Brutes & Scrappers after Going Rogue?
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2009-12-15 17:57 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Ahh, the fun of calculating Brute dps. On the forums we always just assume that Brutes have x% Fury and crunch it from there, but there another element I alluded to earlier. For example, using Brawl lowers the dps you're doing, but also increases your Fury generation. Is that a net gain (Fury increasing the damage of all your attacks by more than the damage you lost by using Brawl) or vice versa (using Brawl lowered the damage output of your chain by more than the damage boost Fury gave you).| After they made brawl cost zero endurance there is no reason why any brute should not have 80% fury at all times. Just put brawl on auto fire and watch stuff die. |
Using Brawl once every 10s is consuming ~10% of your attack time, once every 5s is consuming ~20% of your attack time.
I'm not well versed in Fury mechanics (how much Fury do you get per attack? how fast do decay ticks occur? how big is each tick?), so I couldn't crunch out the numbers, even if I had the free time to do so.
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Brawl rocks early on in a brute's career. If you're using it at 50, you're doing it wrong.
| vice versa (using Brawl lowered the damage output of your chain by more than the damage boost Fury gave you). |
Be well, people of CoH.
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But Brawl's DPE is INFINITY! It deals an infinite amount of damage! |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Brawl rocks early on in a brute's career. If you're using it at 50, you're doing it wrong.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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On most of my toons I dont slot heavily for recharge unless the power is fully IOed. Most often with the brute sets I play there is going to be some filler space where brawl easily fits while something else is recharged. I dont think brawl is hurting me that bad. Brawl with claws eventhough everything already recharges fast is still pretty insane damage. So I will keep loving my brawl for now. The thing about having fury is to make sure that you do the heavy hitters when fury was at the highest point. Without brawl I would just end up waiting for the right time to attack where as with brawl I pretty much attacked all the time the attack was up because fury was always high.
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
Ahh, the fun of calculating Brute dps. On the forums we always just assume that Brutes have x% Fury and crunch it from there, but there another element I alluded to earlier. For example, using Brawl lowers the dps you're doing, but also increases your Fury generation. Is that a net gain (Fury increasing the damage of all your attacks by more than the damage you lost by using Brawl) or vice versa (using Brawl lowered the damage output of your chain by more than the damage boost Fury gave you).
Using Brawl once every 10s is consuming ~10% of your attack time, once every 5s is consuming ~20% of your attack time. I'm not well versed in Fury mechanics (how much Fury do you get per attack? how fast do decay ticks occur? how big is each tick?), so I couldn't crunch out the numbers, even if I had the free time to do so. |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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I guess its really a playstyle thing. I dont focus on dps at all. I focus on whatever attack chain I can do that will kill a critter in the fewest hit with regular attack powers. DPS is only going to matter on avs (because stuff already gets 1 to 2 shotted anyways) so in that instance you are going to have full fury anyways if you got aggro on an av so brawl isnt needed then. Think of brawl as a mini-buildup for brutes.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Brawl rocks early on in a brute's career. If you're using it at 50, you're doing it wrong.
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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
I think of brawl as a fantastic tool for the levels where I'm not end efficient and don't have a proper attack chain.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I'll believe your "100% fury", which is impossible to actually maintain, when you post a demorecord of it.|
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]Am I the only person in this thread who has no trouble maintaining 100% Fury in a full team, without being the lead Brute?! What's all this nonsense about Brutes having a hard time reaching Scrapper damage in teams?
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85%? Sure.
90%, Yes. If you're in an extreme farming situation and are constantly surrounded by mobs.
100%, where the bar is actually completely full? No.
A lot of Brute players I know tend to skip Taunt, seeing it as "The Tanker Power" that adds nothing to their damage output; and then they sit in a corner and complain about not having Fury.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
After they made brawl cost zero endurance there is no reason why any brute should not have 80% fury at all times. Just put brawl on auto fire and watch stuff die.
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And Brawl does not provide an instantaneous full fury bar - taking alpha strikes does.
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I can get fury up faster using brawl than I can just taking the alpha strike. Trust me on this brawl does more for you than you realize.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I'll believe your "100% fury", which is impossible to actually maintain, when you post a demorecord of it.
85%? Sure. 90%, Yes. If you're in an extreme farming situation and are constantly surrounded by mobs. 100%, where the bar is actually completely full? No. A lot of Brute players I know tend to skip Taunt, seeing it as "The Tanker Power" that adds nothing to their damage output; and then they sit in a corner and complain about not having Fury. Brawl does not kill stuff, it hurts your DPS, unless you have lots of gaps in your attack chain - in which case you have other, larger problems. And Brawl does not provide an instantaneous full fury bar - taking alpha strikes does. |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Okay. Fine. Honestly, after my Fury bar is past 90%, I don't really pay attention to whether or not it is 100% full; because to me that extra 100% isn't THAT important...especially if you're on a team (which is where the difficulty of building Fury becomes something to be concerned about).
Personally, I care about efficiency and not maximum power.
The thing I want to do is bring my mastermind to the hero side contact Maria Jenkins. She's an awesome contact!
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Seriously, you're not doing something right if that's true.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I can get fury up faster using brawl than I can just taking the alpha strike.
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I have a Stone/Fire Brute and I can hover around or above 80% on solo +2 maps, and that was before I16 let me put more mobs in the map. I don't use Brawl any more.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Funny to see all of the banter going around about brawl. I wouldn't put brawl on auto, or any other power that affects other people or mobs. The only powers I place on auto are Hasten, Rage, or Practiced Brawler/Active Defense. In fact, auto healing aura people, auto taunt, auto brawl people are just ridiculous in my eyes. If I want to attack something, I will just run up and punch/burn/maim it actively. At level 50, or hell, even 25, I normally have too many cool (and fast recharge) powers to use on a brute besides brawl. Sure, it costs 0 end, but it just isn't me.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
I like Scrappers better because I found managing Fury bothersome, however some enjoy the Fury mechanic. Rejoice the cosmos are still in balance!
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!