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They don't build people like they used to!
| I dont know *why* Romans hit harder than anything else |
Hey, if you had to run around in a toga or a silly armored kilt all day, you'd hit hard too.
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
That opens a whole new can of worms.
Let's look at the Invuln powers. It has TWO powers focued on Defense. Invincibility, and Tough Hide. That's it, and ONE of those can only take 3 slots without getting mauled by Diminishing returns.
The other SEVEN powers are Resistance exclusively? That strikes me as a pretty massive freaking screw up in the design department.
Yes, I'm pretty bloody agitated by this, mostly due to the fact that I have closing on 6 years worth of RP, playtime, and thought invested into something that doesn't apparently matter for anything. ...starting to wonder why I should bother playing, let alone making an alt that most likely will end up in the SAME situation somewhere down the line...
You just said you quit for a year and a half. Also, it would appear that you're not as on top of the powersets as you thought you were. Finally, if you're disappointed that your character can't solo every single critter in the game...well too bad.
I actually have a level 50 kat/regen with NO enhancements at all. ZERO. He plays pretty well. Stop setting yourself up for a fall, and you'll enjoy the game more. Also, you're still permitted to, frankly, just not like the game.
Good luck either way! 
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Six, not seven. The seventh is Dull pain, which is +MaxHP/+HP, with some toxic resist thrown in (done to all Dull Pains and clones, when the Toxic damage type - note there is still no toxic attack type - was added into the game.)|
Originally Posted by Code_Red
That opens a whole new can of worms.
Let's look at the Invuln powers. It has TWO powers focued on Defense. Invincibility, and Tough Hide. That's it, and ONE of those can only take 3 slots without getting mauled by Diminishing returns. The other SEVEN powers are Resistance exclusively? That strikes me as a pretty massive freaking screw up in the design department. Yes, I'm pretty bloody agitated by this, mostly due to the fact that I have closing on 6 years worth of RP, playtime, and thought invested into something that doesn't apparently matter for anything. ...starting to wonder why I should bother playing, let alone making an alt that most likely will end up in the SAME situation somewhere down the line... |
And I noticed you haven't mentioned which /invuln powers you have, mind listing them? Also/or use one of the planners here to show your /invuln build?
And as to the Tough/WEave thing - many people have said you need those on anything but a stone tank for years, it's never been true.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Well, it was certainly true a year and half ago, when you mentioned that you last played. A lot of people mistakenly think of Invul as primarily a resist set, though less now that previously. I suspect this attitude dates back to the pre-defense nerf days, when Invul had defense, but its resist numbers were so high that the defense was basically redundant.|
Originally Posted by Code_Red
Okay, when the Hell did THIS happen? For the better part of five years (that I'm aware of), Invuln was a Resist-heavy set. When'd they change that?!
...now I'm just confused... |
The defense aspects of Invul have gotten more attention recently, since using IOs to get defense bonuses is a much more viable strategy than raising resist totals.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Way to only read part of my post, Dumpleberry. Even when my account was off, that didn't stop me from RPing with people over other programs. I never ONCE said I expected to do what I could pre-I4. Not once. That's an assumption YOU made.
I would have liked to at least be able to take a mob's ALPHA strike without being completely in the red. Maybe then I'd feel like, I dunno, a TANK?
But screw it. The mechanics make no damned sense to me anymore, and I just don't give enough of a damn to bother. I'll just go back to my PS3 until TOR is released. Been fun.
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Who said Invul's resistance no longer matters? No one but you that I've seen. The fact that Invul is the only tanker primary that can routinely cap S/L resists is a huge part of its strength as a set. Capping requires Tough, but even without it Invul has more S/L resistance than any other set outside of the Tier 9s.|
Originally Posted by Code_Red
That opens a whole new can of worms.
Let's look at the Invuln powers. It has TWO powers focued on Defense. Invincibility, and Tough Hide. That's it, and ONE of those can only take 3 slots without getting mauled by Diminishing returns. The other SEVEN powers are Resistance exclusively? That strikes me as a pretty massive freaking screw up in the design department. Yes, I'm pretty bloody agitated by this, mostly due to the fact that I have closing on 6 years worth of RP, playtime, and thought invested into something that doesn't apparently matter for anything. ...starting to wonder why I should bother playing, let alone making an alt that most likely will end up in the SAME situation somewhere down the line... |
Defense is particularly significant in this discussion because your problem was with fighting Cimerorans, which employ defense debuffs to a degree that no other mobs do, to my knowledge. Believe me, as difficult as you found them, an all-defense set like Shield or Ice have it even worse, since they don't have that level of S/L resists to fall back on.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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Probably not a very well built team. Because you can be the ********* tank ingame and not need set bonuses to tank. As long as you have a good emp defender that uses buffs, auras and heals or a force field, cold domination or sonic defender you should be good to go. About the only places where you REALLY need sets are in the statesman tf and they can make mothership raids alot easier as well. |
Originally Posted by Code_Red
Just a few examples:
Anything involving PvP. At all. I did ITF today. Invuln Tank. 3/4 Alpha Strikes would kill me. No time to do ANYTHING. Oh, an AV? Either drop unstoppable, or just drop. Needless to say, the amount of damage I was taking? I did -not- feel like a tank. Not one bit. I spent more time in the red than anything else, and it's infuriating. EDIT: As one player told me, "Oh, you need to have Tough and Weave to be a decent tank at the top end". So that's TWO power Pools I'm apparently required to have (Fitness/Fighting) to be able to function worth a crap at the upper tier of the game. Purely ridiculous. |
Sets however will help you on the really bad teams with those defenders that would rather blast than defend. God forbid a support class not play well... um support? There are alot of really really terrible defenders nowdays though, I think its a big result of the AE babies syndrome that you probably were not here for.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
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This isn't a weakness, this is a strength. Many sets focus on defense or resistance almost exclusively but what a lot of people forget is that Defense and Resistance effectively multiply when they stack rather than add. Invulnerability provides both Defense and Resistance which is better than providing one alone. There's also the advantage that enemies tend to be able to counter one of these but not both. For example Overseers in the Shadow Shard have a HUGE To Hit buff that basically renders defense irrelevant so defense based powers sets are useless against them (a Shield tanker would need buffs from at least two FF defenders to make a noticeable difference against them). Conversely Invulnerability has both defense and resistance so if one is countered it can still fall back on the other. in your particular case Cimeroans are countering your defense and your resistance alone is not enough. There are plenty of ways you can deal with this, the simplest is to take along a Defender with some Defense buffs to boost your own abilities but as others have noted it is perfectly possible for an Invuln tanker to tank ITF without the fighting pool or IOs.|
Originally Posted by Code_Red
Let's look at the Invuln powers. It has TWO powers focued on Defense. Invincibility, and Tough Hide. That's it, and ONE of those can only take 3 slots without getting mauled by Diminishing returns.
The other SEVEN powers are Resistance exclusively? That strikes me as a pretty massive freaking screw up in the design department. |
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| Yes, I'm pretty bloody agitated by this, mostly due to the fact that I have closing on 6 years worth of RP, playtime, and thought invested into something that doesn't apparently matter for anything. ...starting to wonder why I should bother playing, let alone making an alt that most likely will end up in the SAME situation somewhere down the line... |
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Agreed. More recently, it is probably the change to Unyielding that has made the set more Defense oriented. Previously you were overcoming the -5% Def in Unyielding with your other Defense powers, that was folded into Invincibility, and allowed the DDR, which previously would have reduced Uny's debuff, I'm guessing. Even though supposedly there was no overall change in Defense, I believe one effect was better Def with smaller number of foes around you.|
Originally Posted by Finduilas
I suspect this attitude dates back to the pre-defense nerf days, when Invul had defense, but its resist numbers were so high that the defense was basically redundant.
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And you should be able to take an Alpha Strike. If the problem is Cimerorans, if they haven't hit you yet, then they haven't debuffed your Def yet, so you should be able to take it. If you are not, the only thing I can think of is you don't have enough foes in melee, and the alpha strike is coming at you from range. I know that's what usually gets me, but I'm assuming you already know all that.
AFAIK, no real changes have been made to the Resists, so Inv is numerically better than it has been in the four years since I5. Your base defense is 5% higher, and I believe Inv is better with smaller numbers of foes as well. Likely it is not Inv that has changed, it is the high level mobs in the latest and greatest zones. And they hurt everyone.
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I will say that Invincibility is probably the single most powerful scaling defense in the game (Energy Absorption is not as strong, and Rise to the Challenge won't help you against Alpha Strikes) and thus the other powers are somewhat weak in comparison. An Inv without Invincibility is going to be pretty crippled, and it's always an issue when a Set depends too much on one Power. Still, that's the way it's been since the Global Defense Nerf, and I don't see it changing. And at least Inv has a broad range of defense types, unlike Shield or SR.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
This isn't a weakness, this is a strength.
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*re-reads thread* That was me making that assumption? It doesn't look that way from over here. |
Originally Posted by Code_Red
Way to only read part of my post, Dumpleberry. Even when my account was off, that didn't stop me from RPing with people over other programs. I never ONCE said I expected to do what I could pre-I4. Not once. That's an assumption YOU made.
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Also, that sentence of yours appears to deliberately refer to six years of RP and playtime. If you didn't actually mean to write that, I think you can forgive my confusion.
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| But screw it. The mechanics make no damned sense to me anymore, and I just don't give enough of a damn to bother. I'll just go back to my PS3 until TOR is released. Been fun. |
We'll help, if you'll let us.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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My inv tanker doesn't have the problems you describe with the Cimeroans including the alpha strike. He also doesn't have the mentioned pool powers or special (purple/PvP) IOs that people say you have to have.
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Originally Posted by Code_Red
Way to only read part of my post, Dumpleberry. Even when my account was off, that didn't stop me from RPing with people over other programs. I never ONCE said I expected to do what I could pre-I4. Not once. That's an assumption YOU made.
I would have liked to at least be able to take a mob's ALPHA strike without being completely in the red. Maybe then I'd feel like, I dunno, a TANK? But screw it. The mechanics make no damned sense to me anymore, and I just don't give enough of a damn to bother. I'll just go back to my PS3 until TOR is released. Been fun. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Originally Posted by Code_Red
But screw it. The mechanics make no damned sense to me anymore, and I just don't give enough of a damn to bother. I'll just go back to my PS3 until TOR is released. Been fun.
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WOW, I can't believe I get to use this graphic more than once in the same day!
I think the moral of this thread is...
Ignorance is bliss.
I think the OP needs to take a chill pill.
Just so I can be clear (and cause I'm lazy to go read the entire thread), did the OP quit before ED? If so...oh boy.
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According to the OP, they didn't quit; they just RP'd out of the context of the game, and without an active account.
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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
I think the OP needs to take a chill pill.
Just so I can be clear (and cause I'm lazy to go read the entire thread), did the OP quit before ED? If so...oh boy. |
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Really? Yet that's how it has ALWAYS been. Also, invuln is regarded by many people as the second-toughest set (after stone).
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Originally Posted by Code_Red
That opens a whole new can of worms.
Let's look at the Invuln powers. It has TWO powers focued on Defense. Invincibility, and Tough Hide. That's it, and ONE of those can only take 3 slots without getting mauled by Diminishing returns. The other SEVEN powers are Resistance exclusively? That strikes me as a pretty massive freaking screw up in the design department. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
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Yet my invuln can tank anything in the game, up to and including Lord Recluse in the Statesman task force. At this point, I think we have to conclude that the problems lie elsewhere than the invuln set.|
Originally Posted by Code_Red
I would have liked to at least be able to take a mob's ALPHA strike without being completely in the red. Maybe then I'd feel like, I dunno, a TANK?
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| But screw it. The mechanics make no damned sense to me anymore, and I just don't give enough of a damn to bother. I'll just go back to my PS3 until TOR is released. Been fun. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Poking my head into this thread to say when Roman zone come out I took my Kat/INV scrapper up to the wall. I got pwned. I asked my coaltion for some help. Guess what was wrong. Not my power choices (no tough/weave) but my play style. I was not using my defesnse aura or parry at all. Try number two, I own the wall. BTW, with just at the time common IOs in all my powers and HOs. What Im trying to say to the OP, chill and work on your play style a little. You will find that your tanker is fine, you use need to learn how to deal with the Romans.
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Hm, I would say third, after WP. WP's numbers don't look as impressive on paper, but all the things contributing at once make it really durable. Even against S/L heavy enemies, where Invuln is supposed to excel, I've only noticed that WP does just as good if not better. WP gets the benefit of also doing well against Rikti, Carnies, or other psi or energy heavy gangs.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Really? Yet that's how it has ALWAYS been. Also, invuln is regarded by many people as the second-toughest set (after stone).
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But I farm using an Invuln Brute, so... it's not like it's weak. And if nothing else I'd say it's AT LEAST the third best.
EDIT: And by the latest posts by the OP, does anyone else get the vibe that he didn't take any of the DEF powers because "Invuln is a RES set" ?
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I do not understand that. I went the RES route on IOing out my scrapper but I made sure my DEF powers were slotted too. I'm not soft capped but I got some good numbers to stay in the game and do the job my teammates want me to: FLIP OUT AND DESTROY S*&^!
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Hm, I would say third, after WP. WP's numbers don't look as impressive on paper, but all the things contributing at once make it really durable. Even against S/L heavy enemies, where Invuln is supposed to excel, I've only noticed that WP does just as good if not better. WP gets the benefit of also doing well against Rikti, Carnies, or other psi or energy heavy gangs.
But I farm using an Invuln Brute, so... it's not like it's weak. And if nothing else I'd say it's AT LEAST the third best. EDIT: And by the latest posts by the OP, does anyone else get the vibe that he didn't take any of the DEF powers because "Invuln is a RES set" ? |
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Then why is he complaining so boldy?
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
According to the OP, they didn't quit; they just RP'd out of the context of the game, and without an active account.
It's not like these changes happened over-night. Yah, Invul isn't as powerful as it USED to be before ED.
But really? Seriously? The OP is complaining about why Invul can no longer herd a 100 bosses in a map? If that is what the OP is complaining about, then here's my response: lulz.
If not, then I still don't see what he's complaining about. No character in this game NEEDS IOs to be powerful. As the developers have mentioned times and times again, they did not increase the difficulty of the game after introducing IOs. Cimerorans are designed specifically to excel at melee combat, and without the right STRATEGY, they can squash ANY character. Note how I used the word STRATEGY and not BUILD.
If you're (talking to the OP) complaining that the game is too challenging for you, then lower the difficulty. If you're complaining that the game is too challenging for you, and you do not wish to lower difficulty, and you do not wish to take advantage of a whole new dimension the game offers for the sake of having a more "1337" character, and you do not wish to change your strategy or your build, then the door is right there. It was nice meeting you!
Change happens. Adapt. Evolve. I don't understand why the concept of evolution is so hard to understand in these boards.
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'cause. That's why.
| I don't understand why the concept of evolution is so hard to understand in these boards. |