 1 on blue side. From what I been hearing it wont be possible. I remember reading something about exemplary heroes and villains. Those who stay bad or good the whole time. If they dont give us the option I mentioned you might not be able to get that on certain toons.
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Originally Posted by Sardan
Hmm, good point. We know that people will be able to switch sides at any level and that GR is going to have a super challenging new endgame. For all we know, much of that new content could take place in Praetoria!
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CoP, city vault, need I go on?
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Broken promises? Such as? I'd like to hear some. You sound like you have a huge list ready.
So far all they've really promised is a new starting zone, ultra mode, two new powersets, and the ability to side-switch. |
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Yes please, since two things doesn't constitute "so many," and unless I'm mistaken those were under Jack's reign and not our current leadership.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
CoP, city vault, need I go on?
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Base raids were another thing as well. I could go on with this but I am not. The point is they signed checks that their butts couldnt cash. Thats why I am not getting my hopes up with this. Not trying to be all doom and gloom, I am just being realistic here. Some of you might be wowed by the power customization and crayons for the powers but I wasnt. Some of you might have been wowed by the AE but I wasnt because it did more harm to the game then it helped. Some of you might be easily entertained by the weak content that was in Cimerora and the M.Bison TF/SF, I wasnt because it wasnt dev worthy content like the previous issues like with Striga, Hollows, Croatoa. Thats what I mean. I am setting the bar really high because at this point we are owed this dev worthy content. But I am not getting my hopes up because its going to fall short like all the past issues have been.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yes please, since two things doesn't constitute "so many," and unless I'm mistaken those were under Jack's reign and not our current leadership.
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Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
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Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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That's not setting the bar high; that's setting the bar sideways and complaining that the devs won't give you a pole dance.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Base raids were another thing as well. I could go on with this but I am not. The point is they signed checks that their butts couldnt cash. Thats why I am not getting my hopes up with this. Not trying to be all doom and gloom, I am just being realistic here. Some of you might be wowed by the power customization and crayons for the powers but I wasnt. Some of you might have been wowed by the AE but I wasnt because it did more harm to the game then it helped. Some of you might be easily entertained by the weak content that was in Cimerora and the M.Bison TF/SF, I wasnt because it wasnt dev worthy content like the previous issues like with Striga, Hollows, Croatoa. Thats what I mean. I am setting the bar really high because at this point we are owed this dev worthy content. But I am not getting my hopes up because its going to fall short like all the past issues have been.
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As I have seen many others post...|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's not setting the bar high; that's setting the bar sideways and complaining that the devs won't give you a pole dance.
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OMFG...you owe me a new monitor and keyboard, because your post caused me to spew Coke out my nose due to near-fatal laughter. Seriously! :^)
Basically too many 50's to count, but I'm generally a brute/scrapper/tank kind of guy.
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Oh, that's just plain awesome. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's not setting the bar high; that's setting the bar sideways and complaining that the devs won't give you a pole dance.
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Yeah, that one got a great laugh out of me.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's not setting the bar high; that's setting the bar sideways and complaining that the devs won't give you a pole dance.
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I have to agree that while the Dev's have said they'd do things they didn't end up doing for some reason (like the already mentioned CoP, City Vault and the mess that is base raids) but those things are small in number in comparison to the fufilled promises. Many of the perceived "broken promises" were actually, "we players got something into our heads and what was delivered wasn't as cool as what we'd dreamed up." The hype surrounding the latest round of Rikti Events (which, honestly have been a bit of a let down) are a prime example of Dev/Mod actions leading to wilder and wilder player speculation that led to an eventual let down in what was finally delivered. I won't say that the Dev/Mod/Marketing staff is blameless in these incidents, but they do not carry the bulk of the blame, that falls right on us players for letting our expectations grow beyond reasonable limits. If the Devs/Mods are to be faulted in these cases it is for either overhyping or underreporting information or failing to slap down the speculation(s) with a simple "no, that is not what it planned at all," not the the product itself.
Edit: Negative Repped for this post with the comment "The Bulk of the blame is not on the players." Well, if that is true, maybe you, Mr/Ms Negative Rep would like to actually post how YOUR perceptions, YOUR ideas and YOUR thinking that something will be better than stated by the Devs/Mods is not entirely YOUR fault? If you speculate beyond what is stated by someone, your speculations are your problem, not theirs.
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Ryu cites items like CoP, City Vault, and base raids as "broken promises". A less childish way of looking at this would be to acknowledge that the devs are just people doing their best, not malicious Norse gods, and a shockingly large percentage of software projects fail. Businesses run on schedules and can only alot a certain amount of time for non-critical tasks. |
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Considering past experience and let down I am just not getting my hopes up on this. I dont think its going to even be 1/4 of what CoV had to offer. Too many broken promises.
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In fact, Ryu's post illustrates why the CoH devs tend to keep mum on things far longer than we'd like. They're crucified on the forums if they talk about something that ends up delayed, scaled down, or even just takes a long time. If I remember right, it took about 6 or 8 months of steady work to do power customization, but the project was greenlighted nearly a year and a half before it was finally released. Can you imagine the drama that would have ensued if BaB had talked about power customization when it was approved? "Where IS it then? Nothing but broken promises!"
And with all that time for speculation to escalate, tons of players would have been disappointed when it finally was released.Of course, none of that changes my desire to know more about GR nowwwwwww, dagnabbit!
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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That's why I pressed him for a more extensive list. I'd say 3 things out of, what, 10 jillion features is a pretty good track record.|
Originally Posted by Sardan
Ryu cites items like CoP, City Vault, and base raids as "broken promises". A less childish way of looking at this would be to acknowledge that the devs are just people doing their best, not malicious Norse gods, and a shockingly large percentage of software projects fail. Businesses run on schedules and can only alot a certain amount of time for non-critical tasks.
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The rest of what Ryu said was all opinion-based. Ryu personally not liking a new task force doesn't mean the devs are lying or failing to deliver.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Just a quickie on the thought that an expansion that's bigger than one issue justifies payment. To me, that justification hinges on the cost.
If it is the same as purchasing the CoV or CoH stand-alones (or the combo packs; GvE or Architect Editions); then I fully expect the GR expansion to be on equal footing with either stand-alone or combo; at applicable price point.
I don't feel that expectation is too high, whether you'll agree or not.
With the current short-list (sneak peek... I acknowledge there may be more); it is the equivalent of Issue 10 (a massive issue which boasted a huge (and well populated) map, many contacts, co-op play, 15 levels of access, a self-promoting rewards system, multiple ports to PC and the RI; trainers, tailors and difficulty adjusters and a TF that had real-time effect on the whole of the CoH universe... for free). + Issue 11; which introduced 2 power-sets and a system which allowed players to experience existing content they may have missed for whatever reason. Combined, they provided 100+ badges and allowed for retrieving missed badges.
At this point, this sums up GR; a big [well populated] map, 2 power-sets, 20 levels, co-op play and a system that allows players to experience existing content that they've missed because of faction restrictions. (I'm sure that GR offers more of the above listed items; but to what extent is up to speculation.
[Note: At least the intended graphics push is optional for GR; whereas I10 and I12 upped graphics/[connection] requirement without option and without warning.]
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Sure, perceived value is subjective. Player reaction will be all over the map. Some people would pay $40 just for side-switching and everything else is gravy. I'm sure there will be others that look at the whole thing and just go "meh". |
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Just a quickie on the thought that an expansion that's bigger than one issue justifies payment. To me, that justification hinges on the cost.
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The one part of your reasoning that needs critiquing is this:
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| At this point, this sums up GR |
That said, you left out one big thing the devs talked about at Comicon: GR will include a new end game that will be far more difficult than any current level 50 content and will include a way to make level 50 characters more powerful but without raising the level cap. I'm guessing that'll be a lot of content, not just one big Hami-style encounter because they made it clear that the end game stuff was a major part of GR.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
So with the devs holding back all this content we should have been getting I expect more missions and such than what CoV had by itself. I dont see this being a problem at all. Considering how easy it is to create an arc in the MA and the devs have superior tools than that we should be getting lots of stuff for the time we havent gotten anything tangible. As for as powerset swapping goes just about everything I ever wanted is there just about so a few more ports isnt going to make my day at all. I think at the end of the day GR has to be bigger than CoV in terms of real content and to make up for all the empty promises the devs never delievered on (CoP, Base Functionality, and City Vault).