Suggestion for Devices: Satchel Charge
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-11-05 24:08 in Suggestions and Ideas
I think it's a very good idea and would do a lot to improve the complaints about the Devices tier 9.
I would want the same treatment given to Corruptors /Traps and also to Defender Traps/.
Yes, especially since on Traps Time Bomb is Tier 9 for Corrs and Defs, whereas Blasters get off easy by having it as a Tier 8, making it more skippable. In either case, I'd rather not have a power that was easy to skip 
Seems like it would be a good opening attack. /signed
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
Would love this. Actually makes the bloody power useful >.>
/signed
OMG I LOVE TIME BOMB! U CANT TAKE IT AWAY!!!!!!!!!
... Sorry, someone had to do it. 
I would say.. WTH isn't time Bomb already like this? I couldn't imagine having to sneak in to drop Omega Manuever...
I fully support this proposal and wish for it to be implemented. Currently, I have little to look forward to in my Fire/Devices Blaster as he reaches the upper thirties, and that's a shame. The top tier powers in a set should be worth looking forward to.
I agree, Time Bomb is SO situational most cannot really leverage it to be useful. I especially like it's comparison to Omega Maneuver (what I think the power should always have been), in that the taunt aspect of that power really does fit into a support category. Please oh please, make this so!
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Time bomb is at the low end of nuke damage. A nuke-like power with no end drain is balanced by its long setup time and interruption time. I believe time bomb is not intended to nuke a mob group so easily whenever it is recharged.|
Originally Posted by Obsidius
In my opinion, it would be better to replace this power with a similar power I call the Satchel Charge. It is identical in every way to Time Bomb, but instead of being a placed PBAOE pet, it is a targeted PBAOE pet, similar to Rain of Arrows or Omega Maneuver.
The power would work like this: the character targets the drop point and uses the power, using a range limit similar to Omega Maneuver. The character then pulls out a satchel (animators could use the duffel bag for Mercenary MM upgrades) and tosses it to the targeted spot. 15 seconds later, the satchel detonates in the same fashion as the current Time Bomb would. It would Satchel Charge be more differentiated from Trip Mine (a power that does similar damage but is easier to use for most players) |
I would love the suggested power, but the damage probably needs to be tuned down.
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Masterminds don't get Time Bomb at all, at least not as such. They get Detonator. Detonator on unthinking henchmen (Robots and Zombies) is a sort of self-destruct nuke, but on thinking henchmen (Ninja, Thugs and Mercs) it actually causes the henchman to summon an honest-to-God Time Bomb. The real kicker is that it's an explosion on demand at a location of your choosing, not at your feet 15 (23, actually) seconds later. And for not much less damage, either. True, it costs a henchman, but still.|
Originally Posted by Obsidius
Yes, especially since on Traps Time Bomb is Tier 9 for Corrs and Defs, whereas Blasters and MMs get off easy by having it as a Tier 8, making it more skippable. In either case, I'd rather not have a power that was easy to skip
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I would personally love to see Time Bomb shored up a bit, because it really IS very situational, but I worry about the mechanical difficulty of such a change.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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/signed
ANYTHING to make it more usable. I can honestly say that every build I have ever thought of has avoided Time Bomb like the plague.
I don't even have detonator on my MMs, simply because it costs a minion to use as an opening move, and its a bit more situational.
That said, given how damn suicidal one of my drones and the other Protector bot have become at the moment...I might as well have it...
Damn A.I...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Alternate animation:|
Originally Posted by Obsidius
The power would work like this: the character targets the drop point and uses the power, using a range limit similar to Omega Maneuver. The character then pulls out a satchel (animators could use the duffel bag for Mercenary MM upgrades) and tosses it to the targeted spot. 15 seconds later, the satchel detonates in the same fashion as the current Time Bomb would.
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If a more high-tech animation is wanted, here is my suggestion. Have the character whip out the Aid Other gadjet with one hand, and with the other, toss a disc-shaped object that skitters towards the foe.
Example:http://www.gadgetmadness.com/archive...cuum-robot.jpg
Satchel Charge is a tier 8/9 i would actually take, but then my Traps Defender and Devices Blaster will have one less free power choice. i suppose i could give up having a totally free choice for a really good primary/secondary power though.
/signed
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Time Bomb has one of two uses:|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
/signed
ANYTHING to make it more usable. I can honestly say that every build I have ever thought of has avoided Time Bomb like the plague. |
1. Caltrops at a corner, Time Bomb in the middle, then a wide-area pull and hide. It's difficulty and cumbersome to pull off, the but payback is significant.
2. Cloaking Device + Smokre Grenade, then set up a Time Bomb in the middle of a spawn, wait for it to start blinking fast and let rip with an AoE or two. That's 25-30 seconds worth of combat, but that's typically IT. This one's braindead easy to pull off and is my prefer method of using the power.
I look at it this way - if I use a regular nuke, I kill a spawn, but then I need to rest. If I use Time Bomb + Full Auto, I'm ready to keep going, but I've already "rested" setting the thing up.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yes, you're right, and I feel silly for making this error, as I took Detonate with my MM |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Masterminds don't get Time Bomb at all, at least not as such. They get Detonator. Detonator on unthinking henchmen (Robots and Zombies) is a sort of self-destruct nuke, but on thinking henchmen (Ninja, Thugs and Mercs) it actually causes the henchman to summon an honest-to-God Time Bomb. The real kicker is that it's an explosion on demand at a location of your choosing, not at your feet 15 (23, actually) seconds later. And for not much less damage, either. True, it costs a henchman, but still.
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I'd go for that. i don't think that the cottage rule would apply to this change since the cottage rule is more about not changing the fundamental nature of a power. Time Bomb and Satchel Charge both have the same fundamental nature: a big boom. I think the current damage would actually be ok. It's roughly equivalent to Inferno if the first proc hits but not the second. So effectively Time bomb has slightly more reliable damage but does less overall. I think reducing the damage would be a bad idea since the current damage isn't that much higher than Trip Mine and I think it needs to have higher damage than that to make it a useful option.
Great idea.
But wouldn't it kind of be like a grenade? You throw a bomb and it goes off after a couple of seconds correct? Although your idea sounds good, maybe use a animation where your toon pulls out a grenade, pulls the pin and lobs it at the targeted destination. Then after a few seconds, BOOM! They can call it something like... grenade.
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Technically it could be done as a grenade and given that we're using it against people rather than fixed fortifications it would be more realistic. However I personally prefer it as a satchel charge for a couple of reasons. Most importantly satchel charge implies a bigger BOOM than a grenade does. Secondly there are already a number of grenade based powers in the game and as a T8/9 power I'd like to see it have a more unique animation.
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Originally Posted by SmegHead
Great idea.
But wouldn't it kind of be like a grenade? You throw a bomb and it goes off after a couple of seconds correct? Although your idea sounds good, maybe use a animation where your toon pulls out a grenade, pulls the pin and lobs it at the targeted destination. Then after a few seconds, BOOM! They can call it something like... grenade. |
Well, time bomb takes a few seconds to actually lay down right? I figured that could be replaced with a animation where you pull out a grenade, actually pull the pin and lob it like they are taught to in the military. That would require a new animation since all of the nades I can think of in game are just kind of thrown. If there is a pin pulled I've never noticed it. And if they do actually pull a pin make it more obvious then it is currently.
Anyway, just a thought. Either way I think its a great idea.
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Actually, that was my thought. I suggest a satchel due to the size of the explosion. Although typically used for stationary targets, the above suggestion implies you could place the satchel either at close range or longe range, depending on the selected area.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Technically it could be done as a grenade and given that we're using it against people rather than fixed fortifications it would be more realistic. However I personally prefer it as a satchel charge for a couple of reasons. Most importantly satchel charge implies a bigger BOOM than a grenade does. Secondly there are already a number of grenade based powers in the game and as a T8/9 power I'd like to see it have a more unique animation.
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As for the animation of the current time bomb prep, something similar could be done with the satchel charge when initiated, such as taking a knee and setting the satchel before deploying it. Really, I'm looking for as much parity as possible to Time bomb in terms of activation animation and timers, but at the same time improving its usefulness.
To be honest I'd say reduce the timing. 15 seconds is a long time in CoH combat, increasing the range and eliminating the interrupt makes it more useful but even with that the 15second delay puts a damper on it's use.
What I'd really like to see is a short delay (<5seconds) but when it goes off the caster suffers a high magnitude knockback and possibly some damage although I can see that not being popular. I'd even go as far as to rename it a petard, but I'm weird like that .
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More than a few.|
Originally Posted by SmegHead
Well, time bomb takes a few seconds to actually lay down right?
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8 seconds.
Now, I've never been in the military (unless you count JROTC), and I've never used a grenade, but I sure as hell don't think I'd want to hold on to the thing for 8seconds.
I have always liked the idea of having time Bomb be a placeable pet, like it is now. However instead of going off in 15 seconds, it goes off in 30, with one addition. You can dismiss it anytime after you place it. Dismissing it, blows it up. I also would drastically reduce the place time.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Two more alternate animations, should this be a customizable power:|
Originally Posted by Obsidius
The power would work like this: the character targets the drop point and uses the power, using a range limit similar to Omega Maneuver. The character then pulls out a satchel (animators could use the duffel bag for Mercenary MM upgrades) and tosses it to the targeted spot.
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*) Character tosses a round, black, bowling-ball-like object (preferably with hissing fuse). Would fit with a cartoony feel, or (WWI-era?) "anarchist" types.
*) Character throws what looks like several sticks of dynamite tied together.
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/Signed!
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Two more alternate animations, should this be a customizable power:
*) Character tosses a round, black, bowling-ball-like object (preferably with hissing fuse). Would fit with a cartoony feel, or (WWI-era?) "anarchist" types. *) Character throws what looks like several sticks of dynamite tied together. |
I was reading another thread recently and was reminded of the Cottage Rule, but before you pass judgment on my cottage, hear me out
Time Bomb is one of the most discussed powers for Blasters, due to its unwieldiness. A character places it like a Trip Mine, but it goes off after 15 seconds regardless of enemy proximity. This makes it difficult to use. A character either has to place it at a point and lure enemies to it before it detonates, or has to use a stealth power in order to place it in a group and fall back to range before it detonates.
In my opinion, it would be better to replace this power with a similar power I call the Satchel Charge. It is identical in every way to Time Bomb, but instead of being a placed PBAOE pet, it is a targeted PBAOE pet, similar to Rain of Arrows or Omega Maneuver.
The power would work like this: the character targets the drop point and uses the power, using a range limit similar to Omega Maneuver. The character then pulls out a satchel (animators could use the duffel bag for Mercenary MM upgrades) and tosses it to the targeted spot. 15 seconds later, the satchel detonates in the same fashion as the current Time Bomb would.
This revision has two benefits:
- It would Satchel Charge be more differentiated from Trip Mine (a power that does similar damage but is easier to use for most players)
- It also makes the power itself easier to use for players who don't want to use stealth. Although Devices includes a Cloaking Device, that power itself isn't enough to provide full stealth necessary to place a Time Bomb without being seen and attacked; Satchel Charge would avoid this problem altogether.
That's just my idea, but what do you think?