no.
Those who go into hide go into hide because they don't want to be seen.
What you're suggesting is to say that players should not be allowed to be hidden.
***
There's also the PvP angle here. I just have to ask a question: Just how much traffic do you think the PvP zones get to begin with?
The underlying idea that you display is that people actually are going into the PvP zones, but hidden, and you want to be able to know just how many people are in the zones.
Well, there's a two fold problem to this. First, the forums here give a grossly distorted view of the size of the PvP player base. While Cryptic / NCSoft / Paragon Studio's have been, are, and probably will continue to be, coy about the real numbers, we do know that they are low. As in way less than 5% player pop low. As in way less than 2% player pop low. Are you sure you actually want a command that will let players figure out just how low the PvP player pop really is?
The second problem is Planetside. Several years ago Planetside's /search system allowed players of one empire to see if anybody from an opposing empire was on a cont. The SOE developers figured out that this was just bad game design. Period. Full Stop. No Argument. This is not a debate point. This is established fact. It is bad game design. So I really don't care if you don't like that the /search system doesn't work as you think it should, that it doesn't display enemy information and troop strength.
Part of the challenge of a PvP zone in a game that has a PvP population is that you don't know who you are up against. You don't know who you are going to face. You don't know what assets the enemy has. You don't know what kind of force can be brought against you. Which means you have to stay on your toes and be ready for anything. Which means you have to stand ready to... I dunno... PLAY THE GAME.
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the command works the way it should and should not be changed because you don't like that you can't see people who are hidden.
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Originally Posted by Airman_America
Due to hidden people, the command gives a false impression of how many are in a zone. I suggest the following improvements:
1.Change the command to whoall-d for detailed, just like now, it lists names and types of who are in a zone not hidden. OR they could just leave the command as it is now. 2. Add a whoall-g for general, it would list all, even hidden, in total numbers, for example: Controllers: 3, Scrappers: 4, Tanks: 1, and so on. This would allow those that wish to be hidden by name to stay that way, but, it would provide more accurate information in PvP zones. Currently, and many know, the information is faulty at best, listing those who are unhidden, but allowing those hidden to stay that way. 3. Simply do away with the command as it can be inaccurate. I am not here to discuss the merits of hidden or unhidden either way, just that the command is not quite worthwhile in its present form. |
This is a bad idea. Even if something like this is added to the game, the most information it should ever list is the unhidden player names and the number of people hidden.
�Let there be truth, happiness, and waffles�
-Vagabond, Dark Lord & Avatar of Gnarr
The Justiciars
The most I could see is on the /whoall would be listing everyone unhidden as normal followed by X hidden players in the zone.
It would prevent you from flying around an empty PvP zone looking for someone to kill, and also give you an idea of how many people are REALLY in the zone. But it would not take away ANY of the anonymity of those on /ghide.
Actually I expected some resistance from the hide types, makes no difference, I am talking about a command that is inaccurate, so why have it? Just do away with it or enhance it to a generic command that lists players by AT or even just total number of friend/foe in a zone - including those on a mission. As it stands, can you tell me a good reason to keep it or even use it? It is like listing files on your C drive and excluding those that are hidden, that might be fine for noob computer users, but, for a guy like me, I can choose to list them and I can choose the level of detail too. To further the point, how many CoH players actually know the command exists - the savvy ones do, many I venture, do not or do not remember to actually use it.
I am Airman America... Super Hero... and I approve this message!
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If what you want is to be able to tell how many are in a PvP zone, then I think that there is a better way to do it.|
Originally Posted by Airman_America
Due to hidden people, the command gives a false impression of how many are in a zone. I suggest the following improvements:
1.Change the command to whoall-d for detailed, just like now, it lists names and types of who are in a zone not hidden. OR they could just leave the command as it is now. 2. Add a whoall-g for general, it would list all, even hidden, in total numbers, for example: Controllers: 3, Scrappers: 4, Tanks: 1, and so on. This would allow those that wish to be hidden by name to stay that way, but, it would provide more accurate information in PvP zones. Currently, and many know, the information is faulty at best, listing those who are unhidden, but allowing those hidden to stay that way. 3. Simply do away with the command as it can be inaccurate. I am not here to discuss the merits of hidden or unhidden either way, just that the command is not quite worthwhile in its present form. |
Have a /Zone_Pop command that does count people in the zone that are use /hide. "There are currently 8 player characters in this zone." And I wouldn't break it down by faction and certainly wouldn't break it down by AT or name.
I don't think that going into /hide should be used to benefit in PvP, nor do I think that there should be any easy way to defeat the purpose of hiding from /search in a PvE area either.
Edit: Nevermind. Just use TSZ's idea of "..and 5 that are hidden."
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Did you actually READ what I suggested? I said what you just said. In fact, I think many of you just read a line, freak, then slam a comment. If you read it, I say to|
Originally Posted by DocArcus
This is a bad idea. Even if something like this is added to the game, the most information it should ever list is the unhidden player names and the number of people hidden.
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1. Keep the command much as is.
2. Add a detail command that just lists numbers or AT with NO names.
3. OR get rid of a command that does not do what it says it will.
Sheesh... what a schools for???
I am Airman America... Super Hero... and I approve this message!
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Originally Posted by Airman_America
2. Add a whoall-g for general, it would list all, even hidden, in total numbers, for example: Controllers: 3, Scrappers: 4, Tanks: 1, and so on. This would allow those that wish to be hidden by name to stay that way, but, it would provide more accurate information in PvP zones. Currently, and many know, the information is faulty at best, listing those who are unhidden, but allowing those hidden to stay that way.
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Originally Posted by DocArcus
This is a bad idea. Even if something like this is added to the game, the most information it should ever list is the unhidden player names and the number of people hidden.
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Originally Posted by Airman_America
Did you actually READ what I suggested? I said what you just said. In fact, I think many of you just read a line, freak, then slam a comment. If you read it, I say to
1. Keep the command much as is. 2. Add a detail command that just lists numbers or AT with NO names. 3. OR get rid of a command that does not do what it says it will. Sheesh... what a schools for??? |
I don't see any good reason to show who is in missions or hidden in a pve zone. That would let people bother players that just want to solo.
Now drop the attitude and realize that I am not the only one that thinks this shouldn't be done.
�Let there be truth, happiness, and waffles�
-Vagabond, Dark Lord & Avatar of Gnarr
The Justiciars
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Command does exactly what it says it does since its description states that it won't show players on hide. Ergo, it is WAI and therefore needs no change.|
Originally Posted by Airman_America
Did you actually READ what I suggested? I said what you just said. In fact, I think many of you just read a line, freak, then slam a comment. If you read it, I say to
1. Keep the command much as is. 2. Add a detail command that just lists numbers or AT with NO names. 3. OR get rid of a command that does not do what it says it will. Sheesh... what a schools for??? |
As for the last line in your post, apparently, not even to teach how to write.
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It stays for the same reason any of the /commands that have UI analogs stay. The people who want them use them, and those that don't, don't have to. It doesn't have to be better, it doesn't even have to be completely accurate. It just has to be there as to provide an option.|
Originally Posted by Airman_America
As it stands, can you tell me a good reason to keep it or even use it? It is like listing files on your C drive and excluding those that are hidden, that might be fine for noob computer users, but, for a guy like me, I can choose to list them and I can choose the level of detail too. To further the point, how many CoH players actually know the command exists - the savvy ones do, many I venture, do not or do not remember to actually use it.
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It's like your analog of computer files. As a super user, you get to list what you want and how. What makes you think you're a super user in terms of this game? You're not a GM or a redname. You have no real reason to need to know who is hidden, so the existing command is fine for someone like you (and me, and every other paying customer).
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
LOL... ROTFL even... why hide in a PvP zone? I never do, never have, never will and I simply do not see the tactics of using it - but that is my opinion... First of all the enemy has to actually find you and they have to want to engage you. Just because you are hidden does nothing to help you if I see you and I want to engage you. I really do not see the logic in hiding. If you do not want to fight, you withdrawl to the base, but hiding your name does not save you any more than less. What is actually more dangerous is the announcement of a "new bounty" in Sirens Call, now that might sink your ship.
Still, then they should remove the command, why waste the memory with a command that does not work fully? Regardless of what the rules say... well then the Devs have changed the rules before havent they? Recall all the arguments about sidekicking over the years? I think the present system was proposed many times in the past only to be flamed. Should those who did so apologize? No, they had an opinion that differed. Things can change and they will... check out the last guy who actually ran on change and got elected... like him or not.
My only thought is, why have it if it does not work fully, to say "as intended" is fine, if that is an updated statement, if that was something looked at 3 years ago, and since has collected dust due to other work being more important, then it is not an up to date statement. I am sure EDLINE is working as intended too, but, why use it when it is outdated? The whoall command came out before hide and before pvp as I remember, the game changed since, the command just might need updating. I recall using it in i2, I do not recall hide coming into being until i3 or i4 and pvp came into being in i4. Correct me if I am wrong on this point.
OH and I think I am a Super User... don't you? Well maybe not before you get Stamina anyway...
I am Airman America... Super Hero... and I approve this message!
It works exactly as it was designed to. It shows all the players in zone that are not hidden. How is that "a command that does not work fully?" It is not a broken feature. It is not outdated. Most team leaders I know use it as well the LFT search to find people for teams.
As for hiding in a pvp zone. If I'm there for the non-pvp things in a zone, I don't want people to know I'm there. Most of the time I can get in, get want I wanted, and get out without anyone knowing I was even there. It saves headaches when I'm not there for pvp. If people don't know I was there, they can't cry that I wont fight them.
�Let there be truth, happiness, and waffles�
-Vagabond, Dark Lord & Avatar of Gnarr
The Justiciars
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Because I, and a lot of other people, actually find it useful outside of PvP? And outside of PvP is where most people play?
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Originally Posted by Airman_America
Still, then they should remove the command, why waste the memory with a command that does not work fully? |
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
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I most of my time hidden from /search. Mostly in PvE, though.|
Originally Posted by Airman_America
LOL... ROTFL even... why hide in a PvP zone?
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When CoV was introduced, there was some forum-ranting about that Stalkers would use /hide to make people using /whoall think the zone was empty and get into a false sense of security. ASSASSIN STRIKE!!
As for the level of truth behind the rants? I dunno.
*shrug*
Just leave it alone, it works fine.
If the devs start tinkering with it, something somewhere else will go wrong... it never fails.
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I recently found out habitual PvPers will do zone sweeps with /who to find out what zone has people in it. As my SGs RP sometimes involves (RP)PvP and sometimes uses PvP zones for it for ease and other things arenas cannot provide (such as the free for all of Warburg), I whole heartedly disapprove of this idea.
We hide for a reason, and those reasons are no less valid just because we're in a PvP zone.
And yes, we have had events griefed by PvPers before.
I'd be OK with "...and 3 hidden" at the end of a whoall total, but nothing more than that.
I would prefer it not to be changed at all. It does what it says it does: shows people who are not on /hide. Therefore it is WAD, WAI, LMNOP, ROFLCOPTER.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I can agree here, I even hate the fact that your name and AT can be seen by an opposing player. IMO in a faction zone, your friends should be readily identifiable and thats it, in a free for all it should just be your character and eveything else is fog of war until your defeated.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
. Part of the challenge of a PvP zone in a game that has a PvP population is that you don't know who you are up against. You don't know who you are going to face. You don't know what assets the enemy has. You don't know what kind of force can be brought against you. Which means you have to stay on your toes and be ready for anything. Which means you have to stand ready to... I dunno... PLAY THE GAME.
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------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
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Exactly. That is your opinion. Moving on...|
Originally Posted by Airman_America
LOL... ROTFL even... why hide in a PvP zone? I never do, never have, never will and I simply do not see the tactics of using it - but that is my opinion.
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| I really do not see the logic in hiding. |
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| why waste the memory with a command that does not work fully? |
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I don't know. What is "a schools for"?
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Originally Posted by Airman_America
Sheesh... what a schools for???
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An A-School is where a Navy recruit goes for technical training in his specialty after completing boot camp.
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Originally Posted by Thirty_Seven
I don't know. What is "a schools for"?
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Because you may not want to give them the feeling they WANT to hunt someone? Or, optionally, you may not want those that know about the command to know you're out there hunting them? I've used it for both. |
Originally Posted by Airman_America
LOL... ROTFL even... why hide in a PvP zone? I never do, never have, never will and I simply do not see the tactics of using it - but that is my opinion... First of all the enemy has to actually find you and they have to want to engage you. Just because you are hidden does nothing to help you if I see you and I want to engage you.
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| I really do not see the logic in hiding. If you do not want to fight, you withdrawl to the base, but hiding your name does not save you any more than less. What is actually more dangerous is the announcement of a "new bounty" in Sirens Call, now that might sink your ship. |
You didn't think that one through.
I'll use "Hide" for the same reason I do NOT react to broadcasts of "Any (faction) in zone?" You want to know, I'm not giving you free info. Come in and find out. Frankly, I find PVP MORE enjoyable without that advance info. Even missions - you don't know *ahead* of time that the person who's just changed a buff is a friend or foe, just because you suddenly have -X% or +X% of a buff, unless you know what the values were beforehand - did they just help or hurt you?
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| Still, then they should remove the command, why waste the memory with a command that does not work fully? |
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| My only thought is, why have it if it does not work fully, |
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| The whoall command came out before hide and before pvp as I remember, |
Edit:
Also, how would it list those on a mission, as those people are in an instance - IOW, a different "zone?" /Whoall doesn't work that way.
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And yet, every time I go into a PvP zone, most of the players are hidden. I can read an extended broadcast conversation between players actually fighting and see FEW or NONE of them listed on /whoall.
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Originally Posted by Airman_America
LOL... ROTFL even... why hide in a PvP zone? I never do, never have, never will and I simply do not see the tactics of using it - but that is my opinion... First of all the enemy has to actually find you and they have to want to engage you. Just because you are hidden does nothing to help you if I see you and I want to engage you. I really do not see the logic in hiding.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Due to hidden people, the command gives a false impression of how many are in a zone. I suggest the following improvements:
1.Change the command to whoall-d for detailed, just like now, it lists names and types of who are in a zone not hidden. OR they could just leave the command as it is now.
2. Add a whoall-g for general, it would list all, even hidden, in total numbers, for example: Controllers: 3, Scrappers: 4, Tanks: 1, and so on. This would allow those that wish to be hidden by name to stay that way, but, it would provide more accurate information in PvP zones. Currently, and many know, the information is faulty at best, listing those who are unhidden, but allowing those hidden to stay that way.
3. Simply do away with the command as it can be inaccurate.
I am not here to discuss the merits of hidden or unhidden either way, just that the command is not quite worthwhile in its present form.
I am Airman America... Super Hero... and I approve this message!