The "Gated Communities" in CoH
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-12-31 24:24 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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If this were true, we would only have SG's run by troglodytes living in their mother's basement. Fortunately, it is not true.
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Originally Posted by Drugfree Boy
I have tried building SGs but they break down quickly unless you commit 6+ hours per day to maintaining them.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Sometimes gates are put up to keep things from getting out, not to keep things from coming in.
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This right HERE!!!! everything posted in here, is the reason why my server I have been a part of since 05, and many other servers have died for a lot of people. People on pinnacle, mainly vets have all done this exact thing and now that people have left for other games or other servers, these communities have died off, there are a few specific ones that are still alive but that is really it. |
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
It's my contention that the game is vastly different for people who belong to strong social networks and those who don't. This is probably obvious to a lot of long-term players. If you have membership in some of the key global chat channels, all of a sudden teaming opportunities, the opportunities to take part in task forces and raids (at almost all hours) or even to PL your alts to 22 (so you can slot SOs) become things you take for granted.
The game is vastly different for those who aren't socially active. If they are on a team oriented character, their sole source of fast xp could be pick up groups which vary in quality from good to very poor. Supergroups can help, but I find that many SGs (not all of them, but many of them) are former shells of what they once were. Long time players have many characters, and many SGs are often just warehouses for alts. As the game has matured, I've noticed that many veterans have carved away a social niche for themselves, surrounding themselves with people with similar experience and in-game motivations. This isn't a bad thing, but these niches are often hard to crack. Public chat channels still exist and some do thrive, but I've seen more than a fair share of them become inactive or, worse yet, degrade to a level that they are only slightly better than broadcast and completely worthless as a teaming mechanism. I have no real agenda in bringing up this topic, but I can't help but feel that this phenomenon is somewhat related to the declaration by many players that some servers are virtually empty. Certainly player populations on the smaller servers can shrink down to a handful of players in off peak hours, but I wonder if it's because those players are teaming with friends on other servers, finding teaming opportunities through their social network. Also, I think CoH/V could be a somewhat unwelcoming game for a new player. The player base is mature and somewhat insular (which is somewhat expected for a mature game). I think it's somewhat difficult for a new player who might only have a handful of characters in their teens to match up with a group that have multiple 50s. I know there are players who go out of their way to help a new player, but eventually, even they want to play the characters they enjoy and not get stuck "baby-sitting" all the time. Is this a problem? Probably not. It's anyone's guess on how widespread this is. And this post is based on only one player's observation, so it just comes down to my opinion. I have absolutely zero scientific fact or data that can back up my observations. However, I am a little concerned about how truly welcoming this game is for new players. Admission into one of these "gated communities" can often open up a world of opportunity for a new player, while a player without membership could see a mostly empty landscape. |
Now since people have done this, they aren't really open to finding new friends, new sgs, and new channels. Because of this a server may seem dead, when it is not dead, but people just aren't playing with other people anymore.
Really unfortunate thing, and anyone who does want to look for a new sg/channel/friends just transfers to a more popular server like freedom or infinity and the other server is still pretty lame lol.
I am going no where with this, I think my brain farted rofl, I just wanted to mention this.
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
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Then it is obvious I did something wrong. I set up a Guild Portal site, ran weekly events, tried to be on for 6 hours a day, found an American (I am European) to run the SG along with me and cover other hours of the day. We got to about 100 members, but as soon as I switched down to being online maybe 1-2 hours every other day, things broke down in about 4-6 weeks. Now there are just 2 members that play at all that I don't know in real life.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
If this were true, we would only have SG's run by troglodytes living in their mother's basement. Fortunately, it is not true.
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Any tips what I could have done differently? We had three leaders: me, the American and a RL friend of mine who was on maybe an hour every three days.
Also, I envy people being able to find or form PuGs any time of the day. I find it the exception on every server besides Freedom and Virtue and I constantly friend (not global though) everyone in my PuG on any other server, only to usually never be online at the same time as they are ever again.
There are some success with finding sewer teams and maybe even KR/Hollows teams on the nine other servers, but I find it very very hard to find 20+ teams, for example on Pinnacle or Liberty.
Justice is somewhat better than the other servers, but not much.
liberty? are you on LB? being on there improves your life quite a lot. if only to see what happens to me when i don't have my edit button...bad things man, bad things.
Has anyone suggested a Global Channel 'TIP' for the loading screen yet? I thought that's what the Tip screens were for (and bad puns, naturally) ?
Has anyone suggested a Global Channel 'TIP' for the loading screen yet? I thought that's what the Tip screens were for (and bad puns, naturally) ?
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What server do you play on? I'm a member of four different global channels on Virtue all of which are open to the public. Between them I usually don't lack for teaming opportunities. If these are "gated communities" then where is the gate? |
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
However, I am a little concerned about how truly welcoming this game is for new players. Admission into one of these "gated communities" can often open up a world of opportunity for a new player, while a player without membership could see a mostly empty landscape.
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I may be a vet, but I don't PL my new alts. I run them through the newbie zones and I can see that there is plenty of team forming chatter in the broadcast channels as well as SG recruiting going on. It doesn't take much effort to *become* a part of the community and learn about global channels and such. A person unwilling to take even those simple first steps is not the victim of an unwelcoming game.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
I know.... we should....
MERGE THE SERVERS!
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Wouldnt that be like admitting that the game's official tools for teamfinding are a failure though?|
Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess
Has anyone suggested a Global Channel 'TIP' for the loading screen yet? I thought that's what the Tip screens were for (and bad puns, naturally) ?
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Originally Posted by Zem
What server do you play on? I'm a member of four different global channels on Virtue all of which are open to the public. Between them I usually don't lack for teaming opportunities. If these are "gated communities" then where is the gate?
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And yes, I bet you can still have fun that way at the right server at the right time. But the point was there being a difference in having, e.g., those channels added and not knowing of those things.
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Originally Posted by Westley
I know.... we should....
MERGE THE SERVERS! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Usually I disagree...but when put this way I think it is a pretty good idea!
/signed
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Well, for starters, let me say that getting an SG up to 100 members at all is a notable accomplishment. I think my SG never got above 35 or so. Still, we ended up in the top 40 on Infinity without any farming and we're still there.|
Originally Posted by Drugfree Boy
Then it is obvious I did something wrong. I set up a Guild Portal site, ran weekly events, tried to be on for 6 hours a day, found an American (I am European) to run the SG along with me and cover other hours of the day. We got to about 100 members, but as soon as I switched down to being online maybe 1-2 hours every other day, things broke down in about 4-6 weeks. Now there are just 2 members that play at all that I don't know in real life.
Any tips what I could have done differently? We had three leaders: me, the American and a RL friend of mine who was on maybe an hour every three days. |
From what you describe, I'm guessing you had a relatively high turnover rate and it required constant attention/recruiting on your part to maintain the population. Clearly you were the key man in building and maintaining that population. The next step would be to make it self-sustaining such that the other members get involved in recruiting/retaining members. Unfortunately, while I can see WHAT needs to happen, I can't really say HOW to manage it.
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| Also, I envy people being able to find or form PuGs any time of the day. I find it the exception on every server besides Freedom and Virtue and I constantly friend (not global though) everyone in my PuG on any other server, only to usually never be online at the same time as they are ever again. |
FYI, I find the server friend list pretty much useless. People have too many alts. I have too many alts. The only time I use it is when on a team and someone DC's. I immediately friend them so it will tell me when they are back on.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
To everyone arguing about sgs and player base in them, from my experience there are two ways to go about them. (primary ways, not saying the only ways.)
1. If a sg is spamming in Atlas/Pi/ any other main city, they will need lots of tending because you then have a sg with a bunch of members yes, but if those members don't get along well or never meet eachother through events, the sg dies and requires a lot of work.
2. If a sg starts out with 3+ friends, good friends, and they invite their own friends to the sg plus people they meet in missions, they are more likely to survive because the sg knows eachother. If a sg knows eachother it means less work on the leaders because they are more likely to get things started on their own and stay in the sg.
Other things that may cause work in a sg is base, and maintaining lvl50s attention to the game, which isn't that hard.
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Two words: global channels. Find the right channels and you will never have trouble getting teams. Make a point of teaming and chatting with the people on a channel and they won't just announce teams/task forces on the channel - they'll start sending tells to you when they see you're online. I'm on a badge channel, a farming channel, a general team channel and 4 private SG channels and there's always something going on. FYI, I find the server friend list pretty much useless. People have too many alts. I have too many alts. The only time I use it is when on a team and someone DC's. I immediately friend them so it will tell me when they are back on. |
I completely agree about the server friends list.
I have tried using the global channels but only found success on Virtue LFG Alpha (and maybe channel "Freedom"). Also, playing on all servers limits my ability to use the global channels. There is some sort of maximum on the number of channels allowed and that often leaves some servers empty. I have tried balancing this between my accounts so that I can use an alt to listen to the channel.
Which brings me to the biggest question about global channels: Which are the channels to use on each server? I have looked at the "post your global channels here" sticky, but I would still like your answers here to see what will really work right now.
So which channels should I use on which server?
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I think that is where we failed. Only myself and the American I found did good recruiting and started events etc. I would love someone's advice on how to manage it, even if I don't know if I will ever muster the energy to get an SG up to 100 members again. On the other hand, I can always join a good starting SG and try to help out myself. That way I might get someone to take care of the base building, which I don't particularly care for :-) (the American did that part)
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
From what you describe, I'm guessing you had a relatively high turnover rate and it required constant attention/recruiting on your part to maintain the population. Clearly you were the key man in building and maintaining that population. The next step would be to make it self-sustaining such that the other members get involved in recruiting/retaining members. Unfortunately, while I can see WHAT needs to happen, I can't really say HOW to manage it. . |
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BZZT! Wrong answer. You have it backwards. Figure out how to get the self-sustaining growth FIRST and you will almost effortlessly end up with a big SG.
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Originally Posted by Drugfree Boy
I think that is where we failed. Only myself and the American I found did good recruiting and started events etc. I would love someone's advice on how to manage it, even if I don't know if I will ever muster the energy to get an SG up to 100 members again.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Same result, though, as I would not push up to a 100 members without a good idea of how to get the self-sustaining growth. Which brings back the question - how do you get it?|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
BZZT! Wrong answer. You have it backwards. Figure out how to get the self-sustaining growth FIRST and you will almost effortlessly end up with a big SG.
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But we are getting off-topic here. I will post a thread about this in the SG forum if I ever want to try it again
There are communities, that is true.
But, as most, they merely serve as small hurdles that require very little effort to join.
Many, such as the global channels listed in the Global Channels list stickied to the top of this forum, require no invite to join, they merely require a player know how to to click their chat tab and select "join channel". Joining one of these opens up a whole slew of new avenues of which to find a team and/or something to do, especially if you don't mind switching characters to something in an appropriate level range.
And others, such as Repeat Offenders (in my signature), merely require you create an account on theirs forums and say 'hi' to become part of their community. Does each community tend tend to have it's own vibe? Definetly. But, are they restrictive? Well, to the new, informed players who are unaware, yes, only in the fact that they are naive, but they are also relatively easy to stumble upon and join. In fact, new players may be reading right now. And likely they are learning about global chat channels. There are many. Join some! Come play with people. They aren't that hard to become involved in.
Member of:
Repeat Offenders Network - The Largest Coalition Network in the Game, across Virtue, Freedom, Justice and Exalted. Open to all, check us out.
Current Team Project: Pending
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Um, well, 'on the top of this forum' in this case means when you click the "For Fun" section out of the many choices ("Make yourselves comfortable & chat about Comics, Lore, Roleplaying, Heroes & Villains in general. Present your suggestions for the game as well as your fan creations for all to admire!" - not something I'd look for basic game info in), and then the "General Discussion" subsection. Not necessarily where every newcomer inevitably looks, and said topic then has a few random channels thrown in after a link to a channel list that leads to a "page not found".|
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
such as the global channels listed in the Global Channels list stickied to the top of this forum,
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It doesnt explain what global channels are and why you'd want one, doesnt show channels for all servers but only a select few, and is likely highly outdated. Plus even if I had found it like it is now back when I skimmed the forums, I wouldnt have concluded that "global channels", whatever that is, are something I should have for better teaming.
No, I think for a newcomer its not obvious that such channels exist and that you'll want one.
I dont think that is what fury meant though. It isnt about quality of teams as much as feeling of investment in the game, if you left would you have specific people who you would miss, and do you feel a part of the game community rather than a nameless player, and i can understand where he is coming from. There are people who want to be in big sg's and have that extra level of camaraderie, and due to mechanics as well as ease of soloability, they aren't as important as in a raid heavy game like wow or eq2. that said, i dislike the word gate, because it implies exclusion, the exclusion really is mostly on the part of the player who doesn't make the effort to find the social groups, rather than a new player hostile environment, as i have heard wow often is. besides, as activ as you are on the forums, are you really saying you are an unknown outsider?