Noob Question about Crey

[The account is not new. Girlfriend has played on-again, off-again for a long time. I am the new one - and I RP, whereas she doesn't. Well, *says* she doesn't.]

[Uh, anyway.]

Okay, so, I'm coming up-to-speed on what's what in the CoX universe, and I've noticed - you know, being the observant type, and aware of the subtle and scarely-noticed details - that the Crey Corp. are not, in fact, Good People.

If you were the sort of person to make broad, sweeping generalizations, you might even call them an Evil Corporation.

And I'm down with that. Fits a super-game, about super-folk.

Er, 'cept... ...it doesn't. Here's my problem.

Hero-1, Statesman, Back Street Brawler, Manticore, and probably a lot of other hero(es) I haven't met yet aren't big fans of Crey. Some of them outright don't like them, for assorted reasons. Even occasionally engage in violence against Crey soldiers... er, workers.

So, in my head, I see Back Alley Brawler (I strongly suspect there are far more anti-Crey heroes - I choose him because I remember him, 'cuz I'm new, remember) rescuing, say, an orphanage, from the path of a burning something-or-other. And the media runs over to him, to generally bask in his Awesome and broadcast it on the 6:00 news for everyone else to bask a little. And they say, "So, Back Street Brawler, now that you've saved all these innocent people, anything to say for the kids at home?"

...why *doesn't* he say, "Yeah, never, ever, EVER, buy anything from Crey. They're an evil megacorporation trying to rule and / or destroy our planet."

...because, like, that's a media *FRENZY*, right there.

Some possibilities suggested to me -
1) Crey is like Wal-Mart. Everyone knows they're evil, but their prices are just *THAT GOOD*. I don't buy this, because Wal-Mart isn't "attacking you on the street" type evil, or "creating supervillians" type evil. More "subtly ruining your economy" type evil, which doesn't seem comparable. And I know that if [Superhero] told me Wal-Mart was Evil, it would affect my opinion.

2) Crey has a monopoly on high-tech devices. Similar to the above, but it's not that Crey has great prices, per se, but the *only* prices. I can sorta get that, but it doesn't get around everyone knowing Crey is a super-evil company. And given the kind of Evil Crey is (that being, the kind of evil there are laws against), one thinks they'd be shut down and all that high-techness redistributed.
(Yes, this is the "Crey is Microsoft" arguement. First Wal-Mart, then Microsoft - wow, Crey really IS evil.)

3) Crey has sufficient media control that this isn't a problem. And that may be true, but that seems like the sort of thing super-heroes would take action against, somehow. Big superhero banners in the sky, or sucking up the civil suits for slander / libel, or such. And if Crey has THAT MUCH media control, it raises the question of why *every* hero knows Crey is evil. (...there's no good real life equal to this. Of course, if there was, I wouldn't know, anyway, would I?)

...


So, I was wondering which one of these (or combination, or other possibilities) was the "official" reason there's still a Crey Corporation, and / or which was the Virtue-Verse [O]fficial answer. Because this is actually kind-of-a-big-deal to me and my suspension of disbelief.

[Addendum - Yes, I have characters that have sworn off going to AE because it's owned / operated by Crey. In fact, if your heroes haven't, but still fight Crey on missions.. ... ... ...what's that say about them, hmm?]

Crey has never been convicted of anything. She has way more lawyers. Charged a whole lot of times, and sure, there have been some unfortunate incidents involving rogue agents, etc but... TA DA!

Announcing the Paragon Protector, a new line of hero! Unlike those opinionated showboaters who continue to slander Crey's good name, these guys actually just do good without championing any kind of anti-capitalist agenda.

So yeah. People get distracted, and the harder a hero attacks Crey in the media, the more mud the hero's name gets trawled through.

About foreswearing the AE: That's very noble, but, you realise that even your Ascendant-O's breakfast cereal wouldn't reach you without Crey technology? Boycotting a major multinational corporation is very tricky.

And what's next, you try and shut down that orphanage they've funded too? (even if one of the kids did go missing in mysterious circumstances...)

I don't understand it either. The official explanation, as far as I can remember, is that they have great lawyers and all evildoing is by rogue agents. That works up until I remember that every time I see a Crey employee on the street, they shoot me. How do they explain away enough "rogue agents" to provide good coverage of a couple zones? And for that matter, what could they legitimately need with snipers all over Founders' Falls?

I can't suspend disbelief quite far enough to explain all of that. I tend to assume that they're evil and known as such to the hero population but that the rest of the populace is either sedated with Crey Cola and other products or that the laywers are supernaturally good. In RP, I try to avoid the whole problem and not discuss Crey workings.

Honestly? Because it's a comic book world and the idea of media control and manipulation by a corporation that spans the ENTIRE GLOBE isn't as far fetched as it might be in the real world. Yes, that's a bit of a cop out, but look at other things in the game.

Why doesn't everyone know that EVERY cave door in paragon city or the rogue isles either leads to a council base or oranbega. Literally. Every one. I'm thinking neo-fascists and sorcerers probably don't have the media clout that Countess Crey does.

How is ANYTHING accomplished, for that matter, in a city where you literally cannot walk down the street without being mugged by what amounts to a drugged out junkie wearing more armor than a sherman tank? Or a demon from another dimension? Heck, even a fire breathing gang member.

The point being... though we try to explain everything, it's just not real at the end of the day, and that's your explanation. Frustrating I'm sure. *shrugs*

This is a point recently brought up in another thread. Basically, bad Crey everywhere is a game mechanic which was needed when the game was overrun with new players and street fighting was frequent. You needed the extra spawns.

The suggestion made was that the devs (War Witch?) rework some of the Crey areas, particularly Brickstown, to have bad Crey spawning in the back alleys and have "good" Crey spawning in the streets, even attacking other villain factions. It would make the point that people are confused for a good reason.

Crey definitely has powerful legal, and possibly media control. There's a whole zone gone toxic wasteland thanks to Crey and folks knew the truth enough to call it Crey's Folly. Despite this, Crey still exists and is even considered "friendly" by most? Definitely information control.

((There are corporations in the real world whose methods and ideals are downright evil. If that were not so, there would be no such thing as child labor and pollution so bad it causes entire villages to get sick. Some of them are American companies, and we all buy their products.

There are corporations in business today that run mercenary armies in some countries, and some of their personnel are responsible for attrocities in those countries. Some of them are American companies and we all buy their products.

There is at least one prominent European country where the government's leader is a media mogul with suspected organized crime ties who allegedly controls what is said about his government because he controls all the media in that country.

I'm not saying that all big corporations are bad, nor that all media moguls are corrupt. I'm just pointing out that the concept of an openly evil regime or corporation isn't far-fetched at all, even in the real world.

What's that saying? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely?

Going back to the fictional land of CoH: You must remember that Paragon City is a place with a wall of energy around it and is considered somewhat of a "war zone" as a whole. It's in a constant state of emergency. As such, it has a sort of separation from the rest of the country so that reports of Crey's wrongdoing coming out of Paragon could be easily spun by a big publicity machine into a non-event, no matter who it is that is criticizing them. (That happens in the real world too.) And it's standard comic book universe proceedure as exemplified by Lex Luthor and Norman Osborne. ))

It's as they say, try and drag Crey Industries through the mud and it's your name that gets dragged through.

Their current list of cannon crimes include -

Murder - Synapse's best friend was murdered, then resurrected in a science experiment to see if they could raise the dead.

Performing illegal experiments on people without permission - Synapse gained his powers after being kidnapped by Crey as he discovered a discrepancy in their accounts that they didn't want making public.

Kidnapping and illegal containment of Meta - Humans - The Paragon Protector Project is maintained by kidnapping and cloning of heroes.

Bribery - Certain Crey story arcs will have official warrants for your arrest issued for crimes against Crey Industries following anonymous donations to leading political figures.

Witholding of Rikti Tech from Vanguard - The first Rikti War.

Unfortunately the countess's laywers know every loophole in the books and no official charges have ever stuck against a board member. Although, if you're a scientist on the payroll doing the illegal experiments, expect to be used as a scapegoat when things go pear shaped.

Let's see...

Crey's Folly was already polluted, that's why you don't see any houses there. It's a very polluted area, and was before the Rikti targetted a facility (probably illegal) that made the water polluted, and also created the green mist in the area. It was abandoned, and everybody knows it was Crey's fault for the poisoning of the area. Thus, it's Crey's folly.

Crey corporation on the other hand, is a little different. The public eye sees Crey as a helpful corporation, helping keep crime off the streets and also a reputable company.
With the goverment investigating, no charges were laid. Also, there's no evidence to prove Crey is performing illegal acts, so the company cannot be shut down. The only time Crey was actually caught, the Countess managed to prove that the scientists who were working on some bodies were rogue scientists who didn't work for the company anymore. Also that they had no clue it was happening.

Basically, there's no proof of Countess Crey's direct involvement in any illegal matters (EXCEPT for that one Arc).

Crey's bad news, but there's really nothing you can do until you get hard evidence, which they've managed to purchase away from everyone else at the last moment. Crime is pretty much recession proof, after all (if anything, hard economic times encourage it), and as long as they can manage to flummox Paragon City's legal system (and let's face it, it's hardly starting off with a spotless track record), they'll be posting record gains alongside of Extensive Enterprises and Stane Industries every quarter.

Crime might not pay initially. but if you're large enough, the economies of scale make it pay off eventually.

(((There's a huge history of evil corporations in comics. Luthor Corp and Roxxon come to mind. To the public they are no worse then the "evil" corporations Herriod spoke, they may cross into some grey areas but aren't trying to take over the world. The Heroes know better, but honestly even the big guns would have trouble taking that to he media or collecting enough evidence finish the job. A fact the annoys Jack to no end, being a responsible benign multinational owner

I always assume the street spawns shoot first.....or you know looked at me funny and deserved what they got ))

O.k. heavy spoilers here, so you may not want to read on.

Crey industries and all their little sub companies are based on the empire built up by the billionaire Alphonse Crey. Now our friend Alphonse after building his empire married the beautifull you clarissa van dorn and then tragicaly fell into a coma and has never recovered. Despite the fact that many people thought that she had married him just for his money the plucky clarrisa crey as she now is went on to keep the company running and making proffit saving the jobs of many many ordinary citizens. Now unfortunately many people out there are still trying to slander her with lies and rumours that have never been proven. Well thats the publics view of her anyway.

It turns out that Clarissa Van Dorn is actualy Julianne Thompson, She married Alphonse under false pretenses for his money, and then used his money to develop the poison that has put him into the coma he is in now.

So to the people on the street Crey industries is an old company with a long history of being no more or less evil than any other big company, however ever since Count Crey married a younger woman personal attacks have been being made against her and the corporation. Due to her control of the media and her armies of lawyers no proof ever gets out, so it all looks like conspiracy thoeries and ad homnien attacks.

It will probably take a lot of time or some major revelations for peoples opinion of Crey industries to change, and dont forget that for every sniper on the roof tops, there are thousands of ordinary paragon citizens working for crey industries on perfectly normal and legal every day stuff.

Come on guys, the reason people still trust Crey is very simple. It's all part of a Nemesis plot!