Venture's Reviews V: Critic's Choice
I never had any problems finding that door on my first experience as a lowbie villain. It's true that players are conditioned not to bother trying doors, but I found the map layout and the direction you face as you start, pretty much leads you to the door to that big prominent building.
If you want confusing, Marshal Brass has you entering the TV broadcasting building (one of many in a large outdoor map) to access the roof for one of your objectives. |
From my perspective, that 'big prominent' building is hidden away in a corner. I'd say the other building to the right is more prominent - and it's even visible from the entrance point.
And in contrast, lol, I never had any difficulty with the TV building roof. It definitely sticks out from the other buildings in that map, and I didn't even know you could get up there via the door, as I've only used Flyers and SJers so far for that mission (Of course, now that I think about it it makes sense).
Just goes to show that what's obvious to some is not to others - all the more reason to inform in advance about such things, and to do so in ways which hopefully aren't jarringly hand-holding to those Players who already know there's a door there, or an objective here, or what have you.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
I think he was possibly using 'lampshade' in its nore general sense, not referring necessarily to cliche or the need for self-denigration. A bit too fond of tvtropes, imo.
I think he just means to suggest what i also noticed when i played it, that some players (like me lol) dont kbow tgat building can be entered and so there needs to be sth that informs the player that it needs to be explored too. You can be overt with this or 'lampshade' it subtly. 'leave no door unopened!' might be too subtle, i'd personally put it straight to the player, 'check the buildings at tge site too' eco |
"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
Characters
I think it's weird how many people don't know about that map. The only "real" mission where it's used doesn't make a huge deal of pointing out that you can go inside the warehouse and somehow people still have managed to figure it out.
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Obviously that sort of thing is beyond our abilities to create.
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
I think he was possibly using 'lampshade' in its more general sense, not referring necessarily to cliche or the need for self-denigration. A bit too fond of tvtropes, imo.
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Anyways - good point for us all to remember - if you use that map, be sure and drop a hint to the players to click doors!
Other maps with "indoors", several of which boggled me the first time.
The Zig - click the sewer pipes to continue. (see: Celebrity Kidnapping)
Just a couple weeks ago I played a map villainside that's a large city map and you have to enter one of the buildings.
There's a nighttime docks mission with a building in the center that you have to enter. (see: Fight The NITES)
The map talked about in this thread (which was one that actually never gave me problems).
The Zig - click the sewer pipes to continue. (see: Celebrity Kidnapping)
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Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Or are you saying that none of the multi-arcs are worthy of the award? |
Re. the second comment--what, exactly, is it you don't like that you're seeing? |
I'd have thought that, if you were going to make one of your trademarked Venture pot-stirring comments, you'd support it with some of your trademarked pot-stirring commentary. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
I don't consider "multi-arc" a valid format. One arc is supposed to be a complete story. Whether the developers drew the line at three or five or fifty acts, that's how much space you get. If you can't fit what you want into the provided space you have to start deciding what stays and what goes. To the extent that the architect failed to color within the lines, the arc fails. So as far as I'm concerned there are no "multi-arcs", only cases of multiple incomplete arcs that may reference each other. |
Just because an arc doesn't come packaged into one neat portion doesn't mean it's not a viable story. There are quite a few advantages to having arcs in multiple parts. For example, they allow players to catch a breath and decide if they want to continue. If a player does not like the first part, then they don't have to continue on to the next few parts, and if they do like it, then they don't have to play the entire thing in one sitting.
Of course the obvious reason why players make multi-part arcs is because they feel that their story is far too big to fit into one arc. When I was making The Lost Choir for instance, I started with the intention of making it one five mission arc. But the more I planned it out on paper, the more I saw I had to go to a second arc. And even then, two arcs were not enough, and I had to make another, third arc to wrap the whole thing up. I guess if I tried really hard I could have crammed it all into one, but then I would have lost the massive scope I was aiming for.
Besides, it has never been said that one arc is one story. The dev's have never said that multi-part arcs are forbidden. Hell, there are even a few official arcs that really only work as one big story (the Faultline arcs immediatley come to mind, and the other post I-3 hazard zone arcs are also like this to a lesser degree.)
But that's all just my opinion. I just like my stories to be BIG.
Arc #178278, "The Marconeville Horror"
tl;dr: 1 star. Offenses: throws the Idiot Ball, poor portrayal of canon faction, problematic mobs, plot issues, undeclared AVs and EBs, "just a bunch of stuff that happened"
Reviewed on: 11/6/2009
Level Range: 10-20/10-20/10-20/10-20/15-20
Factions: Family, Mooks, Legacy Chain, Custom
Architect's Keywords: Canon Related, Horror
My Keywords: Challenging
Character used: Master Kasai/Justice
Difficulty: +0x2+B-AV
Billy Heck (bio not copied over) needs some muscle to deal with a theft of Family goods. The goombas who were supposed to be watching the stuff say it was some "Whitfinger" guy, but Heck (demonstrating the insight one would expect of a rhesus monkey detective squad) decides it must have been the Mooks. You're sent to the instanced Mercy map from Creed's arc (again...this time one of the Bosses mentions the fact there's an "inside" at least) to deal with two Bosses and two "spooked Mook" captives inside the warehouse. The Bosses claim that they were robbed too, and the Spooked Mooks insist it was Whitfinger...who, you are finally told in the mission end clue, is dead.
Heck admits in the next briefing that he should have told you about Whitfinger, who was a violent mobster killed a while ago for torquing off Don Marcone. He's become something of a boogeyman figure in mob culture since, something mob moms threaten their little hoods with. Some say that he isn't really dead or his ghost is running around but Heck doesn't believe that. Given the world he lives in that makes him a pretty dim bulb. His next great idea is to have you pretend to be Whitfinger so Emil Marcone can personally expose you as a fraud, thus (he thinks) convincing everyone that there's nothing to the story. You catch the Idiot Ball and run with it to a warehouse map. Stealing some gold from a safe triggers the spawn of Emil, who is a an Assault Rifle/Force Field custom Boss for some reason. Defeating him triggers an objective to "Escape, defeating anyone in your path" which is code for "Defeat Whitfinger and his undead mobster goons". "Whitfinger's Wrath" spawns as a Dark Blast/Dark Miasma Boss (invisible thanks to Shadow Fall). Heck thinks everything went according to plan until he talks to you.
All of a sudden Heck remembers he can see a fortress full of pirate ghosts from his house and realizes there must be something to this Whitfinger thing after all. The problem is that now that Emil Marcone is telling everyone Whitfinger is a fraud who's been dealt with Heck can't let him in on the truth. So he wants you to deal with Whitfinger. He's sending you to meet Mr. Bocor with a written question, because Bocor has agreed to answer one and only one question. You head to one of Bocor's hideouts (Banished Pantheon cave map) only to find him being harassed by Legacy Chain troops (with very bad dialog). I'm going to assume Bocor decided to amuse himself by watching you fight them instead of vaporizing them himself.... Once freed, you have to escort him to the door, which triggers a very annoying ambush full of Mook Hitmen. When you reach the door the mission end Clue reveals the question: "how do we kill Whitfinger". Bocor tells you he can't just tell you the answer, you have to see it for yourself. He offers you a blue pill^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hspirit trance that will reveal the answer.
The trance takes you to a tech lab map to witness Whitfinger's death. The first death I witnessed was mine as I ran into (literally, thanks to the enclosed map) a young version of one of the Mook Bosses from act I as a hostage, guarded by a bunch of custom "Marcone Hatchet Men" LTs that cut me down instantly. These are Battle Axe/Pain Domination making them very nasty and completely over the top for an arc in this range. You have to defeat Whitfinger, optionally free Don Marcone and find what Whitfinger stole, the "Bitter Ossuary", a solid gold pitcher (hmmm) he pinched from the Legacy Chain. The mission end clue says that Don Marcone led the Chain's troops to Whitfinger because he'd stolen the Ossuary without permission. It also says Marcone was afraid of a confrontation with the Chain, which would make him the only character in the game that could be said of.... The pitcher actually comes out of the trance with you.
This gives Billy an idea: return the pitcher to the place of Whitfinger's death to lure him out so you can take him out. It doesn't seem like just beating up a ghost is going to lay it to rest, but whatever.... As it turns out, it doesn't matter because Whitfinger isn't a ghost. He's an Eidolon created by Dr. Vahzilok, who is present in the mission. I can see the architect wanted to pull a misdirect here but it just doesn't work. Too much of the plot depends on Whitfinger being a supernatural entity. I'm not sure if I had to defeat Vahzilok to spawn Whitfinger because it took me about an hour of trying to defeat Whitfinger and I just don't remember. Whitfinger was a Dark Blast/Fiery Aura Elite Boss, with both Blazing Aura and Healing Flames, and had Dark Blast/Dark Miasma guards with Shadow Fall. He was able to hit for about 60% of my HP, my pets died from standing in attack range and I couldn't stand still to heal them. I finally got him by stacking Lucks with a Cryonite Armor temp and feeding my Jounin a few reds, and even then it was close. In the end Billy thanks you for your work, etc. yadda yadda yadda.
The arc has no theme and a large number of issues. Skip it.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Can you imagine having to do this one with only training enhancements, temp powers or an extensive array of powers? Say a level 6? For me that arc failed because it was not a TO arc in the first place. AV's do not belong in a lowbie arc.
For a similar reason, I agree with your assesment of Paulas tutorial. I think it is an excellent arc but it is not designed for lowbie play. It is designed for AE Noobs and it does an excellent job there.
I don't consider "multi-arc" a valid format. One arc is supposed to be a complete story. Whether the developers drew the line at three or five or fifty acts, that's how much space you get.
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If the increasing of our slot filesize maximum is a forerunner to them one day increasing the allowable number of missions per slot, then when it happens you'll be in an enviable position. You'll then have a whole slew of 'new' arcs to play and enjoy, as the MAuthors of currently multi-slot arcs combine their disparate sections into one slot to free up their others for writing more stories. Their works will then fit into your classification of what 'a complete story' is, without having to change their narrative in any way at all.
Everybody wins!
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Mr. Squid summed up my thoughts regarding your response to my post quite well, Venture. As much as I may be one of the few people on the boards that actually respects you and your opinion despite your sometimes caustic approach (whether or not I always agree with it), this is one clear example of where you allow your personal opinion on how the MA should operate to override the reality of the situation. That is, of course, your right. In this instance, however, evidence strongly suggests you're wrong.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
Arc #118690, "Sibling Rivalry"
tl;dr: 4 stars. Offenses: stilted dialog, weak theme
Reviewed on: 11/7/2009
Level Range: 1-20/1-20/5-20/1-20/1-20
Factions: Outcasts, Clockworks, Custom
Architect's Keywords: Custom Characters, Origin Story
My Keywords:
Character used: Ursus Minor/Freedom
Difficulty: +0x2+B-AV
War Witch (bio not copied) wants you to look into a Clockwork bank robbery. She wants you to find out why they're robbing a bank, which is unusual for them. The mission is a simple defeat-all on a bank map full of Clockwork. When the last one falls the end Clue narrates you hearing a voice in your mind angrily complaining that "Sister Flame" was supposed to come and stop him. War Witch tells you that she knows Sister Flame and she'll have to be warned of the threat.
War Witch manages to contact Sister Flame at the start of Act II via a scrying glass. Flame is judging a dance contest but before the two could talk much contact was lost thanks to a Troll attack. You have to race over and save Sister Flame from the...Disco Trolls.
It seems their leader Fudor found some disco movies in a dump, fell in love with the style and decided to bring disco back by force. My favorite was the Raging Fro troll whose power was "incredible hair, and he won't let you forget it". They were trying to get Sister Flame (non-combatant hostage, she leaves to make sure everyone else gets out OK when rescued) to declare Fudor the winner of the contest. In the debriefing, War Witch tells you that Sister Flame knows who made the telepathic threat at the bank: it was her brother.
Sister Flame's brother is a villain named Gearmaster. Flame won't tell why Gearmaster wants revenge against her but does want him stopped before he endangers anyone. Unfortunately War Witch's powers can't locate him. She has located one of his known associates though, a villainess named Sidestep. You and Flame are sent to capture her at an Outcasts hideout. She is a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Boss (her bio says her actual superpower is the ability to see three seconds into the future, a nice touch) and didn't last too long with both Ursus and Sister Flame pounding on her. Following percussive interrogation she gives up the addresses of three of Gearmaster's hideouts.
Act IV opens with Sister Flame going to check out the addresses Sidestep provided. You'd be doing that with her but...Fudor has escaped and demands a rematch. He's threatening to blow up part of Faultline if you don't show, so off you go. This is another simple map, Troll caves, with three bombs to disarm and a rematch with Fudor to win. Of course, when you get back Sister Flame has not returned from checking the last of the three addresses...
...so it's Time for the Fight Scene. You're off to the rescue with a bring-friends warning. The showdown takes place on an abandoned office map full of Clockwork. Sister Flame spawns as an ally rescue about midway through (typo: "calvary"); I passed by her and took on Gearmaster alone. He was a Fiery Blast/Psychic Blast Elite Boss with a substantial guard party. He dropped me quickly in the first round; I came back with more aggressive inspiration use to win in the second. His defeat clue narrates a fate I won't spoil, another nice touch. I doubled back to free Sister Flame and end the mission. War Witch thanks you for saving Sister Flame and wonders if we've seen the last of Gearmaster.
Normally this would get three stars from me. It gets an extra star for the humor in the Disco Trolls and out of acknowledgment that it's an incredible achievement given the architect's age. The arc has a theme, even if it doesn't do much with it, and shows a strong grasp of the fundamentals. The dialog could use some work but that will improve with time. Recommended.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Can you imagine having to do this one with only training enhancements, temp powers or an extensive array of powers? Say a level 6? For me that arc failed because it was not a TO arc in the first place. AV's do not belong in a lowbie arc.
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Yes, that is how I played it when I discovered it and that was before it had any warnings at all. I still decided to nominate it because I thought it was fun and interesting enough.
Level 6 may be a stretch, but if I could solo this at level 10 without any enhancements or temp powers at all then either you were playing some really weak solo build or are just a pansy. That's my honest opinion.
Yes, that is how I played it when I discovered it and that was before it had any warnings at all. I still decided to nominate it because I thought it was fun and interesting enough. |
TO arcs should be as difficult as existing Dev content. They should be soloable and accesable to veteran gamers and newbies alike. And when it says 1-15 then yes it should be doable by a level 6. In fact it must be doable by a level 1! AV's do not belong in the TO category and that arc is automatically disqualified by my standards.
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Why does it have to be that way? Isn't one of the main advantages of the MA system to do stuff that you don't get in the rest of the game? Frankly a lot of the low level Dev content is too easy anyway.
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If you want, there are thousands 1-54 arcs with all the Extreme AV's you might crave for. But when we have a category named TO range arcs, then that category gives expectations (to me at least). Therefore I judge them as I think TO arcs should be judged. Using a level 6 unenhanced scrapper. Normally seen as an AT capable of soloing pretty well.
That said, nothing is wrong with making a 1-15 level arc filled with Extreme AV's to challenge people who like that sort of thing. But don't label it as anything else but challenging unless you like 1 stars.
Edited the review of "Sibling Rivalry" to include screenshots -- Comcast's FTP server was out yesterday.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
And when it says 1-15 then yes it should be doable by a level 6.
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If you thought that an arc with a minimum level of 10 which contained EBs and AVs was suitable for a level 6 then the problem is somewhere else, likely inside your head.
The arc is actually levels 10-20. It falls into "TO Range" because a) Bubba set the cutoff at 15 but didn't specify that it had to have a max of 15 and b) it is soloable just fine at level 10, which is inside that 10-15 range. It wasn't difficult enough to be placed into the 15-25 range instead, which I had a different nomination for anyway.
If you thought that an arc with a minimum level of 10 which contained EBs and AVs was suitable for a level 6 then the problem is somewhere else, likely inside your head. |
I never had any problems finding that door on my first experience as a lowbie villain. It's true that players are conditioned not to bother trying doors, but I found the map layout and the direction you face as you start, pretty much leads you to the door to that big prominent building.
If you want confusing, Marshal Brass has you entering the TV broadcasting building (one of many in a large outdoor map) to access the roof for one of your objectives.
A Penny For Your Thoughts #348691 <- Dev's Choice'd by Dr. Aeon!
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