it doesn't seem to make sense . . .
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2009-12-26 05:24 in Suggestions and Ideas
Not every villain's a selfish, backstabbing, sociopathic git hellbent on getting rich/powerful or blowing up the world trying, you know. I kinda see where you're coming from, but you do really need to take the above fact into consideration.
Sam: "My mind is a swirling miasma of scintillating thoughts and turgid ideas."
Max: "Me too."
Stuff
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A good Henchman would be Faithful, Loyal, Steadfast, Devoted and Dedicated to his Archvillian. |
Originally Posted by Noobian_Prince
Instead of "Trustworthy" (3 month badge), we would have "Sneaky."
" " Faithful, " " Faithless or Wavering " " Dependable, " " Treacherous or Erratic " " Loyal, " " Traitorous or Subversive " " Steadfast, " " Fickle or Unsteady " " Devoted, " " Self-Centered or Selfish " " Dedicated, " " Unreliable or Stubborn <snip> "Honorable," which of course would be "Disgraced." |
And thus, the Villian Player is Devoted to this game.
It's possible for an evil character to follow a twisted version of "Honor". All the really great ones have a higher set of motivations than just wanton violence and petty crime. There's always a larger goal.
I could see Stubborn or perhaps Subversive (a bit out of context, but whatever) or maybe Selfish, but when you are talking about a player who has stuck around for years, Fickle or Unreliable are not applicable.
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That would make sense if the badges were being awarded to the toons rather than the players and their accounts. Which they are.
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Originally Posted by Noobian_Prince
giving villains the same Veteran Badge titles as Heroes. You know the ones I'm talking about:
Faithful ? Loyal ? TRUSTWORTHY ? What kind of name is THAT to give a villain? Obviously some don't need to be changed: Eternal, City Traveler and Battle Hardened all apply equally to both hero and villain. What I'm suggesting is that, where appropriate, Veteran badges have a villain variant. Instead of "Trustworthy" (3 month badge), we would have "Sneaky." " " Faithful, " " Faithless or Wavering " " Dependable, " " Treacherous or Erratic " " Loyal, " " Traitorous or Subversive " " Steadfast, " " Fickle or Unsteady " " Devoted, " " Self-Centered or Selfish " " Dedicated, " " Unreliable or Stubborn Most of the others, like Committed, Unswerving, and Eternal work for both Hero and Villain ("Addicted" seems an interesting choice for a villain), with the obvious exception of the 63 month badge, "Honorable," which of course would be "Disgraced." |
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This.
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Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
That would make sense if the badges were being awarded to the toons rather than the players and their accounts. Which they are.
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Taking into account that these are Global/Accountwide Badges; they work fine as is and for the reasons stated by others. There may be a few that you personally dont think make sense, but that is a personal POV; so dont use what doesnt fit. In one case, your suggested alternate (Treacherous); that is already available as a Level 25 Title for Tech Origin toons (and any toon at later levels). Additionally, not all Badges make sense as a Title for all toons be it due to backstory, AT, Powersets, personal preference, etc. Not a horrendous suggestion, but not really necessary of any Dev time either (IMNTBHO).
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Originally Posted by Noobian_Prince
giving villains the same Veteran Badge titles as Heroes. You know the ones I'm talking about:
Faithful ? Loyal ? TRUSTWORTHY ? What kind of name is THAT to give a villain? Obviously some don't need to be changed: Eternal, City Traveler and Battle Hardened all apply equally to both hero and villain. What I'm suggesting is that, where appropriate, Veteran badges have a villain variant. Instead of "Trustworthy" (3 month badge), we would have "Sneaky." " " Faithful, " " Faithless or Wavering " " Dependable, " " Treacherous or Erratic " " Loyal, " " Traitorous or Subversive " " Steadfast, " " Fickle or Unsteady " " Devoted, " " Self-Centered or Selfish " " Dedicated, " " Unreliable or Stubborn Most of the others, like Committed, Unswerving, and Eternal work for both Hero and Villain ("Addicted" seems an interesting choice for a villain), with the obvious exception of the 63 month badge, "Honorable," which of course would be "Disgraced." |
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
Put an Ebil MasterMind in the Obal Office: It wont be the first time
Campaigning for Global Global Ignore Champion since 2009!
There are plenty of types of villains which these words could apply to. Maybe your villain is the honorable their type... completely trustworthy, but only so far as they'll agree to. If you task them to do something and they accept, you can bet that they'll get it done.
Or maybe you're not playing the lone wolf villain, and are a soldier under another character or, getting into the actual setting, loyal to Arachnos and not actually intending to overthrow it or anything. There are those sorts, as well.
So no, I don't think that badge names should be changed just because they don't fit Villain Stereotype A... when they can still work for Villain Stereotype B.
Even Evil has standards. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ilHasStandards
Lawful Evil. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulEvil
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Originally Posted by Ninus
There may be a few that you personally dont think make sense, but that is a personal POV; so dont use what doesnt fit.
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If awhile back, someone had noted that none of the following were appropriate for their female toon:
Button Man Gunner
Longbow Rifleman
Wiseguy
Serpent Red Ink Man
Steel Strongman
Alumnus
Sorceror
Backwoodsman
Knight Errant
Web Master
Mystic King
Newsman
Web Master
Weatherman
Mr. Big
Hangman
Master of the Airwaves
Rocketman
Pumpkin King
Hitman
Lord of War
THAT would have been your response: Don't use the ones that aren't appropriate and get over it?
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| Not a horrendous suggestion, but not really necessary of any Dev time either |
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| Taking into account that these are Global/Accountwide Badges; they work fine as is |
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| not all Badges make sense as a Title for all toons be it due to backstory, AT, Powersets, personal preference, etc. |
).
However, just as I'm sure many players with female toons were annoyed that so many badges weren't usable to them, I get annoyed when I'm looking for a badge title for my villains and so many of the early Vet badges make no sense at all for ANY of them. (Especially since, when you roll a new toon, all you have to start with are Vet badges and a couple of nearby Exporation badges.)
(I didn't know about "Treacherous" already being in use. Okay, substitute "Renegade" for that one.)
@ Purgatorio
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Point taken.|
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
It's possible for an evil character to follow a twisted version of "Honor".
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| I could see Stubborn or perhaps Subversive (a bit out of context, but whatever) |
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| but when you are talking about a player who has stuck around for years, Fickle or Unreliable are not applicable. |
I know most PEOPLE would not appreciate being called Fickle, Mulish, Treacherous, etc. but these titles are for their toons, not them. (Besides, take a look at the existing Vet titles. Would YOU like to be referred to as Zealous, Fervant or Addicted?
)
@ Purgatorio
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Perhaps not, even though it might apply.|
Originally Posted by Noobian_Prince
Would YOU like to be referred to as Zealous, Fervant or Addicted?
) |
I try to squeeze a little gameplay in when I should be doing other things. Perhaps even posting on the forums from work...*tries to look innocent*
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Two hours later:|
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Even Evil has standards. {URL snipped}
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Good grief, dude. WARN people before sending them there...
My characters - all on Virtue.
Gabe's Internet [censored] Theory
RMT spammers WILL steal your credit card.
haha, TVtropes is the inescapable abyss of the internet!
now, topic at hand? I quite like sticking Trustworthy on my low lvl villains. "Trusssst in meee"
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
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And in response......Muahahahaha! |
Originally Posted by kusanagi
Two hours later:
Good grief, dude. WARN people before sending them there... |
Thank you.
(See...as a villian, I'm still polite. One of my many positive attributes that I retain, while still being redside. {Dear lord, don't let Golden Girl get in here and start ranting about Hero vs. Villian})
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Actually: no, but point semi-taken. Remember: in the beginning (I2 & I6 respectively) these were not 'gender sensitive', and with the 'Cosmetic Surgeon', gender sensitivity has come across a few glitches, or so has been mentioned on the Boards here.|
Originally Posted by Noobian_Prince
If awhile back, someone had noted that none of the following were appropriate for their female toon:
Button Man Gunner Longbow Rifleman Wiseguy Serpent Red Ink Man Steel Strongman Alumnus Sorceror Backwoodsman Knight Errant Web Master Mystic King Newsman Web Master Weatherman Mr. Big Hangman Master of the Airwaves Rocketman Pumpkin King Hitman Lord of War THAT would have been your response: Don't use the ones that aren't appropriate and get over it? |
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| Thanks a lot. Obviously the devs disagreed and many of the above titles were given a female equivalent in i7. |
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| You mean like the account-wide VIP / Destined One badge? |
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No kidding. How many toons would the "Doc Whedon" badge be an appropriate title for? (Hmmm. Maybe I could roll a scrapper and call her "Buffy the Slayer" ? )
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| However, just as I'm sure many players with female toons were annoyed that so many badges weren't usable to them, I get annoyed when I'm looking for a badge title for my villains and so many of the early Vet badges make no sense at all for ANY of them. (Especially since, when you roll a new toon, all you have to start with are Vet badges and a couple of nearby Exporation badges.) |
Also realize that with GR there will be 5 Factions, and how will they be demarcated for Factional Veterans Badges? Or will only 'True' Villains have access to your 'new' Badge titles? I hope you see the problem there.
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| (I didn't know about "Treacherous" already being in use. Okay, substitute "Renegade" for that one.) |
Finally, although I am an avid Badge-Hoor, I rarely Set any Title for my toons. Neither Title nor Badge Title, and I set my options to show as little of other people's characters as possible. While many speak of immersion breaking dynamics in the game; I only have one: disembodied words floating over people's heads. So I dont look at a toon's Title unless I really want to see what it is (and I dont). But that's just me.
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
Put an Ebil MasterMind in the Obal Office: It wont be the first time
Campaigning for Global Global Ignore Champion since 2009!
And just to add: "it doesn't seem to make sense . . .", seems to be in the eye of the beholder. Makes perfect sense to many subscribers.
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
Put an Ebil MasterMind in the Obal Office: It wont be the first time
Campaigning for Global Global Ignore Champion since 2009!
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Well, up until he met his son, I think Darth Vader could be described as all of those.|
Originally Posted by Noobian_Prince
Faithful ?
Loyal ? TRUSTWORTHY ? What kind of name is THAT to give a villain? |
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| "Disgraced." |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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This is pretty much how I feel about it. Most of the players I interact with are perfectly capable of separating their global account from their player account, and understand that Veteran Badges are awarded to the player at the Keyboard, not the avatar on the screen.
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Originally Posted by Ninus
And just to add: "it doesn't seem to make sense . . .", seems to be in the eye of the beholder. Makes perfect sense to many subscribers.
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These are badges given to the player for their loyalty to the game, not given to their characters. They don't need to be changed.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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While this part is unequivacally true... I don't think it leads to this conclusion:|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
These are badges given to the player for their loyalty to the game, not given to their characters.
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| They don't need to be changed. |
All that being said, I don't think they need to be changed, but I also think that some of them are just plain odd when applied to your standard villain. I see no problem in amending a couple of them to have slightly less "rainbows and butterflies" sounding names.
hopefully with Going Rogue we'll get the option to choose hero or villain versions of our badge titles. (with the science booster's gender swapping, it'd be nice if we got to choose male or female versions as well)
I've one Blaster in particular that I'd like to have the Thief day job, and alternately, I think as many Bankers could be villains as are heroes.
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
What about being loyal... to Arachnos?
to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
I don't think the veteran badges need to be changed because.... there's hundreds of other badges to choose from!
I would like to point out, however, that some players before me tried to argue that even villains follow ideals. This is true to an extent, but if you take a villain like the Joker then the argument crumbles. True, he is loyal to the concept of chaos, but this also makes him 'Unreliable' instead of the original badge title of 'Reliable.' Chaotic Evil types (to steal a D&D term) would be able to use the modified titles that the OP suggested.
But as I said in the beginning of this post, I don't think anything should be changed because there's so many other badge titles out there...
My Virtue Projects
AE: 38959 - Invasion of the Dark Realm
I would agree that there are some badges that might be considered "strange" for villains to use as titles. But I imagine there are various badges that would be "strange" for any particular character to use for any given reason. For example I'd consider it a bit weird for one of my fire wielding demonic characters to use the Lady of Winter or Frostbitten badges as titles. Basically all characters have at least a few badges that would be inappropriate for them.
Veteran badges (as has been pointed out) are global account-based player badges rather than badges associated to any one character. The best solution to this situation is not renaming badges but making it so that account-based badges like the Veteran badges and the Pocket D VIP badge are kept in their own area completely separate from character badges. In the strictest terms they shouldn't even count towards the total number of badges a character has because they weren't earned by any single character - they were "earned" so to speak by the player themselves.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
giving villains the same Veteran Badge titles as Heroes. You know the ones I'm talking about:
Faithful ?
Loyal ?
TRUSTWORTHY ? What kind of name is THAT to give a villain?
Obviously some don't need to be changed: Eternal, City Traveler and Battle Hardened all apply equally to both hero and villain.
What I'm suggesting is that, where appropriate, Veteran badges have a villain variant.
Instead of "Trustworthy" (3 month badge), we would have "Sneaky."
" " Faithful, " " Faithless or Wavering
" " Dependable, " " Treacherous or Erratic
" " Loyal, " " Traitorous or Subversive
" " Steadfast, " " Fickle or Unsteady
" " Devoted, " " Self-Centered or Selfish
" " Dedicated, " " Unreliable or Stubborn
Most of the others, like Committed, Unswerving, and Eternal work for both Hero and Villain ("Addicted" seems an interesting choice for a villain), with the obvious exception of the 63 month badge, "Honorable," which of course would be "Disgraced."
@ Purgatorio