New Archetypes?
By
beyeajus,
Posted on: 2009-12-19 16:43 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
No one knows. We can only speculate. If you want pets and defense, try a Soldier of Arachnos.
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"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
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Melee/Buff would be... well, very peculiar, but still! Claws/Empathy, pls.
What, Claws/Regen not good enough for ya? :P
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Defense/Controls? You mean, like Fire Control/Fire Armor?
Sounds like a soul-crushingly boring toon. You'd have the worst damage in the world (especially if you didn't get Containment) but no risk of death. On teams, you'd just be a terrible controller who happened never to die.
Control & pets? You mean, like Thugs/Mind Control?
Well, Control sets already get pets (unless they're Mind Control). This one is more workable than the other suggestion, but I think I'd rather have one set of pets I could buff than two I couldn't.
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I also have a hard time pegging how their stats would look. If the only thing they can do is control, they'd have to be really good at controlling. Which would mean that their defense/HP would be pretty low (Stalkerish possibly). But if their defense was too low it would defeat the purpose and then they'd just have one meh primary.|
Originally Posted by oriand
Defense/Controls? You mean, like Fire Control/Fire Armor?
Sounds like a soul-crushingly boring toon. You'd have the worst damage in the world (especially if you didn't get Containment) but no risk of death. On teams, you'd just be a terrible controller who happened never to die. |
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Control & pets? You mean, like Thugs/Mind Control? Well, Control sets already get pets (unless they're Mind Control). This one is more workable than the other suggestion, but I think I'd rather have one set of pets I could buff than two I couldn't. |
Some I might like:
Range/Defense OR Assault/Defense
These would probably have stats on-par with VEATs. They'd have 1.00ish damage and squishy (~1k) HP. They'd have to have their stats low enough so as not to invalidate existing ATs like Scrappers or Blasters, but not so low that there's no point in playing them. A very careful balance, but VEATs are already more or less Assault/Defense.
Melee/Buff
Sort of like a melee Corruptor. The only thing is, being in melee all the time could result in dangerous situations for the character. They'd probably need to have a little bit higher HP, like Blaster/Stalker range (~1200) to be more able to sit in melee and smack guys without just dying all the time. Assault/Buff may also work. Giving them Placate could also help (as long as they don't remove all the AoE powers from all the sets ala Stalker).
After that, I honestly can't think of other combos that would seem to work with any degree of success. Damage, buff, and control have already been paired with everything that would make sense. Control would probably suck as a secondary. And pets sort of need assistance, so Pets/Damage or Pets/Defense would just be tragic.
One thing that might work though would be a VEAT-esque secondary which is a mix of personal defense and team support. Kind of like how Assault is a mix of melee and range. You wouldn't be as durable as a normal defense toon, or as supporty as a normal support toon, but you get a mix of both that fits into just about any solo or team scenario. Some example sets with this might be like:
1) High Pain Tolerance
2) Mind Over Body
3) Healing Aura
4) Indomitable Will
5) Heal Other
6) Quick Recovery
7) Fortitude
8) Resurgence
9) Adrenaline Boost
1) Death Shroud
2) Dark Embrace
3) Twilight Grasp
4) Darkest Night
5) Murky Cloud
6) Shadow Fall
7) Obsidian Shield
8) Fearsome Stare
9) Dark Servant
Or something like that... just thrown-together so don't take them too seriously.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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The Range/Defense thing is one I'v been trying to get to for years. I've occasionally suggested the Assault sets for Tankers (no change to damage numbers would even be needed, only Taunt would have to be added somewhere...), but balance would have to be considered.
Either way, I'll be very happy if that sort of thing becomes possible.
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I have to disagree. And I'll tell you why. |
Originally Posted by oriand
Defense/Controls? You mean, like Fire Control/Fire Armor?
Sounds like a soul-crushingly boring toon. You'd have the worst damage in the world (especially if you didn't get Containment) but no risk of death. On teams, you'd just be a terrible controller who happened never to die. Control & pets? You mean, like Thugs/Mind Control? Well, Control sets already get pets (unless they're Mind Control). This one is more workable than the other suggestion, but I think I'd rather have one set of pets I could buff than two I couldn't. |
The damage would just be terrible if they made the damage terrible.
It's been shown that they can change the damage of attacks between ATs.
So, the control set can be higher damaging than what you see for Trollers.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Eh, even if they gave a Control/Defense AT a huge amount of damage, you really only get about two ST powers and two AoE powers, and the AoEs are going to be impractical for different reasons (one for end, one for recharge). Some sets like Mind or Gravity might be a little better off, but you'd have to boost the damage crazy high to make it anything significant. And if you did that, their pool and epic powers would do too much damage.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I have to disagree. And I'll tell you why.
The damage would just be terrible if they made the damage terrible. It's been shown that they can change the damage of attacks between ATs. So, the control set can be higher damaging than what you see for Trollers. |
So either they can't have epic attacks and they get maybe four powers to attack with, all of which have a long recharge, or they do essentially no damage until 41+. And since you can't buff or debuff either to speed things up, it's going to be a long trek.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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This is what I want to see...Ranged or Assault Set/Defense Set.|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
The Range/Defense thing is one I'v been trying to get to for years. I've occasionally suggested the Assault sets for Tankers (no change to damage numbers would even be needed, only Taunt would have to be added somewhere...), but balance would have to be considered.
Either way, I'll be very happy if that sort of thing becomes possible. |
Standard Scrapper level Defense Set.
Lower hit points than a scrapper (so stalker or blaster level).
High Damage. How high I don't know...would have to be lower than a scrapper. Maybe a flat 1.0 damage mod.
Really with a set like this, it would likely be that the ranged attacks where used in melee and on runners, more than just standing in the back (unless the ranged set was used, and even then, probaly not).
As for a Melee Set/Buff(Debuff) Set.
Scrapper lvl Health, with just a little higher than Corrupter lvl damage (to account for having to get into melee).
Inherent can be low mag Mez Protection. Mag 4-6 I'd say. Force Fields and Sonic users would get a little more Mag Protection with their Mez Shields, but I don't think it would be OPed to worry about.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Kheldians and VEATs are already sorta Assault/Defense, with melee and ranged attacks in their primaries and defensive powers in their secondaries
Bane Spiders and Night Widows could be described as being melee/buff
Crabs and Fortunatas could be described as being ranged/defense (with the added bonus of their 'defense' affecting nearby teammates)
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Assault/Defense would be a better choice I think. If done as a mix, the damage scales can be altered to favor one over the other. In the same way that Doms currently are. For example, scales of 1.05 for melee with 0.95 for ranged. So the AT can bounce into melee and do good damage, though still has the option of range at the expense of slightly less damage.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
This is what I want to see...Ranged or Assault Set/Defense Set.
Standard Scrapper level Defense Set. Lower hit points than a scrapper (so stalker or blaster level). High Damage. How high I don't know...would have to be lower than a scrapper. Maybe a flat 1.0 damage mod. Really with a set like this, it would likely be that the ranged attacks where used in melee and on runners, more than just standing in the back (unless the ranged set was used, and even then, probaly not). |
There's also the fact that ranged sets might be pretty nutty between nukes, mini-nukes, and stacking AoEs if the user has no fear of death. Assault Sets tend to have 1-2 AoEs, while some Blast sets have 3-5.
It also wouldn't make that much sense to have secondaries like Shield, Invuln, and WP if the character has no melee attacks to combine with the melee-oriented secondary. An assault set would always have at least a couple melee powers to use, and if the scales are higher, would favor melee.
There are some conflicts though. Assault sets as they are occasionally borrow powers from defense sets. So Mud Pots, Fiery Embrace, Consume, and Chilling Embrace would have to go/be replaced by something. There's also the fact that Drain Psyche might be too nuts (though possibly not as nuts as Dark Melee already is).
However, I'd love to play some sort of Psi/WP toon.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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My dream character is Energy Assault/Willpower. That's what my main Hero's original design was, more or less, long before CoH ever came out... and that's how I built him as a custom character in the MA. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
Some I might like:
Range/Defense OR Assault/Defense |
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Control/Defense couple problems...
1. Defense is a passive defense and control is active defense, pairring two defense sets would make it almost impossible to do it is almost like having a defense/buff set just almost horrid to play.
2. Not all defense sets do damage and most control sets really don't do any damage until 32 (Mind, Plant and Ill are exceptions) So realistically speaking you couldn't think about soloing until 32 with most sets, however on the other hand, some combos you could do amiazing amounts of AoE damage just off the top of my head Plant/Dark would probably be a nice set.
Melee/(buff/debuff)
I think this would be an interesting set, just give them defender buff/debuff values
Assault/Defense
In theory most Epics are already here. This would probably be the most played AT, and with the right IO's could possibly be the perfect Tankmage.
Henchmen/Assault
This would probably be a nice AT.
Henchmen/Control
This also would be a nice AT
This is all I could really think of without making something already made or making something origanal.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
Melee/Buff was a thing I was toying with at one point. I wrote out a whole explaination too, here, take a look.
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It's a really rough concept, but I think it's a possibilty. I even wrote out versions of the various buff sets for use in this formula. :P
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Guardian (Support/Melee): This would require powerset tweaking, but is doable. The Support Primaries would be similar to the Defender Primaries, except with some of the powers swapped out for mitigation powers (with the stalker numbers), reordered for leveling issues, and using the Corruptor support numbers. As an Example: Kinetic Aura/Energy Melee Guardian. Kinetic Aura Transfusion Siphon Power Kinetic Shield Siphon Speed Power Shield Speed Boost Inertial Reduction Entropy Shield Transference This removes repel, which is useless for a melee character, and removes Fulcrum shift, which would be overpowered for a melee character. There is obviously a chance to softcap defense here, but it has none of the utility that energy aura generally has. With a tweaking of numbers it could be possible to make the max defense with set bonuses to be 38ish Percent, which would give it enough survivability to survive without drawing too much aggro. The secondary set would have the same numbers as tanker energy melee, and wouldn't have the auto taunt, so the DPS would be similar to Defender DPS, except in Melee. Transfusion and Transference may be a little too good for a melee type, considering the nature of the powers, but a reduce in heal numbers and Endurance gain would balance it out a bit. This would make for a solid Solo and Teaming character without breaking mny bounds. Epic sets would include Godmodes, Power Boost, Ranged attacks and self-rezzes, while avoiding any mezzes like holds and confuses as well as ranged AoEs, not including narrow cones. Example: Physics Mastery. Crush Power Blast (with slightly reduced range) Power Boost (Not Power Build Up, considering build up is in most of the secondaries, and siphon power) Energy Torrent (With reduced KB Magnitude, reducing it to KD on even or higher level mobs, only knocking mobs back that are low level) Overload (With a lowered duration) This would maintain the mostly single target nature of the melee class, while helping to balance out the character. Inherent Power: Valience, the more times you hit an enemy (like fury, but only when you attack) your valience bar fills up. Once your Valience bar is at 90-100% (like a dominator), you can click your Valience power to increase the effectiveness of your support powers (From corruptor values to defender values) for 1 minute. 1.5 times more recharge then domination to avoid making it permanent. |
@Mazzo Grave
Webmaster Grave, Virtueverse!
Energy/Energy Blaster Guide
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
you *******!!!!
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I had others written up a long time ago. Like Fire Aura+Thermal Radiation (Thermal Rad without the debuffs, with personal fire shields, but no self heal), Invuln + FF (Autos and Invinc swapped out for FF shields), Empathy+WP, Ice Armor+Cold Domination, and some others.
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Originally Posted by Black_Marrow
It's a really rough concept, but I think it's a possibilty. I even wrote out versions of the various buff sets for use in this formula. :P
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Hmmm...I don't know if I'd say tankmage.|
Originally Posted by Da_Captain
Assault/Defense
In theory most Epics are already here. This would probably be the most played AT, and with the right IO's could possibly be the perfect Tankmage. |
Tackeling AVs solo, would likely be possible (as it is with every AT).
Or do you mean PvP wise? Hmmm...probably some combos...but since it seems most are in agreement, less HP than scrappers and a little less damage. And how Mez Protection doesn't mean that much in PvP...it would just mean they have more range options than a non 50 Scrapper/Tanker/Brute.
I really don't see them becoming Tankmages...judging by the Widows/Soldiers.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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i have one. It's called a Crab Spider. Also has pets, team buffs and an absurd amount of AoE damage.
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
The Range/Defense thing is one I'v been trying to get to for years.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
My favourite new archetype idea was the Movement Master written up by Rachelthulu back on the old forums (and seemingly now lost in time, at least to my search skills).
In brief, its a Movement-Defence/Melee archetype for those characters whose primary power is movement eg Flash, Nightcrawler, Cannonball, Angel and Toad to name but a few.
The primary combines a level 1 travel power with defensive powers, many of which would require movement to work. eg short range teleport with no immobilise at the end that adds +Def to all positions per click.
Keep moving and you can stay one step ahead, stand still and you're a sitting duck.
You could add in other self buffs, such as a +damage Momentum sprint for speedsters.
The secondaries would be pretty much the usual scrapper sets, with slightly lower damage and no criticals.
I think this kind of character would add a whole new dynamic element to combat in CoH.
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Cool idea. I'm all about a melee/buff too. melee kins would be sweet.
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
My favourite new archetype idea was the Movement Master written up by Rachelthulu back on the old forums (and seemingly now lost in time, at least to my search skills).
In brief, its a Movement-Defence/Melee archetype for those characters whose primary power is movement eg Flash, Nightcrawler, Cannonball, Angel and Toad to name but a few. The primary combines a level 1 travel power with defensive powers, many of which would require movement to work. eg short range teleport with no immobilise at the end that adds +Def to all positions per click. Keep moving and you can stay one step ahead, stand still and you're a sitting duck. You could add in other self buffs, such as a +damage Momentum sprint for speedsters. The secondaries would be pretty much the usual scrapper sets, with slightly lower damage and no criticals. I think this kind of character would add a whole new dynamic element to combat in CoH. |
Melee/melee
Screw defense. Screw controls. Just balls to the wall, high risk for high reward.
The Bacon Compels You.
An idea I've been thinking of is what I call the Leader Archetype; Pets/Attack. The primary would be a modified version of a Mastermind primary, with the personal attacks replaced with basic armor powers of appropriate them for the set. Leader Necromancy would have the three main defense toggles of Dark Armor for example; at somewhat lower strength for balance perhaps. The secondary would be attack powers; Ranged, Assault or Melee would all work. It would also have low HP, but a form of Bodyguard to make up for it. It would also have a Inherent that acted like a hybrid of Gauntlet and Supremacy; both to help keep your pets alive and to give you a reason to keep them close.
The idea is to make up for the lack of buffs/debuffs with greater personal defenses and damage; and to give people the chance to play a "lead from the front" style pet user.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Also an epic AT, and only has one primary and one secondary. |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i have one. It's called a Crab Spider. Also has pets, team buffs and an absurd amount of AoE damage.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Isn't new archetypes extremely unlikely?
There are still unconfirmed rumors of a "Spy" archtype with Going Rogue. No one knows anything about it or even if it's really happening.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
In Going Rogue are they planing to make new Archetypes?
I was thinking something like controlling set with pet set, or someone with defense and controlling powers