Stop wasting my time with nonsense!
By
Afterimage,
Posted on: 2009-10-24 08:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Sorry but i laughed lol
+rep to you 
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Fully agree with ya Sam.
This is why I keep facepalming when Posi goes on about 'New Content over Revamps'...
Has he PLAYED some of the old carp blue side? Its bad. No, its not just bad, it sucks worse than Lusca trying to take someones face off after the big girls been on lemons for a few weeks.
Hunts are BORING. Talking to PvP contacts and Security Chiefs is BORING. This is Emmert Legacy, back when people were expected to street-sweep to level up and suchnot.
Posi, guys, I emplore you. I17, I18, whichever one, someone take out the garbage and give the game a much deserved revamp in the missions department.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yeah... Sam? Ever since around Issue 16's release, you've been ******** and complaining and whining a LOT more than you used to. So what's up? Just more free time, so more time to play the game, so more time to find things to complain about... or is something else going on here?
*points at the couch*
Here, lay down and tell me all about it.
*pulls out a clipboard and pen*
Tell me about your mother...
Yes, the contact runaround can be pretty bad. At least we only have to fill up the first friendship bar to get the cell phone number these days, instead of the second.
It certainly would be nice for the devs to clean that up a bit. Personally, I don't mind it much though. When I get a new set of contacts, I try to pick one near a tram to make it easier to get those generic runarounds (like the PVP reps) out of the way.
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Frankly, I think I'm just finally reaching my boiling point. These things I complain about aren't new. They've been here for years, some even forever. They don't bother me all that much in principle, but they just grate so much. I don't mind a PvP liaison visit. I don't mind a Security Chief hunt. And even when they string themselves together into half of my palysession, I can usually laugh about it and laugh it off. But these things aren't going away. On the contrary, they keep multiplying, on and on.|
Originally Posted by Westley
Yeah... Sam? Ever since around Issue 16's release, you've been ******** and complaining and whining a LOT more than you used to. So what's up? Just more free time, so more time to play the game, so more time to find things to complain about... or is something else going on here?
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I'm generally a patient, understanding person, hard as that may be to believe. But when I run into the same niggling problems time after time, day after day, character after character, each time they bug me ever so slightly more. I just hit my eight 50 a few days ago and missed when I got my 60 month veteran reward at some point his week. I've been around the block a fair share of times, and I can tell you one thing - these... *deep breaths* "Problems" never bother me less than they did last time.
But you know what sucks the most? This doesn't have to be this way! There is NO reason why these clumps of useless wastes of time has to exist. There's no reason why Security chiefs have to be mandatory, no reason why PvP zone visits can't be staggered a little bit, or made optional for veteran players. There's no reason why I need to be ordered to visit contacts before anyone will give me missions again when just adding these contacts to my list would be BETTER. These are not just how things go. They're problems that have no justifiable reason to exist, or exist still, at the very least. It's like not only are they wasting my time, they're wasting my time for absolutely NO reason whatsoever.
I love this game, I really do. But some times, I feel like certain things were designed with the overriding objective of irritating players and nothing else. Why?!?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well, the purpose is to introduce newer players to stuff that they could easily miss. The code's not smart enough to figure out that you've already done those missions with other characters. Who knows how difficult it would be to make the code smarter.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I love this game, I really do. But some times, I feel like certain things were designed with the overriding objective of irritating players and nothing else. Why?!?
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Maybe it's time you take a break then? We all have to take a break sometime, I've already taken two in the last 5 years. Maybe that's an indicator that it's your turn now?
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Introducing us to PvP zones and, yes, even the difficulty person, that I can see. Introducing me to Jim Temblor? No. That I can't see. Why? Why not just stuff him in my contacts list, like all the others? Like Montague, like Mercedes, like Sister I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Ghost-Widow. Take out the mandatory contact introductions and either remove Security Chiefs or stagger them away from the levels at which PvP zones are introduced, and you essentially solve the problem.|
Originally Posted by Mirai
Well, the purpose is to introduce newer players to stuff that they could easily miss. The code's not smart enough to figure out that you've already done those missions with other characters. Who knows how difficult it would be to make the code smarter.
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I could drone on and on about how much I hate a single PvP zone visit, but the truth is, I don't mind. It's getting three-four missions at a time with this that really gets my goat.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Nah. Something like that is far too minor to get me stop playing the game. It's HIDEOUSLY annoying, but only as long as it lasts. As soon as it's over, it's still a very fun, very exciting game.
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Originally Posted by Westley
Maybe it's time you take a break then? We all have to take a break sometime, I've already taken two in the last 5 years. Maybe that's an indicator that it's your turn now?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Because that contact introduction was created before the code that automatically introduces certain contacts. Just like the Hollows, Striga, and Croatoa introductions. The code could certainly be changed, but even if the devs feel inclined to make the change, it's probably a pretty low priority. (But you never know, sufficient complaints could bump up the priority.)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Introducing us to PvP zones and, yes, even the difficulty person, that I can see. Introducing me to Jim Temblor? No. That I can't see. Why? Why not just stuff him in my contacts list, like all the others? Like Montague, like Mercedes, like Sister I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Ghost-Widow.
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Actually, Temblor's introduction was done after that. The earliest I can think of of contacts auto-introducing themselves is CoV's I6. Brokers do that every time you come into a zone. Temblor came with I7, on the other hand, and should have used that code, but didn't. Instead, we were more or less ordered to go to him, and I don't see why that was. It's a new zone, yes, but it's not going to be new to the new players who actually need to be introduced to it, and... Well, the veterans would know how to find Temblor if he were introduced the old-fashioned way.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I fully agree with the OP. Change those missions to Optional missions.
Oh, and let contacts give their cellphone number sooner.
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Early City of Heroes missions not as streamlined as more recent content shocker! Pictures at eleven.
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My mother? Let me tell you about my mother...
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Originally Posted by Westley
Yeah... Sam? Ever since around Issue 16's release, you've been ******** and complaining and whining a LOT more than you used to. So what's up? Just more free time, so more time to play the game, so more time to find things to complain about... or is something else going on here?
*points at the couch* Here, lay down and tell me all about it. *pulls out a clipboard and pen* Tell me about your mother... |
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Yes, you're right about the brokers (and detectives). However, the main thrust for adding more automatic introductions was due to many players missing unlockable CoV contacts. Certain other contacts that didn't already have introductions were added to the list, like Daedalus. The devs apparently felt that if any contact already had an introduction, no automatic introduction was needed.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Actually, Temblor's introduction was done after that. The earliest I can think of of contacts auto-introducing themselves is CoV's I6. Brokers do that every time you come into a zone. Temblor came with I7, on the other hand, and should have used that code, but didn't. Instead, we were more or less ordered to go to him, and I don't see why that was. It's a new zone, yes, but it's not going to be new to the new players who actually need to be introduced to it, and... Well, the veterans would know how to find Temblor if he were introduced the old-fashioned way.
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I'm sure many players would love to have an automatic Hollows introduction instead of having to travel there. So keep pushing for a change.
I DONT WANT REVAMPS OF OLD CRAP.
I want NEW STUFF to do.
I have done all that OLD CRAP... Not gonna do it again...
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
I DONT WANT REVAMPS OF OLD CRAP.
I want NEW STUFF to do. I have done all that OLD CRAP... Not gonna do it again... |
El Perfecto Paino has hit the nail on the head
Let all these small changes be included in the next batch of QOL issues we get. For now though, we want more new content! No more QOL issues for at least the next three issues PLEASE!
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Not to mention that later hero contacts have a much better system. When you are at the right level for Montague's Midnighter arcs or the tutorial at the University, you get a popup message telling you that you have a new contact and Montague or whatever just shows up on your contact list. If Tremblor and the like had this new system, we'd all be satisfied I think.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Actually, Temblor's introduction was done after that. The earliest I can think of of contacts auto-introducing themselves is CoV's I6. Brokers do that every time you come into a zone. Temblor came with I7, on the other hand, and should have used that code, but didn't. Instead, we were more or less ordered to go to him, and I don't see why that was. It's a new zone, yes, but it's not going to be new to the new players who actually need to be introduced to it, and... Well, the veterans would know how to find Temblor if he were introduced the old-fashioned way.
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
I DONT WANT REVAMPS OF OLD CRAP.
I want NEW STUFF to do. I have done all that OLD CRAP... Not gonna do it again... |
P_P, as your new best friend, I have to ask you to calm down. You're starting to scare the children.
Just poking my head out from Lurker Land to say great post, Sam, couldn't agree more. Don't fret about the Rage, you do so in a comedic fashion that I find highly amusing, and yet still find time to inject logical arguments. I do believe it's a +Rep moment.
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Your level 15 contacts will send you to Faultline and the PVP recruiter. The PVP recruiter sits at the same end of Skyway City as the door to Faultline. Plan ahead. Pick two contacts in Skyway City, visit them one after the other, complete the missions, no muss no fuss. Bang you are done.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Fully agree with ya Sam.
This is why I keep facepalming when Posi goes on about 'New Content over Revamps'... Has he PLAYED some of the old carp blue side? Its bad. No, its not just bad, it sucks worse than Lusca trying to take someones face off after the big girls been on lemons for a few weeks. Hunts are BORING. Talking to PvP contacts and Security Chiefs is BORING. This is Emmert Legacy, back when people were expected to street-sweep to level up and suchnot. Posi, guys, I emplore you. I17, I18, whichever one, someone take out the garbage and give the game a much deserved revamp in the missions department. |
The level 20 contacts send you to Striga, and a PVP recruiter in Steel Canyon. No way to lump these two together, but you can minimize the pain by taking missions from contacts in Talos Island instead of Independence Port.
As someone else has already pointed out, these missions have a purpose. It is to direct new players to zones that aren't accessible from the train stations, once they are of an appropriate level to play in those zones. Just because you are already familiar with those zones does not mean that the missions should be removed.
The Security Chiefs are completely optional, you never have to take their missions, and not taking their missions won't block you from any other missions. If you contact only gives you Security Chief missions, then he or she is out of other missions.
The developers are well aware that experienced players are tired of the old content. That's one of the reasons behind Mission Architect, and why they have twice increased the rate at which players level in the lower levels. Once with experience smoothing, and once by giving more experience for levels 5-25.
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Except these missions don't tell you how to get there any more so than a pop-up saying "Stephanie Peebles has requested your help. Take the smuggler cargo ship to Striga Island and meet with her." Introduction missions have no point, because contact introductions already exist. The only difference between a regular contact introduction and an introduction mission is that with a contact introduction, you pick when (and if) you want to go, whereas with an introduction mission, you do it NOW, or it clogs a spot in your mission queue. And unlike a lot of other MMOs, here you only have three. One down is a big thing.|
Originally Posted by Afterimage
As someone else has already pointed out, these missions have a purpose. It is to direct new players to zones that aren't accessible from the train stations, once they are of an appropriate level to play in those zones. Just because you are already familiar with those zones does not mean that the missions should be removed.
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Introduce new players, by all means. But do so in a better way. This one is NOT good.
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| The Security Chiefs are completely optional, you never have to take their missions, and not taking their missions won't block you from any other missions. If you contact only gives you Security Chief missions, then he or she is out of other missions. |
Generally speaking, though, ALL of this is a giant waste of time both for newbies and for veterans. The only missions I'm willing to concede are actually good are the missions introducing players to game mechanics or to PvP. There is no need to introduce contacts, not by special mission. Why do some contacts need to be introduced and others don't? Why do I get introduced to Ashley McKnight and Darryn Wayde like they're the world's most ordinary contacts, but I can't be introduced to Detective Wincott the same way? And Security Chief missions are just silly. OK, I understand the merit of having them, but FORCING them on people is a clear mistake, especially for hazard/trial zone Security Chiefs. Unless you expect people to go to a zone and just... Hunt, which they won't, there's no reason to shove a level 7 Blaster into Perez Park where spawns are huge and level 8 and above. Not as part of a mission which cannot be avoided.
Making certain missions into one giant waste of time serves no-one. It doesn't serve the veterans because we know and we don't care. It doesn't serve the new players, because they're suddenly obligated to trek all over creation, and it's actually BAD for them because these missions trick them into think they HAVE to do Wincott's missions. There are right ways to handle introductions and wrong ways to handle introductions. Introduction missions are the wrong way, and new content clearly demonstrates that the developers do indeed agree on that. Aside from Senator Aquila introducing you to Marcus (all of 100 feet down the street, so meh), you are never sent to a contact to be introduced to him.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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While I could be wrong about this, I do think the developers have talked about the lower zone revamps on a regular basis.
First was Faultline, then Hollows, and those turned out pretty well on the mission progression front. We also know Baumtown is on the list of zones to revamp.
However, revamping missions, and redirecting storylines, takes time and resources. Time that the developers haven't had in the past. As I understand it, Miss Melissa (War Witch) was pretty much solely responsibly for the Hollows rework... and that took how long?
For the most part, the CoH devs simply haven't had the resources to go through and do a comprehensive review and reassignment of low-level missions. We do know that Going Rogue is intended to provide a new introductory zone to get players up to speed on the game basics. We also know that a large portion of the development team is doing nothing but working on Going Rogue.
We've had a steady trickle of new developers showing up on the forums. Arbiter Kim and Dr. Aeon come to mind. We're started to see the studio expansion take shape and produce results.
So yes, this probably is a good time to start poking the developers to schedule for early hero content revamp. However, I don't think we should actually expect anything to be done until after Going Rogue launches and developers are available to review and modify the older content.
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Not before GR, certainly.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
While I could be wrong about this, I do think the developers have talked about the lower zone revamps on a regular basis.
First was Faultline, then Hollows, and those turned out pretty well on the mission progression front. We also know Baumtown is on the list of zones to revamp. However, revamping missions, and redirecting storylines, takes time and resources. Time that the developers haven't had in the past. As I understand it, Miss Melissa (War Witch) was pretty much solely responsibly for the Hollows rework... and that took how long? For the most part, the CoH devs simply haven't had the resources to go through and do a comprehensive review and reassignment of low-level missions. We do know that Going Rogue is intended to provide a new introductory zone to get players up to speed on the game basics. We also know that a large portion of the development team is doing nothing but working on Going Rogue. We've had a steady trickle of new developers showing up on the forums. Arbiter Kim and Dr. Aeon come to mind. We're started to see the studio expansion take shape and produce results. So yes, this probably is a good time to start poking the developers to schedule for early hero content revamp. However, I don't think we should actually expect anything to be done until after Going Rogue launches and developers are available to review and modify the older content. |
But saying people should plan ahead for this?
You shouldn't have to plan ahead in a game unless you want to. I dont mean tactics and stuff, I mean picking up missions. Sure, you can carefully plot which arcs you do, min/max the rewards and all that, get certain temp powers and unlock different contact streams.
That shouldnt be mandatory. Not by a long shot.
And given the Devs have in fact made a new, and better contact system (The window pop-ups for the Cim contacts, Megs Mason, Ashley Mcknight etc) we KNOW that it is possible. Yes, it will take time, but whoever got anything worthwhile without spending time on it?
They should make the Security Chiefs actual, decent contacts. They give you one hunt mission or something piddly. Include more about the zones they are in, the groups you are fighting, stuff to really get your teeth into. The Petrovic Brothers, the Hellions and their obsession with Satanism, The Family and their Supradine ring and stuff. It could be fantastic...but all the old content is lacking in comparison to the new stuff.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Note for people itching to give me negative reputation: Yes, I do complain a whole lot, and yes, I'm a very negative person. I get it.
Now, here's something I've complained before, that was just now taken to a WHOLE new level of suck. You know how, if you level up in the Hollows and get to 15-16, the very first thing a regular contact will have you do is go on a chain of useless missions? Go visit Jim Temblor in Faultline, go visit the Bloody Bay liaison at the butt end of Skyway City, go visit the Hero Corps field analyst in Kings Row, go visit the Skyway City Security Chief, go visit ET at home, you know the drill. This ALWAYS happens! And I ALWAYS grumble about it. To other people if other people are available to listen, or to myself if that's what it comes to. I've even grumbled to you, people of the forums, and done so several times. But this is old news. We've all seen it.
This time, I got something new. Something much worse. With the new levelling speed, I level up pretty fast. I wasted my mission drop on the visit to Jim Temblor (and then got stuck going there anyway, to visit the Siren's Call liaison), but that wasn't half of it. That was yesterday. Today I levelled up to 20, did my cape and costume missions, and decided to do some of the old content I haven't done in a while.
What
A
Mistake!
I picked a woman in the North-Western corner of Independence Port, by the Training store, because I hadn't run her missions in years. She gives me a Sky Raider mission, and I think "Hey, this is pretty good. I like that." Boy was I wrong! First mission afterwards? Go visit Stephanie Peebles on Striga Island. Ugh! That is half way across IP on DO Fly. Twice - once there, once back. Talk about a boring waste of time. And I can't drop the missions, since I already dropped Temblor the day before. So I fly and I fly and I fly and I speak with Stepahine, then I fly and I fly and I fly and I go back to my contact. Next mission? Go to the Siren's Call liaison. Bloody *unprintable obscenity* hell! That's almost half-way across Independence Port AND halfway across Steel Canyon AND halfway back across Steel Canyon AND halfway across Independence Port back to my contact.
Ugh! Well that sucked big time, but at least it's over. I can FINALLY get to some real missions, right? Right? Wrong! Next mission? Go talk to the Talos Island Security Chief. Argh! I don't WANT to talk to the Talos Island Security Chief! I don't want to fly half-way across Independence Port TWICE and fly all over Talos Island on a hunt mission I don't want to do to begin with! But I don't have a choice, do I? I can't do regular content until I do, because all I'll have offered to me is the Security Chief hunt mission... Or a regular hunt mission. Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place. Only this time it's more like being caught between a dung pile and an outhouse.
I HATE THIS!!!
Listen, I'm a patient man. I travel everywhere, I enjoy travelling with Fly, I explore all of my missions, I do my long story arcs diligently and do all of my pointless, redundant missions (like search dimension 1, then search dimension 2, then search dimension 3). I do that. It's all part of the game, and I'll do whatever it takes. But this... This is just too much. I want to kill stuff! I signed up for this game to play a super hero and beat up bad guys! I did not sign up to fly over the world's biggest dry dock! I did not sign up for the heart-stopping action of going to talk to people!
This is nuts! I know where Stepahnie Peebles is. I know she needs help. I don't want to help her, and you can't make me! I know about PvP and the PvP zones. I will not set foot in them, no matter how many times I'm sent there. And, bloody hell, why are those security guards so damn important that I have to drop why I'm doing and go get a zone briefing? Gah! Why does the game have to keep wasting my time with this nonsense over and over and over again? I don't CARE!
Please, for the love of pie, let me just KILL those introduction missions. Give me an option to turn them off so that they will NEVER EVER EVER EVER show up for me EVER AGAIN! I know, already! I knew five years ago, and I haven't forgotten since you reminded me yesterday. Why can't these damn contacts be made to be introduced like everyone else? "Hey, I have this friend. You might want to help him." Why is that so wrong? Tell me about him, and if I want to help him, I'll go to him on my own.
And you know what the worst thing is? Because of how many missions the old contacts have, this woman still hasn't given me her phone number, so I'll have to fly back to her on the butt end of nowhere when I'm done with this. And I just KNOW she'll send me on some other pointless waste of time afterwards. Maybe I'll have to talk to the Terra Volta Security Chief, or I'll have to patrol Independence Port, or I'll have to go to the moon ON FOOT.
Ooh!