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I don't know about PvP anymore, haven't done anything in there since the changes in I13. But Tough and Weave? I don't use them on my Inv tank, and I have tanked the ITF with him. (He is getting IOed out though. Not finished, but getting there. It does make a difference in his abilities, which is good, because I am not a very experienced team tanker. |
Originally Posted by Code_Red
Just a few examples:
Anything involving PvP. At all. I did ITF today. Invuln Tank. 3/4 Alpha Strikes would kill me. No time to do ANYTHING. Oh, an AV? Either drop unstoppable, or just drop. Needless to say, the amount of damage I was taking? I did -not- feel like a tank. Not one bit. I spent more time in the red than anything else, and it's infuriating. EDIT: As one player told me, "Oh, you need to have Tough and Weave to be a decent tank at the top end". So that's TWO power Pools I'm apparently required to have (Fitness/Fighting) to be able to function worth a crap at the upper tier of the game. Purely ridiculous. |
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Six, not seven. The seventh is Dull pain, which is +MaxHP/+HP, with some toxic resist thrown in (done to all Dull Pains and clones, when the Toxic damage type - note there is still no toxic attack type - was added into the game.)
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Which are more than enough when taken together.
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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Fighting The Future Trilogy
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Invuln got hit hard by the nerf bat in two consecutive issues, but those issues were # 5 and 6, roughly 4 years ago. Since that time Invuln has seen several BUFFS, the first was the overall defense change in issue 7 which made the defense in Invincibility and Tough Hide much more effective. Then we got a fairly major series of buffs in issue 13 about a year ago that RAISED our resistances by about 1/3 and eliminated the -defense in Unyielding among other things. This was absolutely, unquestionably and unarguably a major increase in the sets effectiveness.
In NO way has Invuln been reduced in effectiveness since the nerfs of issue 6.
If I had to guess I'd say that the OP has a build that needs improvement... oh, and it's perfectly possible to tank the ITF without support on a SO enhanced Invuln... it can be done without Tough also; I did it several times on CMA prior to respec'ing into my soft capped build.
OP, please look at your build. You should have the following powers from Invulnerability with this SO slotting:
- Temporary Invulnerability with 3 resist/1 endurance
- Dull Pain with 3 recharge/3 heal
- Unyielding with 3 resist/1 endurance
- Invincibility with 3 defense, 1 endurance & taunt/tohit buff optional in the last 3 slots.
- Resist Physical Damage with 1-3 resist
- Tough Hide with 3 defense
- Fitness pool for Stamina, typically I have Hurdle/Health/Stamina from the pool. 3 End Mod in Stamina, the base slot for Hurdle/Health.
- Resist Energies from your primary with 1-3 resist.
- Either the Medicine pool for Aid Other/Aid Self (the selection I had prior to IO's, Aid Self slotted 3 heal/1-2 interrupt/1-2 recharge) or the Fighting Pool for Boxing/Tough (3 resist/1 end) and possibly Weave (3 defense/1 end)
Invulnerability is, and always has been, a hybrid set mixing resistance, defense and healing/HP boosting (in Dull Pain). That's always been it's strength, the layered protections. First, an incoming attack must beat your defense or you take NO damage, so Defense is your first line of protection. Second, an attack that beats your defense has it's damage reduced by your resistance so attacks that hit do less damage. Third, Dull Pain is a massive heal AND a (slotted) 60% hit point buff so you'll have more HP to back up your first two layers.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Inv IS a resist heavy set. But, it's still a mixed Resist/Defense set.|
Originally Posted by Code_Red
Okay, when the Hell did THIS happen? For the better part of five years (that I'm aware of), Invuln was a Resist-heavy set. When'd they change that?!
...now I'm just confused... |
Now, with one enemy in range, someone slotted out with common IOs will cap at around 17.4% defense (goes up a bit with more in range).
With resistance only, while you wind up not taking a massive portion of damage, sufficiently powerful attacks will kill you anyhow. Defense can stop you from getting hit in the first place.
The hot trend, lately, has been towards getting Inv/* close to, at or above the defense cap. It can be done RELATIVELY inexpensively and produces a tanker that, while not a damage output leader, is on par with a Stone tanker in Granite (without the speed, recharge, or damage penalties).
HOWEVER, such tanks are NOT invincible. A sufficiently large mob, or a sufficiently powerful enemy will still whittle him down. It just takes longer.
The object of such an undertaking isn't to allow the tank to operate free of team support. Merely to require LESS support from said team, freeing them up to support each other, or chuck out more damage at the opponents.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Correct. There ARE other defense-heavy sets out there that outclass a baseline Inv/* tank in defense numbers. HOWEVER, they either don't have the resists that Inv/* does (see EGGSHELLS) or pay for it with other drawbacks (Granite). You may want to take a look at Willpower. It's similar to Inv/*, but where Inv/* is more Resist > Defense, Will is more Resist < Defense.| Let's look at the Invuln powers. It has TWO powers focued on Defense. Invincibility, and Tough Hide. That's it, and ONE of those can only take 3 slots without getting mauled by Diminishing returns. |
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| The other SEVEN powers are Resistance exclusively? That strikes me as a pretty massive freaking screw up in the design department. |
High-yield alpha-strikes are still a problem for EVERYONE though.
Realistically, with your build the way you are now, you're tough enough to take on 90+% of the content in the game without appreciable support. The other 10% of the content is stuff that is either designed to prey on your particular combo's weaknesses or just ungodly tough.
You have two choices.
1: Put together a decent support structure (see TEAM)
2: Look for ways to optimize your build.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Agreed. My level 50 SS/Invul Brute totally rules that wall. No ifs ands or buts about it.|
Originally Posted by fallenz
Poking my head into this thread to say when Roman zone come out I took my Kat/INV scrapper up to the wall. I got pwned. I asked my coaltion for some help. Guess what was wrong. Not my power choices (no tough/weave) but my play style. I was not using my defesnse aura or parry at all. Try number two, I own the wall. BTW, with just at the time common IOs in all my powers and HOs. What Im trying to say to the OP, chill and work on your play style a little. You will find that your tanker is fine, you use need to learn how to deal with the Romans.
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And still no Fighting pool. Go fig.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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Are you RPing a basement dwelling mouth breather who nerd rages over changes to a game they havent played in almost 2 years right now?|
Originally Posted by Code_Red
Way to only read part of my post, Dumpleberry. Even when my account was off, that didn't stop me from RPing with people over other programs. I never ONCE said I expected to do what I could pre-I4. Not once. That's an assumption YOU made.
I would have liked to at least be able to take a mob's ALPHA strike without being completely in the red. Maybe then I'd feel like, I dunno, a TANK? But screw it. The mechanics make no damned sense to me anymore, and I just don't give enough of a damn to bother. I'll just go back to my PS3 until TOR is released. Been fun. |
If so good game.
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Originally Posted by Code_Red
Way to only read part of my post, Dumpleberry. Even when my account was off, that didn't stop me from RPing with people over other programs. I never ONCE said I expected to do what I could pre-I4. Not once. That's an assumption YOU made.
I would have liked to at least be able to take a mob's ALPHA strike without being completely in the red. Maybe then I'd feel like, I dunno, a TANK? But screw it. The mechanics make no damned sense to me anymore, and I just don't give enough of a damn to bother. I'll just go back to my PS3 until TOR is released. Been fun. |
out of on the /ragequit meter...
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Just for the record: the mechanics have not changed much in in over three years. At least not in any significant way. Nor has the old content. The new content can all be done without using any of the new systems, though it is easier with them.
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Originally Posted by Code_Red
But screw it. The mechanics make no damned sense to me anymore, and I just don't give enough of a damn to bother. I'll just go back to my PS3 until TOR is released. Been fun.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Sorry, you're wrong too.|
Originally Posted by Justice Blues
Sorry, wrong answer. Dull Pain does not have and has never had Toxic resists. Healing Flame does, Reconstruction does, but Dull Pain does not. The only Toxic resists that Invulnerability has come in Unyielding and Unstoppable.
Which are more than enough when taken together. |
I was thinking dull pain because they like to put the Toxic resistance in the heals, and I could of sworn they had it in Dull Pain. Checking Paragonwiki.com, I realized I was thinking of Stone's DP clone.
While Unyielding and Unstoppable both have +Toxic, Resist Elements does too.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Another person who doesn't want advice, they want everyone agreeing with them.
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Resist Elements? Who the heck takes Res...|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Sorry, you're wrong too.
I was thinking dull pain because they like to put the Toxic resistance in the heals, and I could of sworn they had it in Dull Pain. Checking Paragonwiki.com, I realized I was thinking of Stone's DP clone. While Unyielding and Unstoppable both have +Toxic, Resist Elements does too. |
Oh yeah, I do.
Never mind.
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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Fighting The Future Trilogy
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Why would anyone want a game to stay the same year after year after year?
Btw I'm n00b.
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I have it on my farming Brute cause it allows me to resist slow and recharge debuffs. Plus there's a sizeable amount of baddies who use flamethrowers.
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Originally Posted by Justice Blues
Resist Elements? Who the heck takes Res...
Oh yeah, I do. Never mind. |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Seeya.
It takes a concerted effort for me to deliberately try to force mobs onto her tank to even challenge her. This is using force bub on my /FF to push 8+ mobs onto her during final ITF encounters with Rommie or as many 54 rikti on top of her herds during a ship raid. I think she is amused by my attempts to kill her in a Pink Panther sort of way.
I'm pretty sure the OP wants to be mad and wants to stay mad. Until s/he decides to calm down there's nothing anyone can do to help him/her.