Caemgen's Commission Corner

Oh wow, that looks super nice. It also looks like they got the horns and nose right.

Thanks for the positive comments all, I really think that's s piece demanding to be made into a poster and going up on my wall

and even more art coming in... This latest piece is from one of my contests - 2 or 3... The team up one. Pyro suggested teaming up his Natris character with my Fenian. His suggested scene was one where they had been fighting and ended up in one of those awkward poses where things could easily turn drastically the other way...

while not one of the winners, I had decided to get art for all the finalists... Juggy did one already, Foo's done a couple and I went to Nojitsu on dA for the rest.. She usually just does standard pin up poses so these are going to be quite a challenge for it... But I like challenging artists .

Anyway, she did the one closest to her usual style first... It maybe looks a bit more like a straight make out session than intended but it's a great pic

Wow...

I am thoroughly impressed Caemgen.
Working backwords (for me)
I really like what Denby did with the poses mirroring each other and the details in that (for lack of a better word and not meaning bad in any way) rough style he does just shines in that DBA piece.

Nojitsu does great pinup and that pose is pretty hot... I do have some thoughts on a few small things that would drive the idea home though but they are just opinions and I do not wish to sound like I am taking anything away from her work (I'm totally a fan)... that reminds me I should probably ask if she has time for that art trade (I could work it into one of my 40).

The star of this crop though is that Caemgen piece.
Wow twice.
The first time I saw your avatar a picture of "how he should look" (and it's not even my hero lol) popped into my head... that piece is the closest I've seen to it.
The expression, the shape and position of the horns... even the nose is done right.

I'm equal parts happy, jealous and inspired to take another shot at drawing him.

There are some details I feel compelled to point out in case they are not apparent but I almost hate to do it. Ok Preamble: These are some of the best pieces I've seen so far from your commission list Caemgen and I do not wish my picking of nits to take anything away from that but hopefully some of the obsevations I've made in the past have helped and maybe these might as well.

You know those times when you look at a piece and there's something there but you don't know what... once you see it though it's totally obvious what the artist was doing/thinking... like finding an hidden Easter Egg on a website or a piece of art? I call that stuff the "Illusive Obvious."
Foo's piece VexXxing Trix is a great example I immediately saw the wings position relevant to each other suggest the shape of a heart... it's not sooo obvious that everyone see's it right away but once you see it you cannot "unsee it."

See the one stone pointing up at an angle who's shape and size and relevant position to the two headstones with rounded tops (one hanging lower than the other even) that have the artists names signed on them?
...yeah well, whether consciously or not, the artist of the Caemgen piece slipped a phallus in on your art.

By signing those particular "stones" rather than the one Cae is crouching on or the fog below or heck anywhere else it's like they're saying we are both "nuts."
The more I look at your Caemgen piece the more I think it has to be intentional... as accidents go that one would be pretty... wait for it... hard to come by. (double pun!)
There's other stuff I see but maybe I'll just stop there and quit while I'm ahead (bah dunh tisssh).

One --> Artz Giveaway <-- To Rule Them ALL!

I will settle this. ORANGE FTW! - Ex Libris

Re: nose and horns
yeah, due to CR's constant complaining I have taken a more proactive stance in getting these done correctly. The sketch CR did recently of the horns proper shape and position is now included in the details of any commision request and pointing out that the nose is lion like rather than human seems to help...

Re: phallus
hmmm, I can see it now that you pointed it out... But I don't think it's going to be one of those things that always leap out at me...

I am not convinced it was intentional and I don't think it ties in to where they signed the piece... First off, to me the testicles would best be the stones the phallus itsel is between, not the two the signed. Secondly, I certainly wouldn't put my signature on some nut. And lastly, in a pic like this I think the headstones are the natural place to sign... It puts your mark squarely in the pic without at all detracting from the piece...

All in all though, *shrug* - if the intentionally did it because they thought it was funny, I'm ok with that it's not a large part of the piece and, to me, not obvious enough to be distracting from the focus point. If they did it intentionally as some kind of dig at me... Again *shrug* who cares? The art is great.

Anyway, I think there's at least a 50/50 chance it wasn't intentional and that CR just has to much phallus on the brain

re: Nojitsu
there's definitely some minor adjustments that could be made to give it more an awkward moment in fight feel as opposed to a make out session... However, even this piece is a big departure from her normal work and as such I think she did great and didn't want to add to her anxiety on upcoming pieces by nitpicking when she's all done with these I may kindly point out a couple minor things but I want her to stretch her wings fully first before I go pointing out that her flight is slightly wobbly? (ehh really stretched that metaphor)

re: nitpicking
anyway, I am all in favor of nitpicking in this thread... It not only gives me things to watch out for in the future and the means to more successfully convey to artists what I want but hopefully it'll be food for thought for other artists and collectors...

Forgot...

Re: pose
yeah, I've always seen Cae in a crouch. My vision of him is of him being much like Nightcrawler in being very quick, very agile and very flexible. I see him very much always coiled and ready to spring into action... Always wary and on the lookout. Kind of like a cat, when they're not sleeping

re: art trade
get in line buddy! I have 4 more lined up to be done from that contest! . VexXxa & Caemgen, Lounge Crooner & Fenian, Calash & Alpha and TA & Alpha... I suspect the last two pairings may be the hardest for Nojitsu as they're totally not her style but so far she seems determined to take a stab at them

but really, I told her a bunch of times to take her time and if she wants a break from these for a fun art trade I have no problem with that and feel free to tell her I said so!

Your attention to detail never ceases to amaze me. Honestly, I hadn't even noticed the tail in the picture. To be fair to myself, I did get the pic right before I had to head off to bed and stayed up a tad to throw the pic up here... And since have been on my iPhone with a screen that isn't quite large enough to really examine art on... But still! I'll have to check out in the morning on a real monitor and see if that's something I wanna go back and see if I can get tweaked or not...

I'll also have to go back and check the pencils about that stream... Though if you noticed it on the pencils why you didn't mention it then????

On the Alpha pic - seriously? You recognize the brand of motherboard??? Insane. LoL... Anyway, Alpha is generally tech themed. First the bionic arm, leg and eye when he was injured (and fiancé killed) during a villian attack on a mall (and Crey mysteriously stepped in to provide the most advanced med care gratis) and then later with the tech armor supplied by Crey... So no specific circuit or mobo has significance but I think the background does hive the overall tech feel which is appropriate.

on the Nojitsu pic - I was meaning more post game advice for next time rather than having her change stuff... I am admittedly reluctant to ask for changes once past the sketch phase unless it's a glaring error which really does the character wrong or detracts from my enjoyment of the pic...

In this pic I don't see the left hands as missing. I see Fen's as being behind Nat's arm, blocked from view. Seems to me the arm angle is wrong for it to be holding the bicep... Seems perhaps trapped by the arm or against Nat's body to try to shove her off... Nat's left I would think is on the ground giving her supprt to be leaning up like that, no? I may be off though, this pic I have only seen on my iPhone...

Maybe I shouldn't ok art until I see it at home....

But to better fit the idea I think Fens right hand would have been better if it was scratching/clutching instead of just resting on Nats back or maybe be pressed against Nats left shoulder trying to hold/push her back...

I really do like how Fen is looking away from Nat though, either is disgust or consideration who knows?


Ah well, I seriously think I'll refrain from approving anything from the phone in the future. It is not an ideal viewer for detail. Sure, I am definitely a much more big picture or overall look kind of guy than a detail worrier (don't mean worrier in a bad way at all) but I should try to be a bit more observant about them...

Thanks. It's both a blessing and a curse sometimes... trust me.
Yeah it's not up on DA yet so I don't have the large version to see up close detail either but I've always just been good at noticing stuff like that. I try to only point out the stuff I see as really pertinent (hey the right hand doesn't match the left and such) and not the little things that are "open to interpretation".
Honestly I can and do greatly enjoy pieces with little inconsistencies (many times they can actually add to a piece and give it character) all the time but when it's a glaring mismatch I'm compelled to mention it. If it's a gift I try to be respectful of that and if it's someone still learning or doing practice then I always try to be encouraging and stress the good points about a piece first and foremost and try to keep the criticism constructive for the sake of improvement. These are professionally commissioned works though, many of the artists are not on the site and you are laying out a lot of $ and giving repeat business so I think it's ok to have them held to a bit higher standard. Also I usually ask in PM's if it's ok before hand because I know some people don't want to see the mistakes or have them pointed out (a strange thing when you post stuff up for the world to see but *shrug*) to them.

There are honestly a half dozen or so more things I could point out (the red cutouts in the left pants leg are 3x larger than in the right leg even taking into account that they are supposed to be on the outer leg {see how the red is on both sides of the left knee?}... the shoulder pads don't match in size, shape, thickness or curvature and have different patterns on their surfaces, his right gauntlet has a double ringed oval shaped "sun" on it while his left gauntlet has a single ringed circular "sun" pattern etc etc) but at some point it (to me) goes past the point of being helpful... hard to tell where the line is sometimes.

@ the Caemgen pic: Well since you mentioned that was not the final draft and you were going to make changes I didn't really look the background over much, also in the pencils it's light gray against white and not really noticeable... it's the colors (black against light gray stone) that are making it so obvious.
... and had I noticed and pointed it out, what exactly can you say to an artist at that point anyway? "... love the piece go ahead and start the coloring but hey any chance we can remove the dick shaped headstone that's spooging in the background?"

I would probably "correct" it myself after the fact but before I posted it if I were in your shoes (ya I know that ship has already sailed).
Never happened before so I don't know what else to say really.

@ the Alpha pic: lol yeah.
@ the Noj pic: Oh ok I misunderstood ya then... Nojitsu is actually pretty open to fixing stuff as I recall but if you meant for future pieces, that is fine too.

As for the pose: If Fen's hand were pinned against her body we would see her fingers where the buckles are. If it were pushing against Nat's body it would be against her breast and we would see evidence of the push but Nats breast is resting on Fens body... going off the basic rule of thumb that your forearm is about as long as your foot from heel to toe then Fen's hand should be occupying the same space as Nat's bicep which is only possible if her hand is flexed hard upwards (in a "stop" gesture) or if Nats bicep were resting on her palm in which case the natural instinct would be to grab it as if you are the person on the bottom in a struggle you want to control the limbs of the person in the top position. Think about any female mat wrestling or heck even the last time you saw a chick fight... they always grab at the arms and pull the hair (unless hairpulling is forbidden in the rules and even then sometimes they do anyway on instinct).

As for Nat's left hand being missing look at her right arm. See how far the elbow is from the ground? Now look at how long Nat's forearm is. That means her arm on the far side if she were resting on her hand would have to be the length of that forearm "more raised" than the arm on the nearside which is not possible since we can just barely see the far side of her back (the little space between the spine line and the farside line) and she is clearly resting her torso on Fen's chest (T on T if you will ) that means her arm is also bent at the elbow and "floating."
On the near side Fen's hand is/should be holding it up but on the far side there is nothing to hold it as Fen's hand is on her back and it's not on Fen's other shoulder like the near hand is. Who lies on top of some one and lifts both their hands and elbows off the ground during a tussle? Her farside arm can be extending off into the background palm flat on the ground or the hand should be showing near the cape or she needs to be grabbing onto something for support and in a chick fight hair is the logical choice. I'd redline it for you if I had more digital skill (...and Suichiro's patience... ).

It's a great picture as it stands though and what really makes it work for me is their expressions and positioning... Nojitsu has a great style and I can see why you've commissioned her for so many pieces... I love what she did with Shieldara... might have to arrange a fight scene like this too sometime next year when she finishes all of your comms.

One --> Artz Giveaway <-- To Rule Them ALL!

I will settle this. ORANGE FTW! - Ex Libris

@phallus - Ya know the lttle mad smiley was meant for amusements sake, right? But if you had pointed it out at that stage I'd have had no problem saying exactly what you said though I probably would have been more diplomatic and said something like "Could we delete or move that pointy monument between the two headstones there on the left? Those with dirty minds might think it's some kind of ***** joke!"

but honestly, I can see what you mean totally but I still don't see ***** when I look at the pic... I will check out on bigger screen when home though... And since I did decide to pipe up about the tail color, if that bugs me on a bigger screen I just may ask to have that pointed one removed...

@Nojitsu - I'll have to read through those comments again at home. I'm sure you know what your taping about but even though I can zoom in on this thing to look at details I think I often don't connect details with overall pic when doing so...

@Caemgen nitpics - I did notice the shoulder pads and gloves patterns. I'm ok with them though. Hell, they even kind of work with the character... He's a loner and likely carved the designs himself... And nobody said he had talent concept even works for the pants... In some crappy little stories I wrote for him he mentioned the difficulty in getting shirts that fit over his wings, what with the tail and all I could see him making his own pants as well... Cae's not big on social interaction and wouldn't be caught dead in Icon getting fitted for clothes...

@pointing out mistakes - I can see why some purchasers wouldn't want it - why have your awesome piece torn up and become less awesome in your eyes? After all, if you don't see the flaw is it one? Personally though, I don't think I have seen a flawless piece so having other ones pointed out doesn't ruin it for me... And even after seeing them I tend not to get hung up on them and allow it to ruin the piece for me... But I get that there are those who once seeing something cannot unsee it so ya, why would they want it highlighted for them? Me, I get a hole in my shirt and at worst it becomes something I wear just around the house, others get it fixed, still others believe it ruined and throw it out. *shrug*

oops, actually some work for me to do now!!!!

Yeah I know the "mad" was just poking fun haha... and you're right that way sounds way more diplomatic than mine did.

It's a small enough thing to have the color changed but if they have no time I (or many others here) can do it for you easily enough.

@Nojitsu's piece: yeah it's easier for me with dual monitors to look at a pic on the big screen and to type a response on the "not quite as big" screen.

@Caemgen: Yeah that's totally what I was saying with the "can add character to the piece" if the detail you notice works with the backstory (like not being caught dead in an Icon and therefore making his own armor) then it's all good.

@pointing out: Yeah that's why I try and ask first (and repeatedly) if it's ok in PM's and such. While it's a different view than what I take I understand and can respect it.


P.S. If I get a hole in my shirt I'm like "oh hey cool a new sweat top for @home workouts."

Lol your at work reading all this? Nice job.

One --> Artz Giveaway <-- To Rule Them ALL!

I will settle this. ORANGE FTW! - Ex Libris

I'm amazed at the talent the members of this forum have, and the quality of all the pieces in general. This is quite a collection to be proud of, Caemgen.

Thanks! And I am.

Just to be clear though: while we have many amazingly talented artists who contribute regularly in this forum, not all the art in these pages is from them. I hope to get more from the locals when I can though

Final version...

I did have Andro recolor the tail... Also decided to have him remove CR's *****

$10 Quick Commission done by John Becaro http://johnbecaro.deviantart.com/

I really like his work on the face and love the detail on the gloves, boots and shoulder pads... Not totally sure where the green came from though.

Admit it, green is a good alt-color on him.

I've actually toyed with a green version of him... But skin tone, not clothes

The green was glaring when I first saw it... Probably because it was totally unexpected. I'm growing more used to it the more I see it... Not positive liking it more but... Hmmm.

Maybe it came from the picture of him I did? dunno if you are still using that as a referance for the knotwork but there is a greenish tone to it in that (because there is a greenish tone everywhere :P) *shrug*