Perma holding AVs. Is it possible for controllers?

Just like the title says..I'd like to know if perma holding AVs is possible or not.. I have an Earth/Rad that I would like to IO the hell out of, and I want to know if perma holding AVs is possible or not because that would affect a couple sets and slots in my build.

I know from reading and asking around that's REALLY hard to perma hold an AV, even when downgraded to an EB via the slider system..so, if it's possible, I'd like to know if there are any specific builds that can do it or details like that. Thanks!

Just for reference. I'm not looking for a solo career at all. I'm just asking this question in general. And specifically in my build, I happen to have four hold powers. Fossilize. Volcanic Gases (4 seconds off perma), Chocking Cloud, and Seismic Smash.

Thanks for the vid though, was interesting to watch

It is possible to perma hold an AV, but it takes a while to stack up >54 mag, and you need some pretty high recharge to do it.

I'd think Mind would be a better primary for that: Dominate + Total Dom + TK + Hold procs in each attack + Hold procs in the two holds + Rad hold + Stone hold... I think that'd work if the procs and Overpower went off often enough.

Assuming all the procs go off and you hit overpower on your holds, you're looking at about 30 mags worth of holding for about 8 seconds durring your first volley of attacks. Without the procs or overpower you're looking at about 18. You'd need lots of recharge, hold durration and end management, but I think it's doable to hold an AV on paper.

I've seen demos of extreme recharge Dominators managing to maintain a MAG 54+ hold, but they have the advantage of the Domination buff. I'm not sure it's possible for a controller to maintain that level of hold.

Controller holds are MAG 3 with a chance for a MAG 4. Figured on MAG 3 you'd have to stack 18 holds before your first hold wore off. Is this even possible for any 'troller build?

Now if you're referring to a group of controllers then sure, you can hold an AV through the PToD. Solo? I doubt it.

Controllers can definitely, definitely perma-hold AVs.

I think I understand that you were really asking "can a solo controller hold an AV," but the question and the way it was answered in some cases was a touch ambiguous.

Any three decent controllers should be able to perma-hold an AV after a short ramp-up. Two controllers built for lots and lots of hold output might also manage it, therefore, I would guess. For the same reason, I suspect it's out of the question for even the most hold-spam-tastic solo controller.

Let's assume that it is possible for a moment; what build could potentially do it?

For Primaries, I would consider Gravity and Earth. Mind was appealing, but it would require a lot of endurance reduction to maintain the extra 2 points of magnitude from Telekinesis and just isn't worth it in my opinion. Also, TK can't accept the +2 magnitude proc. Gravity's obvious appeal is from Singularity tossing out its hold every 8 seconds or so, adding an additional 3 mag for 18 seconds. Earth throws in Volcanic Gases though. On a high recharge build I could see it having a down time of around 10 seconds or so. (At 180% recharge, it recharges in 68 seconds and lasts for 60.) It would also fire off the +2 Mag proc very often.

For secondaries, I was liking /rad until Gypsy pointed out /cold. With a substantial amount of recharge you could have benumb up almost constantly contributing -mez resistance. Would that contribute more than the additionally magnitude added by Choking Cloud and EMP Pulse?

As for APP's Stone seems a good choice, adding an extra 4 mag with Seismic Smash. If I went with Grav as a primary it would be the definite choice. However, Earth might get as much benefit from Powerboost + Volcanic Gasses as it would an additional hold. I also would ponder the effectiveness of Powerboost + Benumb. Would this have a multiplicative effect?

I did a bit of number crunching, and I think that grav, earth, fire, and mind might all be able to do it with the earth epic. If powerboost affects benumb, then I think *any* primary with the cold secondary and primal epic could do it. Of course, that's all assuming roughly perma-hasten levels of recharge.

That's all theoretical, of course - I haven't done it myself, no way would I ever pour that much cash into one character. Regardless, though, it would probably take a minute or more to stack enough mag - so better have a good backup plan.

My Plants/TA can hold AVs for significant periods of time, almost always long enough for them to be take down, but I wouldn't say that it's "perma". It works by combining Hasten, some IO bonuses (recharge, accuracy, and hold duration), and the fours holds I have in my build (Strangler, Ice Arrow, Vines, and EMP Arrow) to keep it held down.

I also put priority on getting the Vanguard Medal Accolade (http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Vanguard_Badge) as soon as I could. That makes it much easier to apply holds at the start of the fight to get it initially contained.

As an Earth/Rad, you'll probably be able to hold an AV with proper IO slotting, Hasten, and the Vanguard Medal, especially since you have both Quicksand and Radiation Infection to lower its defense. Keeping it held permanently, though, will require a lot of IO slotting. I'd just make friends with another Controller or an Ice Blaster with Freeze Ray. Then you don't have to obsess on your holds quite to much and can focus on slamming an AV with those lovely Radiation debuffs.

Ok, to hold an AV through the PToD you need to stack up >54 mags or mez (4 for the base protection, and 50 for the triangles).

With ST holds slotted with 95% hold and recharge Mind can manage about 22 mags indefinately. Fire can get up to 25. Earth can only manage 21, but Volcanic Gasses can stack up to 22 mags on a single target. Ice Arrow and Seismic Smash (the only other stackable holds available to Controllers) can maintain 6 and 3 mags respectively.

Hasten and Power Boost obviously both help enourmously (PB helps more than Hasten, but only lasts 15s)

So, and Earth/TA/Stone troller can easily maintain >54 mag on a single target, so long as Volcanic Gasses is up.

When considering other secondaries and primaries, remember a few things. EM Pulse and EMP Arrow have loooong recharges and cannot be made perma (same with the AoE holds). TK and Choking Cloud don't stack with themselves. and Singularity and Jack are terribad at stacking mez reliably. Jack because of poor attack cycling once the sword is out and Singy because of the unusually long cycle time on his Gravity Distortion power.

I remember a thread about doms holding AV's way back in the day and the conversation broke down to mathematics.

I think it came down to activation times with stackin mag abilities.

From what I remember, mind and fire (with their fast activating holds) could do it.
With the relatively new hold procs I dont know how that changes the equation.

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