Everybodies Kung Fu Fighting!
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-11-12 11:07 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Possibly depends which way you are facin... |
Originally Posted by Daimyo_Shi
I thinking the Clap in the middle of it will not make any sense.
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Originally Posted by Daimyo_Shi
Batman is Natural/Tech/Scince as i have stated before.
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Originally Posted by craggy
niche? maybe, but consider how easy it is for someone in a fictional universe to learn to become a ninja. Kitty flippin giant bullet bob Pryde is a ninja fer chrissakes! Many of your toons could probably find a weekend to travel to Japan and undergo a few training montages...even if they do so whilt you're logged out.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Ah, but it's because of his Natural Kryptonian physiology that his cells react to yellow sunlight as such. If you've followed the numerous stories of Superman throughout the ages you'd know that once he comes in contact with red sunlight, he immediately begins to lose his powers.
I always figured that the science origin permanently imbued you with powers, such in the case of Spider-Man or the Fantastic 4. Spidey doesn't need continued bites from radioactive spiders and the FF doesn't need continued exposure from cosmic rays to maintain their powers. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Science is, very much implicitly, someone who is altered by a scientific experiment, be it intentional or unintentional. In SuperMan's case, this isn't the case. He has a natural reaction to our sun which doesn't give him powers, it merely unlocks his powers. An apt comparison would be if a human underwent meditation to unlock the "true potential" of a human and became able to fly. This wouldn't be magic just because meditation has a vague magical connotation to it, it would still be natural.
SuperMan's powers aren't given to him by anything. He is just unable to access them under certain conditions. |
There are even some heavily ambiguous origins. How much technology does it take to cross the threshhold from natural to tech? A full-on mech suit would be a tech origin, but wielding a pistol isn't, is it? So where's the line? And if you're a magical creature like a genie that naturally has magic powers, is your origin natural or magic?
I won't go too much into the Superman origin debate because I don't want to derail this thread. But I will say that even with what you guys said, I still disagree. I can see it from your point of view and understand the reasons you give for it being natural over science, but I still believe that it would be a science origin. At least, by the way that I define it.
The good thing about the origins though is that they ARE open to interpretation, and there's really not a right answer to any of those. Superman's origin doesn't necessarily fit into CoH's system, and if it does, could be one of a few different things depending on who you ask.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I've made demons that had magic powers because there were doing magic and demons that were natural because the powers were inherent to their demon race.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
There are even some heavily ambiguous origins. How much technology does it take to cross the threshhold from natural to tech? A full-on mech suit would be a tech origin, but wielding a pistol isn't, is it? So where's the line? And if you're a magical creature like a genie that naturally has magic powers, is your origin natural or magic?
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Also, Superman is natural, like Aquaman.
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
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No kidding. They work their tails off and do us good, despite our whining. Seriously, good work guys. |
Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
I think our Devs here do us proud.
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Rob Liefield works for Paragon Studios now? 
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You want to know the secret of the world? It's this: Save it, and it'll repay you, every second of every day.
@Dr. Reverend - My DeviantArt Gallery
Crow Call - Gods of the Golden Age
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One of the few contexts where this can be said.
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Originally Posted by Deadedge
I've made demons that had magic powers because there were doing magic and demons that were natural because the powers were inherent to their demon race.
Also, Superman is natural, like Aquaman. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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They're also working on the positioning of dual pistols, shield with no weapon, and some other animations. It's pretty nice to hear that, considering they don't really HAVE to do anything for pistols, and shield is okay how it is. It's nice to hear though that they're putting forth extra effort to make it as good as it can be. |
Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend
Heh, no kidding. At least BaB's said in the other thread on this he and (Sexy)Jay are looking into this deformation and stuff, which is another thing I like about this team.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Well, the shield hand is curved a little funny (as if it's holding a blade pointed straight down). If they angle the hand so it's resting in a more natural position, it'd be perfect. I like running around with my shield arm pointed back. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
They're also working on the positioning of dual pistols, shield with no weapon, and some other animations. It's pretty nice to hear that, considering they don't really HAVE to do anything for pistols, and shield is okay how it is. It's nice to hear though that they're putting forth extra effort to make it as good as it can be.
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Though the whole thing looks pretty awesome when I pull out the Nemesis Staff, too... it almost looks like I'm holding a spear.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Well, based on the ninja run, I picked up the booster last night. The run itself is pretty awesome and I can see some of my characters making that their default travel power. For instance, I have a character whose origin involved some super serum type thing to give him above human strength but not really of the "Jump a quarter mile" level.
The parts are... okay, I guess. Some of them look like they could be useful, others will just be more stuff to cycle past. I never got the science booster but I'd rank the Natural costume options behind the Magic & Tech options for general usability. With that said, the plain "Warrior" half helmet is great and look like it can be combined with a lot of options. I never really liked the dome & bullet half helmets that came standard.
I never use emotes or flashy costume changes so no opinions there.
I'd give it 10/10 for the ability and 6/10 for the costumes (mainly for the warrior helmet and plain pads). That's just my opinion -- obviously if you like martial arts themed character sor something, you'll like it more.
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I made my broadsword scrapper technology origin. A broadsword is technology, isn't it? |
Originally Posted by Dispari
There are even some heavily ambiguous origins. How much technology does it take to cross the threshhold from natural to tech? A full-on mech suit would be a tech origin, but wielding a pistol isn't, is it?
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And, at any rate, the character isn't quite sure how the broadsword works.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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My BS/shield scrapper is tech too, but the sword and shield are made of nanites...
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
I made my broadsword scrapper technology origin. A broadsword is technology, isn't it?
And, at any rate, the character isn't quite sure how the broadsword works. |
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
Whoah nelly... I might have to revise my costume score to 4/10 until they fix some of those atrocious clipping issues. I made a female character using the Warrior robe option and you'd think she was being attacked by moths the way her skin would randomly poke through her costume as she moved around. It wasn't a stacked costume piece problem, just the costumes themselves don't seem fitted right on the models.
When it comes to the distinction between tech and natural, I usually consider if the character can perform the same actions without the specific weapon. For example, if I have a broadsword character, and I take away the sword... can the character do all the same things with a stick (not as effectively, of course), or is it something about that specific sword that grants the powers? (In this case it could be either magic or tech, depending on how I want to explain it).
Same sort of thing with guns. If my character can just pick up any random gun and still shoot as efficiently, then it's a natural ability. If a specific weapon is needed or it won't work, then it's technology.
So, my definition that if it's a character's natural ability, then it's a Natural origin. If it's an ability related to the weapon (or armor, or something else) that the character can't replicate on his own, then it's technology (or magic, or some other origin).
Batman, for example, is Natural. Sure, he has lots of neat toys... but take them all away, and he can still beat you into next week. If he were a Tech hero, then he'd be completely helpless without them.
That's how I see it, anyway.
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BABs stated in the official feedback thread for the booster that Sexy Jay and his sidekick are already working on these issues, just as he and his team are working on some of the animation issues for Ninja Run (when paired with claws & dual pistols, in particular).
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
Whoah nelly... I might have to revise my costume score to 4/10 until they fix some of those atrocious clipping issues. I made a female character using the Warrior robe option and you'd think she was being attacked by moths the way her skin would randomly poke through her costume as she moved around. It wasn't a stacked costume piece problem, just the costumes themselves don't seem fitted right on the models.
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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Awesome. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
BABs stated in the official feedback thread for the booster that Sexy Jay and his sidekick are already working on these issues, just as he and his team are working on some of the animation issues for Ninja Run (when paired with claws & dual pistols, in particular).
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You can use that particular helmet to make something that resembles Master Chief from Halo. |
Originally Posted by Jophiel
With that said, the plain "Warrior" half helmet is great and look like it can be combined with a lot of options. I never really liked the dome & bullet half helmets that came standard.
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I didn't try it myself, but my friend was showing me the pack earlier.
I'm serious, I got friends.
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The boundaries between origins are not at all well defined, yes. I suspect this is intentional. How much technology is Technology and not Natural? When does self-augmentation stop being Science and become Technology? Is technomagic Magic or Technology? They're ill-defined, and for the better. I'm glad they dropped the concept of meaningful origins in pre-beta.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
There are even some heavily ambiguous origins. How much technology does it take to cross the threshhold from natural to tech? A full-on mech suit would be a tech origin, but wielding a pistol isn't, is it? So where's the line? And if you're a magical creature like a genie that naturally has magic powers, is your origin natural or magic?
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That said, origins still have SOME definition given to them in their description texts, and outright contradicting them is not something I can accept. The easiest example is people insisting that being bitten by a radioactive woman, thus mutating you into Woman-Man would make you Mutation. That is false on its face. It would make you a "mutant" in the dictionary definition of the word, but it would make you a picture-perfect example of the Science origin as it is defined in-game. Mutation is very clearly described to be powers FROM BIRTH, which getting your powers of a mutated anything simply is not.
Origins overlap a lot in the game, but there are certain areas where they do NOT overlap in the slightest.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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While I wouldn't call it Science, there's always Batman: the Crimson Mist:|
Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
Natural/Tech yeah, but I'm not seeing the Science - is there some main continuity Batman story I'm not aware of where he's been granted special powers by a scientific process? (I hope not...)
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Smoke Pellets, freezing Pellets and number of other chemical substances. Batman has a very established background in the sciences. He save himself and other on many occations with such knowledge. Further many of his detective Skills are Forensics.
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Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
Natural/Tech yeah, but I'm not seeing the Science - is there some main continuity Batman story I'm not aware of where he's been granted special powers by a scientific process? (I hope not...)
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Doom/Batman in 2012
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
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I would agre with this, it not natual powers in my mind because he wouldn't have them at his home planet.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I would actually consider Superman's powers Science. If he was on his home planet with everything normal and "natural," he'd have no powers. It's our sun that gives him his abilities. It'd be like if humans went to some distant planet and the gasses in the air gave them super strength. I wouldn't consider that Natural. He doesn't just have his powers, and he didn't train for them. Some outside source reacts with him and gives him those powers.
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Originally Posted by Midnight_Guard
Why not? Doing the job and showing off your biceps' power at the same time - makes awesome sense.
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Doom/Batman in 2012
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
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Nah, you "hop" up a little higher so you can clap. It's just really eccentric is all. |
Originally Posted by Daimyo_Shi
If I understood what is implied in that statement by Golden Girl, You be clapping on you partners head, and given the animation, you be killing him/her
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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To be honest, Ninja Run is the power my "True Natural" DB/Nin Stalker has been waiting for forever. Finally a travel power that fits her theme!
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But it's 'natural' because it's not special that he has his powers. You take any Kryptonian to Earth and they'd have powers. It's a 'natural' aspect of the race. (as I understand it anyway)
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Originally Posted by Daimyo_Shi
I would agre with this, it not natual powers in my mind because he wouldn't have them at his home planet.
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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Or even any planet with a yellow sun.
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Originally Posted by Oliin
You take any Kryptonian to Earth
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
This pack is sweet!
The jump aspect of Ninja Run stacks with Inertial Reduction on my kin/rad. Since I have swift on that toon and am pretty much at or near the speed cap when using Siphon Speed, I can't tell if it's stacking with that, but I would think so.
50 Fire/Dev | 50 AR/Dev | 50 Ninjas/FF MM | 50 Bots/Dark | 50 Kin/Rad |
44 EM/Regen | 39 BS/Regen | 38 Kin/Elec | 27 Thugs/Pain
"Rare is the man so noble that he will always give thanks for that which is freely given." -Jock_Tamson
SuperMan's powers aren't given to him by anything. He is just unable to access them under certain conditions.