How to Fix AE Rewards, in One Step
Still easy to farm, just have to switch characters instead of staying on one. So, instead of farming one character to 50 in a week, you farm 7 over 7 weeks, or whatever.
Custom critters that are very, very weak, should give out less rewards.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Like PvP, AE as it is now needs a thorough look over and balance, not half measures.
Tbh, some of the Custom mobs should give MORE exp than standard mobs, based on what sets they have, and what combos they have. While others should give less, down to a baseline for something with no attacks
(I say that because Cimeroran medics still give minion exp, despite having no attacks. They DO have a godpowerful heal and, worse, a rez. They can be nasty in their own unique way.)
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Whenever I see 'Give AE foes more XP' I automatically jump to 'the person suggesting this is a farmer'.
Why? Because AE is something often meant for fun; something to do to break away from the missions of the game in order to have some fun with some user-created content. If you were to ask me, I'd have them give NO exp, and only Architect Tickets. Why? Because to me, it's something to do for fun; it's a minigame in itself.
Again, that's just my perspective. Not that popular, I know.
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The issue I have with the present AE system is that it has been implemented in such a way as to punish players from using the biggest feature, the critter creator in a plausible, non-exploitative manner. The mantra of risk vs. reward is simply out of whack when a minion with full armors and build up is given the same reward as a dev minion with a punch attack and couple gunshots.
The only way to fix this is going back to the dev reward metric, which rewards based upon the difficulty of the abilities. This gets real tricky, but I believe is the best way to do it. Fulcrum shift is simply more dangerous than targeting drone.
In other words: How to break AE in a single step.
Like or not, the current system fits the advertised bill of AE pre-I13. It's not made for leveling. It's not made for rewards. It's made for players to share story content with each other.
If you don't like that, and If you don't think the rewards are right, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT AE IS FOR OR WHY IT WAS PUT IN THE GAME.
I wish I could say I was sorry about saying this, but I'm getting a little more than tired of the constant AE's not the same anymore threads, put it back, when the intent behind AE was made perfectly clear before the concept even went into beta. AE now fits the description of AE before I13. Period. Stop. End of Story.
Although no matter how many times I put that line in a post, some smart alek always comes back with a but... but.. but.. but... that leaves me either helpless with laughter, or trying to figure out a polite way to put in an epic facepalm picture, normally deciding to do neither since there wasn't any point in responding.
I think the problem here is that AE did launch with rewards. Players entering the game at that time probably thought that the reward set for AE was... normal... or intended, since they didn't bother to keep track of AE's long development path. In some aspects, some players have been pre-conditioned into thinking that everything in a game must come with an equivalent kill to reward ratio. Well, there is no guarantee by the developers that every defeat in the game is equal. Players are not granted an automatic boon that's equivalent for every action or event that is completed.
Thing is with AE is that there is nothing to fix on the reward side. A lot of players approach AE with the idea that the concept is somehow broken or nerfed because they compare the AE of now with the AE of launch, and the developer-created-content. At best that's a faulty comparison. AE has to be judged by how it accomplish's it's stated goals, and on that front, there are some legitimate complaints.
The file size for stories is actually a little small, although we know the size will double with Going Rogue. The system has a habit of not uploading changes to an already published arc, although since only I, and maybe 3 other people judging from various forum posts have run into this bug, there doesn't seem to be enough data to generate a fix or pinpoint a problem.
These are the kinds of issues the developers should be looking at. Not re-imagining the purpose of AE to fit players desires to level.
I think maybe Greg Dean put this disconnect between what AE is for and what players try to use it for in perspective with a commentary on the MMORPG genre as a whole. Check this link out: http://www.reallifecomics.com/archive/091203.html
JE Saist, AE was advertised as an alternate leveling path from level 1-50. It just was. On the AE Edition boxes, it was specifically listed as such.
So, if people want to use it to level from 1-50, it should remain so.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
JE Saist, AE was advertised as an alternate leveling path from level 1-50. It just was. On the AE Edition boxes, it was specifically listed as such.
So, if people want to use it to level from 1-50, it should remain so. |
So now it's time to screw the lid back down on the mess.
I'd have to look, but I could swear Posi himself said the leveling 1-50 thing as well. Not sure where you're getting the whole "it's not for leveling" thing je_saist.
It can still easily be used for levelling from 1 to 50, I'm partway there on a AE only alt of my own.
No Dev said it was to be a faster way than other content (which it still can be btw).
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JE Saist, AE was advertised as an alternate leveling path from level 1-50. It just was. On the AE Edition boxes, it was specifically listed as such.
So, if people want to use it to level from 1-50, it should remain so. |
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"Alternative" does not necessarily imply "as fast, if not even faster". Assuming you take at least some AE missions that award some xp, you can eventually get to 50 without leaving the building. You just can't do it in three days anymore.
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After reading most of the thread spawned by my Abusing Mission Architect post, I figured I needed to follow up on a few of the points I brought up. You guys had a lot of the same questions, so I think I can answer them FAQ style.
Q) If I powerlevelled a character, am I going to lose them?
A) Probably not. Only the worst of the worst, exploitive, powerlevelled characters will be removed from the game. We dont take retroactive punishments lightly, but some offenses are so egregious that no one would question their intent and those ill-gotten gains should be dealt with. I just want to emphasize that no one is looking to punish anyone here, but rather remove the rewards of exploitive behavior.
Q) Are you going to give us an absolute definition of what abuse is?
A) I know a lot of you want to know an exact definition to see if you were actually abusing the system, or just playing the game, but I dont want to be set up in a situation where our definition of abuse is abused. For example, if we say that the definition is you gained 4 levels in under 30 minutes, then someone will make sure that they gain 4 levels in 31 minutes, so they can claim they were within the allowed limits and not abusing. Someone said it best that the definition of reckless driving is purposely ambiguous, being Disregard for safety. With this example, I would say that a good interpretation of abuse is Disregard for the risk and/or time to reward ratio.
One of the AE Tips explicitly says you can use it to level from 1-50.
Like or not, the current system fits the advertised bill of AE pre-I13. It's not made for power leveling. It's not made for farming rewards. It's made for players to share story content with each other.
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The devs said about a brazillion times between the announcement of the first real details of the Mission Architect and the time issue 14 launched that they were going to crack down on farming practices, because the AE was made for player developed content and warned us against exploiting it.
I'm getting really tired of people saying "I didn't know!" or "But if that's how everybody wants to use it, shouldn't you just leave it that way?" but I suppose that's another argument for another (very flame-filled) thread.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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The system has a habit of not uploading changes to an already published arc, although since only I, and maybe 3 other people judging from various forum posts have run into this bug, there doesn't seem to be enough data to generate a fix or pinpoint a problem. |
You have to refresh the browser after uploading any changes to an arc (including, AFAIK, creating it). Otherwise if you open the arc for editing again you get the old version.
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I'd be curious to see just how dismal the numbers for AE usage are now, probably comparable to the ghost-town that PvP has become I would guess.
Just my unscientific observation, but this game seems to be more and more about penalties and limitations, and even though we were promised that in time ED would all make sence, I don't find Inventions to have been such a great boon to the game. It's definitly something else to do, but it's no more than a distraction as is AE now.
It must really be discouraging to put SO much time and effort into creating and then loudly touting portions of the game that can be, and are, ignored by so many.
I remember when I first started playing, I was in The Hollows trying not to get killed, when I saw this high level hero casually Super Jumping by me heading for the Atlas Gate. A few minutes later hundreds of baddies appeared like a giant swarm of locusts pouring by in pursuit, flowing over buildings, cars and fences like tsunami chasing after the other hero. It was one of those Holy Shite! moments we don't get to have in this game anymore. And I for one miss it. The pre-ED Heroes of this game could have demolished the Rikti Mothership and rebuilt the city with the scrap metal on their way to breakfast...
Travel Suppression is this game's worst feature, well that and MetaHumans riding mass transit like tourists at DisneyLand.
I remember when I first started playing, I was in The Hollows trying not to get killed, when I saw this high level hero casually Super Jumping by me heading for the Atlas Gate. A few minutes later hundreds of baddies appeared like a giant swarm of locusts pouring by in pursuit, flowing over buildings, cars and fences like tsunami chasing after the other hero. It was one of those Holy Shite! moments we don't get to have in this game anymore. And I for one miss it. The pre-ED Heroes of this game could have demolished the Rikti Mothership and rebuilt the city with the scrap metal on their way to breakfast...
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![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Also, nice of you to ignore (or even better, not even know) that when I was level 5-14, there was no Hollows. We spent hours lost in Perez Park and we liked--er... tolerated it.
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Not every change may be a good one, but the game is leaps and bounds better than it was when it first launched.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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The issue I have with the present AE system is that it has been implemented in such a way as to punish players from using the biggest feature, the critter creator in a plausible, non-exploitative manner. The mantra of risk vs. reward is simply out of whack when a minion with full armors and build up is given the same reward as a dev minion with a punch attack and couple gunshots.
The only way to fix this is going back to the dev reward metric, which rewards based upon the difficulty of the abilities. This gets real tricky, but I believe is the best way to do it. Fulcrum shift is simply more dangerous than targeting drone. |
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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I personally liked a suggestion by... forgot who... on how to make custom critter xp work with a formula similar to Attacks*(1+BuffsAndSupport).
That would make a cirtter that takes no attacks never give XP but reward more for annoying critters with many utility powers on top of plenty of attacks.
The only thing I'd say about AE rewards is that it seems to make sense to me that if regular missions and Oro missions give an end of mission and end of arc reward bonus, AE missions and arcs should too. I don't know if that's feasible or not though. I missed the whole AE farming period.
The only thing I'd say about AE rewards is that it seems to make sense to me that if regular missions and Oro missions give an end of mission and end of arc reward bonus, AE missions and arcs should too. I don't know if that's feasible or not though. I missed the whole AE farming period.
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And even if they fix that, you could still make a mission with no enemies in it that ends when you click a glowie. Again, you'd be violating the risk/reward ratio the developers are working so hard to maintain.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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JE Saist, AE was advertised as an alternate leveling path from level 1-50. It just was. On the AE Edition boxes, it was specifically listed as such.
So, if people want to use it to level from 1-50, it should remain so. |
Takes a look at his physical box of Architect Edition
Nowhere on the box is there any mention of any kind of alternate leveling path. All that is mentioned is that players can create missions and storyarcs with the City of Heroes community.
Any other claims about alternate leveling paths came from either interviews or other things, not the retail box!
As to the OP's suggestion, AE is fine for the most part right now, IMHO. Are there tweaks and features that could/should be added? Yes. But it's working fine now as the Devs intended.
Thank you for the time...
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While that would be nice, it's also possible to make a mission that completes as soon as you enter it. You would be getting a mission bonus for nothing more than entering a mission. And even if they fix that, you could still make a mission with no enemies in it that ends when you click a glowie. Again, you'd be violating the risk/reward ratio the developers are working so hard to maintain. |
I don't know if those types of missions have been addressed, but people that wanted me to sit at the door when I was coming up in CoV tended to approach PLing that way. It was mostly to grab the end of mission reward quickl.
I do think, as an author, that I'd like to see some things equalized for purely selfish reasons. If the rewards were equalized, I think more people would be likely to experience my story... (even if that's not necessarily primarily what they are using MA for).
Hi Devs,
you've created a great system with the AE, but custom critters have been nerfed beyond recognition. Really, they're way too hard for the rewards on offer.
Here's how to fix that without upsetting anyone:
Short Version:
Allow players the option of full rewards on AE missions with custom critters, if they accept a cap on the percentage of xp they can earn off of AE missions (per week) equivalent to approximately 3 levels.
Longer Version:
Codewise, the solution involves calculating what percentage of a given 'level' a player earned off of AE missions. If I got 25% of a level off of an AE mission, then I've used up 1/12 of my allotted maximum, for instance. Once you max out on levels gained, you get a popup informing you that custom critters are reduced to their (lower xp) versions. I think that this solution lets people try new arcs without feeling like they are wasting resources that would better be spent leveling, etc. At the same time, it does nothing to penalize those who are using the current system to its fullest.
Comments appreciated.
-IridiumMaster