What is the most UNDERpowered Brute Primary?

Just a casual poll.

I'd vote for Energy Melee or Dual Blades.

Energy Melee just doesn't seem to have the mitigation to be as useful as some of the other primaries.

But Dual Blades, I suspect, is only UP outside of the "right hands". Idk as I have never really given it a go.

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yeah energy melee is pretty lackluster now. I have tried numerous times to get back into it on my original main but it aint gonna happen. Ive modded the build multiple times in many different ways and it does not work out. Its style doesnt seem to mesh well with the brute smashy ways.

Dual blades on the other hand seems to play pretty well. Its pretty average all around.

seriously though, what is the role of an energy melee brute? What is their strength supposed to be? Sticky fingers? Mine just seems to punch dead guys reeeeally hard.

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No primaries really come to mind when I try to think of one that isn't as good as the others, but I have to agree that, due to the animation times, EM is fairly lackluster, although I'm sure there are still people who play the set well.

The only other sets I can think of that would be underpowered are sets that have a tough time building fury, maybe BA or stone?

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Hmm.....I say EM. Possibly WM maybe, I only say war mace cause its like that for tanks, could be diffrent for brutes.

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I have both EM and dual blades. At least Dual Blades looks good and does subpar damage. EM is just plain bad. Unbearably bad. Slow, clunky, no AoE, and just bad. Just my opinion- so feel free to disagree. The most exciting thing about my EM brute is changing the color of her pompoms and turning on ninja run and running backwards.

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Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.

"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality

List of primaries for Brutes I have at 50

EM, 2xDM, ElecM, FM, 2xSS, SM.

I gotta say I like them all, they have their percs and weaknesses.

Energy Melee, is slow yes. I honestly only had an EM after the changes so I can't compare. Overall the damage dealt seems balanced with animation times. However I hear complaints are that you get slammed mid animations. Again I wouldn't know, mine is a softcapped EM/SR so the synergy works great. Being softcapped allows the animation times of my attacks not to hurt as much. Quickness helps a bit with the recharge times of my attacks. Possibly worse with other sets, it works for me.

Dark Melee, mainly just lacks AoE, but otherwise is a ridiculously powerful set. I have a DM/Stone and DM/Fire, both do great overall.

Electric Melee, massive AoE, but many threads mention its total lack of ST damage. IMO this is the counterpart to Energy Melee. Extreme ST vs Extreme AoE. Takes some fury to get it on part with the damage of other sets. My Elec/WP was my first brute at 50 and it got me addicted to the SMASH!!

Fire Melee, lots of DoT, a heavy dot damage set, provides high damage and no mitigation. I paired it with Shields and softcapped it for mitigation. Lots of damage, but was built as a concept toon so no where near its true potential. The multiple animations of attacks with swords and w/o was a bit annoying though.

Super Strength, this set on a brute is powerful to say the least. However rage crashes are annoying and feel longer then 10 seconds. I have a SS/Fire and SS/WP both geared as farmers. Rage/Haste crash flatlines their endurance bars quick, but well worth the tradeoff.

Stone Melee, Much like fire melee, the multiple animations got on my nerves. I paired it with Energy Aura for the drain and conserve. Softcapped to all types except Neg/Psi. He does alright, I don't play him much TBH. Way too many toons to get to 50.

My experience with brute primaries in a nutshell. I don't feel any set really comes out on top, it all smashes. Which is all that matters to a Brute.

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Wrong forum, no brute primary is underpowered. =p
Some will suck at some part of the game, but they are all good at something.

I deleted my elec when i saw what LR was like, because i was now sure the set didn't have enough ST damage.

Likewise, someone would hate DM and EM if he wants aoe.

BA is the only set that have less damage capability, but it gives lots of mitigation (at least on paper, haven't played it yet)

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"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX

Why the hate for Dual Blades? I've got a DB/SR sittin at 15 now and I'm loving it! Sure, it doesn't smack as hard as KO Blow or the Axe, but it has some pretty steady, high DPS. Combined with Ninja Run, it looks awesome, too. ^_^

~WP

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Just my opinion, feel free to disregard...

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Energy Melee.

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Why do people state energy melee is the weakest, yea its not near as powerful as it used to be. But it still packs one hell of a punch

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The Porcelain God - DarkKinetics Corruptor
Meat Juice - DarkDarkSoul Brute
Pretty and Strong - Do you really have to ask?

Well it seems the difference maker is the fact mine is EM/SR and softcapped. I have two willpower brutes and can see the lack of mitigation if paired with EM. Also it doesn't bother me when someone kills my targets. Used to annoy me a lot when I played my fire/rad a few years back. Used to it now.

Seems it more that the set changed and it lost synergy with most armor sets. Which isn't really good.

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(double posted) *facepalm*

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Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~

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The issue with selecting "the most underpowered" is that different people play differently, and so you can only select what'll be underpowered most of the time for you.

Personally, I'd lean towards BA - but I also haven't tried it. I rank it low based on theoretical numbers, the fact that I dislike weapon sets in general due to the animations while moving (and weapon redraw is a factor for peak Brute performance since Gloom is such good DPA), and it's lethal damage - which unless you like fighting Carnies, is going to be a noticeable difference compared to other sets later on in the game. I put Energy Melee somewhere in the middle of the pack, mostly for the damage type, and Electric Melee right there wherever it's at as the flip side of the same issue.


So since it seems to be a popular pick in the thread so far, here's my take on EM and why it's listed as a bottom-feeder by many: keeping in mind that my EM/Elec Brute was my first Brute to hit 50 - prior to the change to Energy Transfer (or putting any IOs on her, for that matter - she hit 50 about 3 weeks into i9). Even back then, I understood that EM didn't provide mitigation beyond "that mob there is going to die really fast" but it worked fairly well and I could get by with it for most anything in the game. When Energy Transfer was changed (along with reducing the mag stun on TF, but mostly it was animation time related) there were several things that changed:

1. The feel of the set was drastically altered. Previously I could use TF if I wanted, but most of the time I didn't bother. It was simply too slow, and it broke the feel of the set.
2. That attack that does a ton of damage no longer does it in an instant, which means that mobs have more time to attack you. This means you're taking more damage, on top of the self-damage of the power itself.
3. The self damage in ET happens if you hit - even if the mob is already dead by the time the damage would happen. This isn't a change, but since the damage now happens roughly 2 seconds later than it used to (the damage happened in the old animation before you pulled your arm back, which was part of the animation time of 1 sec!) there's a much greater chance that your target is going to die before it goes off.

That alone wouldn't cripple the set; it makes it weaker by a great deal, and hurts the mitigation, but the real kicker is that it got absolutely nothing in return. The low AoE damage wasn't helped, it still doesn't have any reliable AoE mitigation (Whirling Hands' 30% chance for a short duration, minion-level stun doesn't count), and it was only a "top tier" set in single-target damage (and stacking stuns on a single target), and primarily burst at that (Stone Melee, with the old mallet animation times, could reach similar sustained ST numbers if you could get the recharge low enough and maintain the endurance cost... only ET had better DPA for Brutes). But single target damage, and specifically burst, was a part of the game which mattered pretty much only while soloing and in PvP. The rapid-fire single target pace made up some ground on the low AoE, so it wasn't a total waste in that department. For a long time, I didn't log the character on at all, and even did a series of respecs to pull off the IOs which I had put on her (after a while as a 50).

Now, it's still okay at single-target damage and good for single-target burst - but you can't throw 2 ETs into one Build Up window for extreme burst anymore, and it's lacking AoE - both damage and mitigation - as well. But while solo, or on small teams, it's still a worthwhile set. Since Energize came along to help make up for the lost mitigation from killing so quickly, I've taken to playing my EM/Elec again (using Lightning Field, Ball Lightning, and yes, even Whirling Hands to get some AoE damage out of her). She's still not as fun as she was, but I got used to the difference in the feel after playing an EM Stalker for a bit and so I'm not comparing her performance now to her performance then every time I log her on.

If anyone cares, here are the primaries I've played and how far I took them as a Brute: EM: 50; ElM: 50; SM: 50; DB: 36; SS: 44; DM: 50; FM: 50.


Ranking those:

• Team environment: SS (damage/mitigation), SM (mitigation - Fault can replace most of a secondary all by itself), FM (good damage, ST and AoE, but you'll need help with mitigation elsewhere), ElM (good AoE but "meh" ST), DB (decent AoE, "meh" ST, and it's lethal damage), DM (Soul Drain is very nice for extra damage), EM (it's not lethal damage)
• Solo/small numbers of enemies: SM (Seismic Smash, Heavy Mallet, more mitigation than you need while solo), EM (still has good ST), DM (Soul Drain doesn't help quite so much with less mobs to feed it, but Siphon Life is a very nice addition), FM (good DPA, but lots of DoT so mobs still get a chance to hit back), SS (Rage crashes suck), ElM (uh... it's not lethal damage?), DB (similar damage capability to ElM, but a more resisted damage type).

Those rankings are purely subjective, though, and there are some sets that I just look at and go "bleh" before I ever even make the character (such as Battle Axe).

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"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX

I understand alot of people's complaints about Energy Melee changes that have happened in the past and yes it's not what it use to be but it isn't an underpowered set either imo.

Recently i took my lvl 50 em/sr brute to RWZ and decided to solo a pylon . The results were impressive atleast imo. It took me about 10mins to defeat it and switching between attacks was not as smooth as it use to be but that didn't hamper my dps in anyway. What did hamper it a little bit was only when Practiced Brawler had recharged or when the Pylon hit me and i was forced to use aidself . Also just to note i didn't use any insp,clicky accolades,temps,shivans.

Yes the big hitters take a bit of time to animate but it's worth it considering the amount of damage it does.


P.S. Oh and yes i'm one of those crazy people that uses whirling hands not just for dmg but also for midigation

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