Quote:
This! The days of "it can't be done" should be long gone by now. BaBs has only stated the challenges to making something like this work, not what motivations would be needed to make it happen. Like weapons customization and power customization before, we will never know what is happening in the backround that move these things from: won't happen to might happen to will happen. I like to think of these suggestions as a consensus on the popularity of an idea, it's potential functionality and usefulness. I don't take much stock in "because the Devs said no" replies anymore, because many of us have found ourselves on the wrong end of a crow sandwich when the opposite occurs.
|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I'd like to see more positive ideas like this rather than negative ones. I get kind of tired hearing "no no no no" all the time.
I recall a similar discussion a few years ago about adding costumes and I asked, with complete ignorance that I acknowledged at the time, why we couldn't have costume "shells" that layered on top of the character's frame. Perhaps it's serendipity as the things may have already been in the pipeline, but about a year after I asked that we got coats, jackets and vests of all kinds added to the game which work like shells layered atop the existing costumes. So maybe there is some way to do size-changing that doesn't involve massive amounts of work. After all, when someone throws Tenebrous Tentacles on a GM, those tentacles are likewise giant. So it seems like there's *some* sort of size check the game does. As far as the "giants being indoors" thing, I'm sure there must be some check the game can do to see where you are and gray out that power if the location is inappropriate. We were told that re-coloring powers was impossible because they were "baked in" to the game engine, yet a way was found to do that. If there's one thing the Devs have impressed me with over the years, it's their sheer inventiveness. Just getting people thinking about this may present a solution that is relatively easy to implement. |
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
As much as growing big or getting real small might seam....
The only thing this will do is having people a huge bunch of them...get the powers and do the usual things that players do.
I.e. a bunch of giant guys dancing around in atlas park....a bunch of giant guys dileberatly sitting ontop of or in front of or in the middle of anything that might be an event or something that other people are doing....which would include everything from using kiosks or conatacts to using the black market/wentworths to even using mission architect and even pocket D.(surprisingly i have not seen anyone with a huge character block the trams or the guards at the zone entrences very much...but i suspect after i post this....or in the near future i will)
That is what will happen, that is what always happens in these types of games.
Every game i have played that has featured giant anything.....this kind of behavior happens....from Star wars Galaxies with people pulling out 3 Kimogillas inthe cantina to Final Fantasy XI with the gaulkas using mounts and just idling away infront of people while they tried to use the auction house.
Its a fact that this would be abused and used to annoy other players...before it would actualy be used seriously.(really sad when you think about it)
Sorry...but lets look at this game now....i mean do people have to start using freezing rain or cast bubbles or ice armor on people using the consignment places? No they dont.....they do it to annoy and cause trouble...
And thats unfortunately what these neat powers would cause to happen even more.
I am not saying they are bad...they are actualy really neat for ideas and would be great for serious players...but the fact is....that the majority of the players who play any of the online games...are not serious and will mess around like i gave examples of.
I mean just how serious can a player be who calls his character Fart Gas...i dont want to even mention some of the other names i have seen becasue those are definately banning type things.
Quote:
Once again, logic that's sadly lacking in the logic.| So maybe there is some way to do size-changing that doesn't involve massive amounts of work. After all, when someone throws Tenebrous Tentacles on a GM, those tentacles are likewise giant. So it seems like there's *some* sort of size check the game does. As far as the "giants being indoors" thing, I'm sure there must be some check the game can do to see where you are and gray out that power if the location is inappropriate. |
BaB's already gave the explanation for this. Let me requote it since you and Anti-Proton completely missed it.
Quote:
|
There's a difference between setting the scale of an entity and changing the scale of an entity...much less doing that via the powers system. I can make a 400 foot tall fire imp in about 10 seconds by changing a couple of values in a script. But I can't do that via a power, I can't make the imp actually grow to be 400 foot, there's nothing to prevent me from doing that in an office map or while standing under an overpass, and there's nothing to fix the dozens of different problems that come from having a giant anything in the game...much less a giant something that's player controlled. |
Quote:
I'm sorry, but that's just not true. As much as I think size changing powers are more trouble than it can be worth, power effects like that always scale to the character size. Small player character: small vines, small force bubble; big character: big vines, big force bubble e.g.
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Once again, logic that's sadly lacking in the logic.
BaB's already gave the explanation for this. Let me requote it since you and Anti-Proton completely missed it. The animations for these powers that suddenly seem gigantic are animated against the Giant Monster, at the Giant Monster's scale. there's no Size Check going on at all. What's happening is you trigger an attack, the giant monster registers the attack, the system looks through the list of animations for an effect that matches the effect, then plays that Animation. Since the animation is already Pre-Scaled to fit the Giant Monster, you see a giant version of your status effect.. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PsychicKitty
I mean just how serious can a player be who calls his character Fart Gas...i dont want to even mention some of the other names i have seen becasue those are definately banning type things.
|
What did poor Fart Gas ever do to you? And it's a game not everyone take it seriously
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
There's a difference between setting the scale of an entity and changing the scale of an entity...much less doing that via the powers system.
I can make a 400 foot tall fire imp in about 10 seconds by changing a couple of values in a script. But I can't do that via a power, I can't make the imp actually grow to be 400 foot, there's nothing to prevent me from doing that in an office map or while standing under an overpass, and there's nothing to fix the dozens of different problems that come from having a giant anything in the game...much less a giant something that's player controlled. |
In reference to the bolded statement, why not?
The ability is already in place to identify our location in an outside map and execute, or prevent the execution of actions. Specifically I am thinking of the Rikti and Zombie raids. When in a building or under an underpass they will not spawn on you, yet in the open they will.
On a basic level it seems that this type of position based logic could be applied to this type of situation. In general is there a reason why it could not?
You know...you could just simulate this by getting the science booster pack...the fighting pool and the leadership pool.
Create a large character costume.
Create a small character costume.
When your character is large...toggle on Tough and Assault and turn off sprint.
When your character is small...toggle on Weave and Maneuvers and turn on sprint.
Quote:
/emote headdesk|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
I'm sorry, but that's just not true. As much as I think size changing powers are more trouble than it can be worth, power effects like that always scale to the character size. Small player character: small vines, small force bubble; big character: big vines, big force bubble e.g.
|
This isn't a hard concept here. Yet you manage to miss it too. Let me see if I can get this across to you.
Have you ever wondered... I mean really wondered... why when you go do a Hero Re specification trial... why... when you have the bubbly buff from the reactor... and you shift forms on an avatar... say on a Stone tank or Kheldian... why the costume changes on the player, but the bubble size remains the same?
There is a difference between setting the size and scale of an animation that's played on an avatar versus the avatar's current size in the system, and CHANGING that size by a player created power. BaB's already made it perfectly clear that yes, he can go in, probably with Phosyb's help, and set the size and scale of any object in the game. Yes, he could make a 500 ft tall fire imp, and I think several of us want to see one stomping down Liberty Lane in Atlas Park. EXPOSING that capability via a PLAYER POWER SET is not in the base source code. That is what is not in the engine.
Do you now get this simple concept?
After reading through this thread I had what I thought was a great idea.
Size change would be an excellent alternate animation to add to some power pools [When they get around to that]
For example, in Stealth, Invisibility and Phase, you become smaller. In stealth you become just kinda small [Rikti Monkey size perhaps] so it is difficult for enemies to see you. Invisibility you are bug size [This could be accomplished perhaps by making your character translucent and replacing it with a small black dot running around] and finally with phased you are so microscopic that you cannot be affected by the larger world.
They could even add a small size boost to powers like Tough.
"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force
Source-code rewriting is pretty serious business when it comes to this game. Power customisation needed at least a year of work to get even as far as the Primary/Secondary sets and only because it was the most highly requested feature since the game began.
For the Size manipulation set to be feasible, a very high percentage of the userbase would want to 'have' access to a set like this in the future, to the degree of how 'everybody' wanted to see power customisation. Then, if there's room in the schedules, they would see that the userbase wants to see this power and proceed with the hard work in rewriting the source code to make it work
In fact, from the way some people are saying this, they would only start to consider rewriting the code if it would actually bring new subscribers and old subscribers back, the ones who left the game and would be highly interested in returning if a size-change power were implemented. Size manipulation sounds like a set for concept characters than the entire userbase.
If the powerset isn't trashed, it's most likely going to be the bottom of the backburner pile, the place where they implement ideas only after they've done everything else and there's nothing else to implement before it. And that could take a while.
Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero
Quote:
While all of that may be true, which I cant know since I am note of the devs mentioned, it makes claiming there is only one normal sized and one giant sized premade animation for each power effect no less wrong.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
/emote headdesk
This isn't a hard concept here. Yet you manage to miss it too. Let me see if I can get this across to you. Have you ever wondered... I mean really wondered... why when you go do a Hero Re specification trial... why... when you have the bubbly buff from the reactor... and you shift forms on an avatar... say on a Stone tank or Kheldian... why the costume changes on the player, but the bubble size remains the same? There is a difference between setting the size and scale of an animation that's played on an avatar versus the avatar's current size in the system, and CHANGING that size by a player created power. BaB's already made it perfectly clear that yes, he can go in, probably with Phosyb's help, and set the size and scale of any object in the game. Yes, he could make a 500 ft tall fire imp, and I think several of us want to see one stomping down Liberty Lane in Atlas Park. EXPOSING that capability via a PLAYER POWER SET is not in the base source code. That is what is not in the engine. Do you now get this simple concept? |
Which is all I said. I never said "But Size Changing iz Pozziobel Becuz I knowz It!"
I'd just like to see a growth power that tops out at 12-15' or so, and maybe a shrink that drops a character down to monkey size. Being able to go eye-to-pumpkin with a Streng has always been a dream of mine.
Tatterdamalion 50 AR/Dev Liberty /Defiance 1.0 for Life...uh Death!!!!
Genghis Connie 50 MA/SR Liberty /What do you mean Hami ignores Defense?
Quote:
I kind of see what you mean but I wouldn't agree on size-changes for the existing stealth powers. The reason I suggested using a stealth buff/debuff for the size powers was because of the fact that giants are hard not to see, while smaller characters are quite hard to notice. It just doesn't seem logical to be size-changed just for using stealth based powers. In my opinion, what you're suggesting sounds like alternate animations perfect for a signature hero/villain rather than the general userbase.|
Originally Posted by Jake_Summers
After reading through this thread I had what I thought was a great idea.
Size change would be an excellent alternate animation to add to some power pools [When they get around to that] For example, in Stealth, Invisibility and Phase, you become smaller. In stealth you become just kinda small [Rikti Monkey size perhaps] so it is difficult for enemies to see you. Invisibility you are big size [This could be accomplished perhaps by making your character translucent and replacing it with a small black dot running around] and finally with phased you are so microscopic that you cannot be affected by the larger world. They could even add a small size boost to powers like Tough. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tatterdamalion
I'd just like to see a growth power that tops out at 12-15' or so, and maybe a shrink that drops a character down to monkey size. Being able to go eye-to-pumpkin with a Streng has always been a dream of mine.
|
Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero
Reminds me of this guy
IIRC he ony grew to about 25' max, but his strength increased exponentially.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
I have posted and hoped for this for years.
Got a pm from castle on the matter and how it wasn't happening
That lead to my defect to CO for a year back now
That game has other problems
I understand limitations especially note in caves the cot ones
Hate them anyway. I got a bunch of 8 foot bruisers
Being able to double size would be awesome I keep hoping
I would like to see it as a powerset for tanks and brutes
I know they say no One question then
If we cant have it how come you have to tease me with in game
Mythology atlas statue right there. Read the plaques about his exploits
Are there any other people talked about with powers we can't have?
Quote:
*whistle*|
Originally Posted by freonfreak
I have posted and hoped for this for years.
Got a pm from castle on the matter and how it wasn't happening That lead to my defect to CO for a year back now That game has other problems I understand limitations especially note in caves the cot ones Hate them anyway. I got a bunch of 8 foot bruisers Being able to double size would be awesome I keep hoping I would like to see it as a powerset for tanks and brutes I know they say no One question then If we cant have it how come you have to tease me with in game Mythology atlas statue right there. Read the plaques about his exploits Are there any other people talked about with powers we can't have? |
Man, a necro post AND a compare/contrast to other games. Niiiiiiice. I give it a 8.7 on the Bad Post scale.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
...a two YEAR necropost?
Is that some new kinda record, or something? Sheesh...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Ok sorry this is what happens when you walk away
And forget that you were searching for past stuff
My bad
Was just trying to see if things had changed in that time
It's hard to see the dates on this phone
Locusts.
A flood
It's not my fault.
I recall a similar discussion a few years ago about adding costumes and I asked, with complete ignorance that I acknowledged at the time, why we couldn't have costume "shells" that layered on top of the character's frame. Perhaps it's serendipity as the things may have already been in the pipeline, but about a year after I asked that we got coats, jackets and vests of all kinds added to the game which work like shells layered atop the existing costumes.
So maybe there is some way to do size-changing that doesn't involve massive amounts of work. After all, when someone throws Tenebrous Tentacles on a GM, those tentacles are likewise giant. So it seems like there's *some* sort of size check the game does. As far as the "giants being indoors" thing, I'm sure there must be some check the game can do to see where you are and gray out that power if the location is inappropriate.
We were told that re-coloring powers was impossible because they were "baked in" to the game engine, yet a way was found to do that. If there's one thing the Devs have impressed me with over the years, it's their sheer inventiveness. Just getting people thinking about this may present a solution that is relatively easy to implement.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction