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A bit like how The Drakule arcs go Parts 1, 2, 3, and 5. Apparently Part 4 was preemptively retconned out of existence.
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Originally Posted by The_Cheshire_Cat
The "Part 6" is actually a joke. The arc is very tongue in cheek. I'd recommend giving it a run, it's one of the few humour arcs I actually find funny.
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Actually there's no part 3 either. It goes 1, 2, 5, Versus Werewolves.
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Originally Posted by Lazarus
A bit like how The Drakule arcs go Parts 1, 2, 3, and 5. Apparently Part 4 was preemptively retconned out of existence.
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And since the arc wasn't funny to him, he rated it three stars. What's the problem?
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Originally Posted by Wrong_Number
You say this like it is a statement of fact when the truth is that the arc wasn't funny to you.
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What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
Quote:
I'll hazard a guess at this one, although I'm speculating and I certainly can't claim to speak for Wrong Number here: his attitude. Even if he doesn't directly come out and say it, his tone gives some people the impression that if he rated it three stars, then it's really a three star arc, and anyone else who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Or has no taste. Or is contributing to grade inflation. Or supports no child left behind, and is therefore an idiot for that too (even though, for the record, I don't). Or doesn't really know what funny is.|
Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG
And since the arc wasn't funny to him, he rated it three stars. What's the problem?
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I can see why that would bother some people.
M.A. Arcs
Intended for high level play: The Primus Trilogy (Arc #s 10931, 283821, 283825), "Freakshow U" (Arc #189073), Purification (Arc #352381, Dev's Choice!
)Intended for low level play: "Learning the Ropes" (Arc #100304), "Cracking Skulls" (Arc #115935), "The Lazarus Project" (Arc #124906)
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The "problem" and I use that term loosely, is that he knew full well that the arc was about low brow humor before he even played it. That type of humor is not his cup of tea, which is perfectly fine, but he played the arc anyways. Not only that, he then criticized it based on the fact that it contains lowbrow humor!|
Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG
And since the arc wasn't funny to him, he rated it three stars. What's the problem?
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If I purchase country music knowing that I don't enjoy country music, can I really list in it's "offenses"- country music? Remember, I did not ask for a review of that arc, he picked it himself.
WN
Check out one of my most recent arcs:
457506 - A Very Special Episode - An abandoned TV, a missing kid's TV show host and more
416951 - The Ms. Manners Task Force - More wacky villains, Wannabes. things in poor taste
or one of my other arcs including two 2010 Player's Choice Winners and an2009 Official AE Awards Nominee for Best Original Story
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I'm gonna be unpopular here and say that, yes, yes you can. Looking over the fact that it's country music won't make you like the song any more. Going with the metaphor, he bought the album (for his own reasons) with full knowledge that it was country music. I know I can name one or two country songs which I quite like, despite disliking the genre as a whole. He gave it three stars - which, at least to me, is a note for "arc that doesn't do anything outright bad but doesn't stand out". If he really wanted to do it out of spite, the number would be lower.
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Originally Posted by Wrong_Number
The "problem" and I use that term loosely, is that he knew full well that the arc was about low brow humor before he even played it. That type of humor is not his cup of tea, which is perfectly fine, but he played the arc anyways. Not only that, he then criticized it based on the fact that it contains lowbrow humor!
If I purchase country music knowing that I don't enjoy country music, can I really list in it's "offenses"- country music? Remember, I did not ask for a review of that arc, he picked it himself. WN |
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
Quote:
I'd like to pipe in and say it's up to the reviewer's discretion how much leeway he is willing to give to "I may not like X, but I know some people do..." as in the end the review is and always will be his personal thoughts and feelings on the matter. When a reviewer writes they should be writing in an authoritative voice, that yes can at times come off as abrasive. To preface every criticism with "IMO" would be both redundant and rather silly.|
Originally Posted by Coulomb2
I'll hazard a guess at this one, although I'm speculating and I certainly can't claim to speak for Wrong Number here: his attitude. Even if he doesn't directly come out and say it, his tone gives some people the impression that if he rated it three stars, then it's really a three star arc, and anyone else who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Or has no taste. Or is contributing to grade inflation. Or supports no child left behind, and is therefore an idiot for that too (even though, for the record, I don't). Or doesn't really know what funny is.
I can see why that would bother some people. |
As for why Venture's going through the arcs he's currently going through, he's running through all the PC nominated stuff iirc.
A Penny For Your Thoughts #348691 <- Dev's Choice'd by Dr. Aeon!
Submit your MA arc for review & my arcs thread
Y'know, I wasn't going to say anything, but dude - that makes no sense. If I buy a country music album knowing full-well it's country, I've got no right to complain that it was country. I can complain if it's country done badly, but not that I got exactly what it said on the box. If an arc delivers exactly what was advertised, it's exceedingly rude to say things to the like of 'the arc was about X and I knew that when I started playing it, but I don't like X, so it's not a very good arc'.
Long story short, the problem is that one shouldn't give a 'review' - especially the unsolicited kind - of something one doesn't like in the first place, as it's nearly impossible to do so without a bias stemming from personal preconceptions. 'Reviews' written in this manner are helpful to neither author nor audience since they almost invariably focus far more on the topic the reviewer didn't like rather than the quality of the topic's delivery.
"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
Characters
Quote:
Based on the timing, my conjecture is that he was responding to this request to play some of @Wrong Number's arcs.|
Originally Posted by Tangler
As for why Venture's going through the arcs he's currently going through, he's running through all the PC nominated stuff iirc.
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Bear in mind that playing through someone's story arc and writing up a detailed critique is actually quite a large time investment. That being the case, a review of a story arc, even if negative or lukewarm, is something of a gift. I try to keep this in mind when I receive unfavorable reviews or feedback, which does happen.
In sympathy, I've had my share of "I didn't like this arc because I'm not into teen superteam books" or "This arc did nothing for me because I didn't watch Miami Vice" comments, and a correspondingly suboptimal star rating; and this, despite it being quite obvious what each of those story arcs was about. I feel like it's best to just accept such comments. They are a valid point of view, and these people did pick one of my story arcs out of a possible 300,000 published story arcs and spent an hour of their time playing it and actually took the additional time to leave me a note. That's much better than getting a low rating with no comment, or not getting someone to play the arc at all.
@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"
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If this were the case, and I have no idea whether it was or not, then I would find it odd that he would choose the one arc of hers on a topic he knows he doesn't like to review.|
Originally Posted by PoliceWoman
Based on the timing, my conjecture is that he was responding to this request to play some of @Wrong Number's arcs.
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| Bear in mind that playing through someone's story arc and writing up a detailed critique is actually quite a large time investment. |
Jail.Bird
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I recommend you read this article at critters.org for how to phrase a critique constructively. This assumes you're not trying to channel Jerry Springer (note: lowbrow) for shock value, and you're not trying to fob your bad hair day onto some random person on the internet (note: Syndrome). I felt (note: I felt) that Venture's comments were too invective to be constructive.
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Originally Posted by PoliceWoman
Bear in mind that playing through someone's story arc and writing up a detailed critique is actually quite a large time investment.
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Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
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It wasn't a constructive critique because he wasn't trying to offer constructive criticism. The review reads pretty much like that: a review. He pretty much just described the arc, stated that he didn't enjoy it, and stated why he didn't enjoy it.|
Originally Posted by airhead
I recommend you read this article at critters.org for how to phrase a critique constructively. This assumes you're not trying to channel Jerry Springer (note: lowbrow) for shock value, and you're not trying to fob your bad hair day onto some random person on the internet (note: Syndrome). I felt (note: I felt) that Venture's comments were too invective to be constructive.
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And I don't see where you're getting the invective tone from. This is probably one of the tamest reviews Venture has ever done for an arc he didn't like. Hell, he didn't even tell anyone not to play it.
(I keep telling myself I won't get involved in these things, but they just keep pulling me back in)
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I am from New Jersey. | (I keep telling myself I won't get involved in these things, but they just keep pulling me back in) |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
The suggestion was for anyone misled into thinking Venture provided constructive feedback (a popular but not universal definition of 'critique'). It was not for Venture, he already said he's leaving the building.
Oh, hi Venture!
Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
Arc: Coming Soon: The Incarnate Shadow Shard of Fire and Ice Mender Rednem needs you!
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Quote:
'cept he didn't.|
Originally Posted by DeviousMe
If an arc delivers exactly what was advertised, it's exceedingly rude to say things to the like of 'the arc was about X and I knew that when I started playing it, but I don't like X, so it's not a very good arc'.
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"The arc was about X and I knew that when I started playing it. Other than X, which I don't like, it doesn't have any special merits, so it's not a very good arc if you don't like X, like me."
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by airhead
The suggestion was for anyone misled into thinking Venture provided constructive feedback (a popular but not universal definition of 'critique').
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Since my understanding of "critique" has been challenged here, as a point of fact, I offer the dictionary definition of "critique" according to two independent references:
From Wiktionary:
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Originally Posted by Wiktionary
Noun
critique (plural critiques) Essay in which another piece of work is criticised, reviewed, etc. Verb to critique (third-person singular simple present critiques, present participle critiquing, simple past and past participle critiqued) (US) To review something. |
From Dictionary.com:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dictionary.com
cri·tique
noun 1.an article or essay criticizing a literary or other work; detailed evaluation; review. 2.a criticism or critical comment on some problem, subject, etc. 3.the art or practice of criticism. verb (used with object) 4.to review or analyze critically. |
I did read the article you linked at critters.org, though, and enjoyed it. I largely agree with it, but, obviously, some people do not. I do find that even if you phrase your critique very tactfully, some people will still take offense at any criticism. Which is somewhat understandable; people have a lot of emotion and effort invested in their work.
@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"
Quote:
Exactly. Case in point. To the like of and exceedingly rude.|
Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG
'cept he didn't.
"The arc was about X and I knew that when I started playing it. Other than X, which I don't like, it doesn't have any special merits, so it's not a very good arc if you don't like X, like me." |
(And yeah LJ, I know what you mean. If you figure out a way, please let me know.
)
"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
Characters
Quote:
Huh? I said "critiquing" doesn't always equate to "constructive criticism", but provided a source for how it could be done well that way. I assigned nothing.|
Originally Posted by PoliceWoman
I believe these definitions align more closely with my usage of the word, than the one you are assigning.
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I do not agree that an author need be grateful for "time invested in detailed critique" if it is not constructive. And I doubt Venture expects that. The author is a small part of his audience.
Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
Arc: Coming Soon: The Incarnate Shadow Shard of Fire and Ice Mender Rednem needs you!
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Quote:
So wait, it's exceedingly rude to say that you don't like something?|
Originally Posted by DeviousMe
Exactly. Case in point. To the like of and exceedingly rude.
(And yeah LJ, I know what you mean. If you figure out a way, please let me know. ) |
Oh jeez. Apparently the only polite way to operate in the MA now is to 5 star everything and say it was awesome to avoid hurting peoples' feelings? Everyone really needs to grow thicker skin if that's the case.
I wonder how people would feel if Venture had 3-starred the arc, but called it awesome. I'm interested in what's more important here.
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
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My feeling about In Poor Taste is that it reached the pinnacle of its potential when it received the Players Choice Award for Best Comedy of 09. I never had any delusions that it would ever be a Developers Choice and I fully realized that it is far too polarizing to make Hall of Fame. So, in this case, the rating is really meaningless (at least to me). I wrote it for my husband and for my sons. They love it, so mission accomplished.|
Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
I wonder how people would feel if Venture had 3-starred the arc, but called it awesome. I'm interested in what's more important here.
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As previously stated, the thing that I dont understand is how a person can select anything that is clearly labeled as something they know they dont like and then put it down for being exactly what it said it was in the first place. What is the point? A "review" from someone who get's no enjoyment from that form of humor and therefore has no real way to judge what is good or funny other than to say "I don't like this type of humor" is pointless.
Venture's review forum would have been better served if he simply had said, I chose not to review In Poor Taste because I don't like lowbrow humor.
WN
Check out one of my most recent arcs:
457506 - A Very Special Episode - An abandoned TV, a missing kid's TV show host and more
416951 - The Ms. Manners Task Force - More wacky villains, Wannabes. things in poor taste
or one of my other arcs including two 2010 Player's Choice Winners and an2009 Official AE Awards Nominee for Best Original Story
Quote:
That's not what he's saying. What DM said is that to write a review of something that you knowingly don't like is rude. For myself, I personnally don't like tv medical shows. So, for me to write a review of a Grey's Anatomy where I describe the show as a turgid snorefest and amend it with the statement that I don't like tv medical dramas would, according to DM, be rude. I don't know that I would consider that rude but, it certainly does pass my definition of trolling.
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Originally Posted by LaserJesus
So wait, it's exceedingly rude to say that you don't like something?
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Jail.Bird
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If it's trolling, then it's the tamest trolling I've ever seen. And if it is trolling, then holy ****, mission accomplished. If this was just between Wrong Number and Venture then I wouldn't have come in here to try and tell everyone to take a chill pill. Everyone's rushing to her defense over a review that wasn't harshly worded in the slightest compared to Venture's others, and gave three stars besides him not liking it. I dunno, but that rating, to me, says that the arc is technically well constructed despite him not getting any of the jokes.|
Originally Posted by Jail_Bird
That's not what he's saying. What DM said is that to write a review of something that you knowingly don't like is rude. For myself, I personnally don't like tv medical shows. So, for me to write a review of a Grey's Anatomy where I describe the show as a turgid snorefest and amend it with the statement that I don't like tv medical dramas would, according to DM, be rude. I don't know that I would consider that rude but, it certainly does pass my definition of trolling.
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The real irony is that his seemingly negative review will probably get Wrong Number's arc more plays as people play it to spite Venture if this dialogue continues in this fashion.
Just FYI, I really didn't know what to expect out of the arc. I don't read reviews of arcs I haven't played. If I had known that it was not merely just below-the-waist humor but actually one joke stretched out to three missions, I wouldn't have even played it, never mind reviewed it.
And that's all I got to say about that. I'll be scrolling over further discussion on this.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
The arc got three stars because it wasn't funny.
WN
Check out one of my most recent arcs:
457506 - A Very Special Episode - An abandoned TV, a missing kid's TV show host and more
416951 - The Ms. Manners Task Force - More wacky villains, Wannabes. things in poor taste
or one of my other arcs including two 2010 Player's Choice Winners and an2009 Official AE Awards Nominee for Best Original Story