The "Gated Communities" in CoH
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-12-31 24:24 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Diplomatic as ever, but not entirely without some truth. any game that has been around for over a year is going to have a established community, if you just pop in and hide in the corner, you are gating yourself out. The reason i dislike the term "gated" community is that it implies exclusion, there are some twits, there are in every game, but coh does have a reputation that i try to do my part to justify of being a really new player friendly game, but we cant be welcoming if we don't see you. So its a two-directional onus(for some reason , that sounds dirty). vets should help new players, but new players have to let vets know where they are.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Kinda like life.
functional people figure it out and proceed accordingly. |
as the real world analogy goes, you cant complain about not enjoying a dance if all you did was stand in the corner.
Yeah, "onus" is forever going to be a tough one to insert without drawing some snickers, methinks. Stinks, but what can you do.
Ahem. I see and can dig what the OP is talking about, but I believe CoH is VERY newbie-friendly in this regard, compared to some other games. Even though I am a vet, I have no ties to any particular SG or established group and very few (if any) in-game friends I can call on, yet I can create new characters and solo or PuG as I desire. I talk on some Global channels but I've never gotten a team from them at all, or even seen any of them in-game for that matter. (Well okay once I saw Zombie Man in the RWZ, but he was using Broadcast to fill up a team anyway, heh.) For team-centric content it's just a matter of making yourself available, personally I don't care much about T/SFs but I certainly see the Broadcasts looking for others to join and get the tells as well. Sure it can be more of an issue for smaller-pop servers and playing at odd times, but honestly if you're in that situation I'm not sure ANY community no matter how open could help you, hopefully the benefits outweigh the problems.
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Well, when I started playing this game, I "didn't know" the forums existed - in that although there was something on the updater, I had absolutely ZERO idea what the purpose was for the forums. You see, this was (and still is) my first MMO, so I was literally too dumb to recognize that the little book that came with the game was not my best source of info on how to play. Nor was I used to seeking a social network on-line....|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Don't know the forums exist? It's on the updater every time you launch it. Basically every MMO has an official forum. They don't get a free pass on that one, that's just lazy.
Don't know the channels exist? Well, if they're searching for people to play with, typically they go to the official forums and complain that the game is dead and there's no people. And what's on the official forums? People! And what do the people here do? Post a bunch of examples of how you can find more people, which typically includes a bunch of channels where you can find people in-game. Shocking, I know. |
So I do think that vets, especially vet forum posters who understand all that stuff about using forums to find out stuff not covered in the manual or the in-game help - can easily lose sight of the fact that going to the forums is not a "natural" thing to do for someone new to the MMO genre.
And just based on the posts I've seen over the years - we have a *lot* of new players who were just like me- ignorant of all those MMO behaviours that others take for granted.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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I think a large part of the problem lies with the lack of attention that is given to introduce new (and old) players to the concept of "global channels". There are very few that use server names in their titles while being private but...it's a challenge just to get someone to understand the tricks to even start looking for them.|
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
Is this a problem?
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It's insular insomuch in that one of the most effective methods for getting players together is functionally resistant to people that would be understandably unacquainted with it.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
i've pointed this out in the occasional "newbie" thread. the point being that though some server pops are relatively low, the communities are active and fun, and folks will tell you "yeah, stop on by and we'll take care of you". this is not a lie, if you hook up with the regulars on the server, they do take you in, shelter you, feed you, and become good friends. the problem is, finding these groups. not that the members don't want you to, just that i think they forget how isolated they have made themselves from the public facing communications of the server.
Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.
screw your joke, i want "FREEM"
I actively avoid affiliating with ANY Guild/Clan/SG/Corporation/Alliance/whatever. ANY of them! I simply hate the way they are.
So as you might expect, my play experience is far different from the one that all the hoity-toity connection-ridden wine-cooler-drinking SG vets have. But you know what? I still have fun! I meet tons of people, play with every playstyle, do whatever sounds fun at the moment, help new players whenever I spot one in need.. anything!
I use broadcast (as if that helps), I fill extra spots in my team with global channelers, I use a polite-invitation macro all over the /search list to pick up everyone, anyone with the slightest desire to play with others! I don't need those clique-goers, I'm a champion of the proletariat, baby!
And when I don't feel like putting in all that effort, I might as well play something else. Nobody is going to pick me.
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*look over shoulder* Quit spying on me!
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
as the real world analogy goes, you cant complain about not enjoying a dance if all you did was stand in the corner.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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wallflower!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
*look over shoulder* Quit spying on me!
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fix'd |
Originally Posted by Mylia
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Comic and Hero/Villain Culture
Saturday January 29th, 2005 (12:37 PM) ~ Monday August 9th, 2010
Those Who Lived It Will Remember Long after your Ban Hammer Crumbles and the servers flicker dead.
We Will Remember This One Moment In Time! ~ Shadow Ravenwolf
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They aren't all like that.|
Originally Posted by Chompie
I actively avoid affiliating with ANY Guild/Clan/SG/Corporation/Alliance/whatever. ANY of them! I simply hate the way they are.
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Like what? It doesn't matter like what. That's the point. There is a tremendous variety out there.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
A good SG or group of friends makes all the difference in these games. I played on DAoC's Gaheris server for a bit, and I think the population peaked at about 130 people at primetime. It never felt empty though, because I had a great guild and decent alliance. It was a surprisingly fun server to play on, and I sort of miss its great community now and then.
CoX feels a lot more empty for me because I haven't made any strong social connections yet. The problem I have in CoX is it's a lot harder to even see that these groups of players even exist because it is so heavily instanced. This game relies very heavily on the forums for connecting people (or luck when it comes to private global channel communities), and I sort of miss being able to discover guilds in-game simply by seeing guild teams doing stuff, or using the search tool to find guilds with members on during the times that I play.
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The global channel "Help" comes as part of the default game set up when you first start. I have left it active in all my chat windows, as I like to be able to help people... but on Union I have seen one use of it in the last let's say a year. I really don't think we are getting that many genuine newbies any more. The population numbers have tended to be pretty consistent, and flat for some time now, and I personally believe it's because we are down to the long term, dedicated core of players. Mission Architect to my mind brought some of the former player base back, but they were mostly focused on power levelling, so any help requested was purely in the associated MA channels, and on how to "Frm teh xpz"...| What about the new players who don't even know what a global *IS*, let alone how to search for one? |
Thus I do tend to agree with the OP that one of the problems is that server numbers are down, which makes some parts of the game rather more unappealing. For instance, base building is almost impossible with just one or two people (the investment needed to meet the Energy requirements for all the Teleports Hero side in particular are horrendous), but there's still such a residual fear of people looting bases (even with the access limitations now) that people aren't willing to just entrust anyone with that privilege. You may laugh, but I actually saw someone on Union try and do a base scam the other day!
But in general, I don't think there's all that much content that can't be seen ever by the average retiring wallflower; off the top of my head, only the Master Of Statesman's Task Force badge can't be done with a random pick up team (Both MoRSF and MoReich are much, much easier) but of course the Task Force itself can. The Sewer Trial even now is still quite hard, I actually went on one the other day, the first time in 2 years, and even though we failed, but I think a second run, now that people understood what it involved, would have been successful. And you can always fall straight to the bottom and see the blob no matter what
The Hamidon appears in another task force, and Hami-O's have largely been replaced... nope, off the top of my head, I really can't think of a completely closed door, unlike high end raiding in most other games...Whether you can actually get 8 of anyone to do anything twice now is a different question. It's true that, human nature being what it is, the most popular people are always going to be able to call in more support at any time than the average Joe. And that in turn depends on how much time you are willing to put into getting noticed, and being available for other people. In the past, there was the player base to support everyone; as there was a rich tapestry of people and their needs out there. These days, whilst it's easy for me (I'm relatively well know, and time rich enough to get into most things on Union) unless you're prepared to really socialize, there just aren't enough people who are going to want to run let's say the Shadow Shard again without some other reason like enjoying your company for 10 hours. The servers are getting old, and people naturally want to retire into the games twilight years with people they are comfortable with, to strain an analogy!
It's not that people are elitist as such; believe me, you might not think it, but CoH actually has the most mature community of any of the games I've played or been serious involved in (Ultima Online, Lineage II beta, World of Warcraft, EvE Online just in the MMO scene). As long as you avoid the cybering in the Ski Chalet... seriously, what is up with that?! Every winter I've gone there, and there's someone trying to talk about sex next to the candy man! But anyway... the simple facts are people have gotten comfortable here, with what they know, that's all.
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How do any of these ... |
Originally Posted by Chompie
I actively avoid affiliating with ANY Guild/Clan/SG/Corporation/Alliance/whatever. ANY of them! I simply hate the way they are.
So as you might expect, my play experience is far different from the one that all the hoity-toity connection-ridden wine-cooler-drinking SG vets have. But you know what? I still have fun! I meet tons of people, play with every playstyle, do whatever sounds fun at the moment, help new players whenever I spot one in need.. anything! I use broadcast (as if that helps), I fill extra spots in my team with global channelers, I use a polite-invitation macro all over the /search list to pick up everyone, anyone with the slightest desire to play with others! I don't need those clique-goers, I'm a champion of the proletariat, baby! And when I don't feel like putting in all that effort, I might as well play something else. Nobody is going to pick me. |
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| "Guild/Clan/SG/Corporation/Alliance/whatever" |
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"have fun! I meet tons of people, play with every playstyle, do whatever sounds fun at the moment, help new players whenever I spot one in need.. anything! I use broadcast (as if that helps), I fill extra spots in my team with global channelers, I use a polite-invitation macro all over the /search list to pick up everyone, anyone with the slightest desire to play with others! I don't need those clique-goers, I'm a champion of the proletariat, baby! And when I don't feel like putting in all that effort, I might as well play something else. Nobody is going to pick me." |
I agree with the OP that this game can sometimes, inadvertently, present a very unfriendly face to new players. Some time ago on Guardian, I received a blind invite from a player. On a whim, I accepted. He said he needed help, and it turned out that he had failed a timed mission, and didn't know that you have to talk to the contact to clear it. So I explained this, told him how to put me on friends, send tells, etc. He thanked me and added that most people on the server weren't helpful. In retrospect I can see how it must have seemed that way to him: Everyone on hide, decline all blind invites (accompanied by a rude comment), no global channels or friends, etc.
It's easy for people with 5 years of paid-up game time (not vets - a vet is an experienced and knowledgeable player), pampered by vet attacks, a billion vet respecs, all-SG and global channel teams to claim that everything is easy and if you don't get it you must be stupid or lazy. EVE Online, which is about five zillion times less newbie-friendly than this game, at least dumps your character in a newbie corp (SG) which can serve as a starting place to meet other people.
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Well, to be fair, it's on a separate tab so if you're displaying the global tab, you're not seeing Help chat.|
Originally Posted by Bovine_Avenger
The global channel "Help" comes as part of the default game set up when you first start. I have left it active in all my chat windows, as I like to be able to help people...
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| I really don't think we are getting that many genuine newbies any more. The population numbers have tended to be pretty consistent, and flat for some time now, and I personally believe it's because we are down to the long term, dedicated core of players. |
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| Whether you can actually get 8 of anyone to do anything twice now is a different question. It's true that, human nature being what it is, the most popular people are always going to be able to call in more support at any time than the average Joe. And that in turn depends on how much time you are willing to put into getting noticed, and being available for other people. In the past, there was the player base to support everyone; as there was a rich tapestry of people and their needs out there. These days, whilst it's easy for me (I'm relatively well know, and time rich enough to get into most things on Union) unless you're prepared to really socialize, there just aren't enough people who are going to want to run let's say the Shadow Shard again without some other reason like enjoying your company for 10 hours. The servers are getting old, and people naturally want to retire into the games twilight years with people they are comfortable with, to strain an analogy! |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
As a Virtuevian (GOOOOOOO CATGIRLS!) and someone who has yet to get trenchcoats yet... (Even though I got the game late September and it's already January...) I find that getting involved in community events helps a ton.
I had two very lucky breaks on Virtue my first day there.
- The Cape was having a show in Mercy Island by Kalinda, which in turn got me a Global Channel invite which eventually lead to many hilarious adventures. (Such as Strike Force: FABULOUS! in which GM_V_Franklin had to look at my huge SS/WP Brute in a manthong and cowboy boots as he tried to figure out why the mission was stuck in a loop... Don't ask, it was a new years thing. There were drinking game rules, even.)
- I was grabbed and dragged into an RP situation in the Pocket D by the leader of a very large SG that just so happened to fit my character concept entirely, which lead to my meeting most of my friends on the server.
I realize roleplay isn't for everyone. (As someone who thrives off storytelling, it's perfect for me, but not so perfect for others) But finding your "niche" in the game is important.
Also, running up and grabbing people who haven't found their niche is also really important. If Chel just ignored my toon (who is 8 feet tall with all the body sliders up so he's kind of hard to miss), then I would have probably never gotten to 50. CoH is seriously the first MMO I've played in which I've reached the level cap. (I couldn't even get to Outland in WoW, Maple Story and it's ilk are right out, and I bought my rings in zOMG so that doesn't really count persay...)
...But yeah. If you see a new player, go up and interact with them. Especially if they can spell!
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I think you've jumped to the wrong conclusion here. I always monitored the Help channel and did my best to help out other players with questions. Some were new players, some were vets. The Help channel was always active up until the point the devs changed the slash command from /help to /hc. At least on my server, that instantly killed the channel activity. Prior to that there were times I had to remove the help channel from my chat window because it got too busy. Since the change, my experience has been like yours: Weeks or months go by without a single peep from anyone on that channel.
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Originally Posted by Bovine_Avenger
The global channel "Help" comes as part of the default game set up when you first start. I have left it active in all my chat windows, as I like to be able to help people... but on Union I have seen one use of it in the last let's say a year. I really don't think we are getting that many genuine newbies any more.
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I agree with the OP. I am now an 18 month veteran with several accounts, 400+ alts, 14 lvl 50 toons but I still don't feel that I can get into any social networks in this game. When my friends who play WoW brag about their strong community, I think about switching (but then I tried and travel was soooo slow so I couldn't do it).
I have found one good SG on Freedom and one on Justice (I am on all servers).
I have tried building SGs but they break down quickly unless you commit 6+ hours per day to maintaining them.
I have found one global friend I actually care about and communicate with. I have two globals I know in real life that I play a lot with. Usually it is we three that form a PuG and do something.
Perhaps its just my altitis that prevents me from sticking around long enough with one toon to get social.
I have filled up my allowed number of channels (why so few?) on every account but I probably have the wrong ones on the low-traffic serves, only Virtue LFG Alpha and "Freedom" works for me.
When I want to play with others and not multibox, I am usually stuck on Freedom or Virtue because that is where you can find PuGs on lvl 20+ easily.
Recently, due to the free server transfers, I have changed the toons on Freedom and virtue for a refreshing change of toons to play in teams.
I play about 10-30 hrs per week, about 70% blueside, 30% redside.
What should I do to get more into the social part of the game?
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That actually sounds like a real good idea.
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
. EVE Online, which is about five zillion times less newbie-friendly than this game, at least dumps your character in a newbie corp (SG) which can serve as a starting place to meet other people.
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Long post made short:
Extroverts will be able to find friends and people to run with no problem. The opportunities are there whether you know about global channels or now.
Introverts will solo forever and either move on eventually or be pulled into the gravity well of some clique or another eventually.
Everyone in between... Well, their experiences will fall in between the two
To try too hard to forcefully change this is going to annoy the extroverts who don't need it and scare off the introverts who it's kind of aimed at helping.
The bulk of my in game time is at some of the weirdest, deadest times around... And I still get blind offers to join teams regularly. I'm an introvert though so I generally stick to slowly, painfully levelling solo... But if it wasn't for my own inhibitions and reluctance, the opportunity is definitely around.
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This is where I am. Well, I had a pretty big network of friends back in The Day, from about i0-i7 or so, complete with SGs and all that... and then about 95% of my friends left the game or started playing once a week. I've had pretty lousy luck with SGs since, with most groups I join very rarely having enough people on to team during my active hours (and usually having an average 'last logged in' date of about 9 months ago). So, for the last year or so, I've been going it alone, just grabbing PUGs or forming my own. Well, okay, I'm in some of the big Virtue global channels, but I'm not really involved enough in them that they serve as much other than more people for me to yell at when forming a PUG.|
Originally Posted by Adelie
I may be the exception, but I've been playing since issue 1, had a few stints with social networks early on, but since Issue 8 or so I've been exclusively playing on pick up groups I make and actually avoiding any real heavy social involvement. I don't join networks, or supergroups (unless its a supergroup for a themed character, but even that is rare nowadays)
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The initial transition was pretty painful. I was used to being able to just log in and grab seven of my closest friends for whatever I wanted to do. Without that, I came very close to quitting the game--I generally dislike soloing unless I'm on a Brute or MM, and I was getting very, very bored. After about six months of alternatively glaring at the game in disappointment and whining to people, I eventually figured out to just form my own teams.
I've found that you can do pretty darn well for yourself by just forming your own PUGs, on Virtue at least. I can usually get anything short of a Shard TF together on a whim unless it's the middle of the night. The only place that not being in a big web of friends or a SG has kind of hurt me is RP. Any time I manage to get decent RP with strangers, either on groups or in Pocket D, I can be reasonably certain that I'll never see that character again. Makes it kind of hard to advance a character's story. The RP thing is probably a bit exacerbated by my preference for RP'ing in missions rather than in SG bases or the D (I'm playing a superhero, not a professional conversationalist), but still.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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That is another gated thing I am afraid. The last time I checked, the help channel was still not one of the channel buttons in the chat window, where you'd expect a help channel to be.|
Originally Posted by Bovine_Avenger
The global channel "Help" comes as part of the default game set up when you first start. I have left it active in all my chat windows, as I like to be able to help people... but on Union I have seen one use of it in the last let's say a year. I really don't think we are getting that many genuine newbies any more.
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I thus assumed it has to be joined, and tried joining the channel "Help". Got a message the channel is full and cannot be joined thus. Though that is stupid and gave up.
Only very recently I accidentally learned that you have to use /hc to talk on it, and that even that was new to most because it used to be /h but changed somehow.
Of all channels, the help channel should be easiest to talk on imo, not need a / command.
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Yes. It is obvious that the current implementation of the Help channel is a complete & utter failure. This needs some serious dev attention.
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Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
Of all channels, the help channel should be easiest to talk on imo, not need a / command.
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Short answer: No.
Slightly longer answer: The OP is wrong.
Moderate Length answer: I've existed "outside of the gate" since the game launched. I tried a couple of "social groups" here and there and got kicked out of most of them. Now I still sit happily outside the gate and play on nothing but PuGs. Having a blast! I see no issue here. As long as I can use teamseek to form a full team any time I want to... I see no issue. I have never once been bereft of team when I wanted one, and I am a part of NO social groups. Also anyone that wants to argue that I get teammates easier because of my name.... only a couple people actually know my global name, and they hardly ever use it anyways. I play almost entirely on PuGs with random strangers every time, and the "quality" of my teams have never been wanting.
Any 'gated community' that doesn't actively solicit new blood will itself wither away, as members do leave over time. Any channel/coalition has to have some level of recruitment ongoing if they want to survive in the long run.