Force Feedback: Chance for Recharge+ Question
By
brophog02,
Posted on: 2009-10-11 15:11 in The Market and Inventions
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procs only activate against the power being used.|
Originally Posted by Von Krieger
I have one, and I'm thinking of tossing it into Shockwave, which hits multiple targets. Does it get a roll with every cr4itter that is hit, or just the one from activating the power?
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So no, if you smack a full mob with Shockwave, that doesn't increase your chances of the proc going off.
Really? I could've sworn I get, on occassion, more than one heal out of the proc in Blind and the +End proc in Panacea.
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Originally Posted by reiella
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right
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Not what I meant.|
Originally Posted by Von Krieger
Really? I could've sworn I get, on occassion, more than one heal out of the proc in Blind and the +End proc in Panacea.
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The Proc can activate against multiple opponents.
However, the Proc's chance to activate is generally determined by how many times the power is clicked on with your mouse.
There are certain cases where Procs can be slotted into toggles, such as the Ghost Widow Psi Damage Hold Proc that can go into a rad's Choking Cloud, or the Slow Chance for Smashing Damage that can go in a Storm's Snow Storm. In these cases, there is a flat timer that the proc has a chance of activating against.
The Proc activation It is not affected by how many targets the power itself can target..
Ergo, if you're a rad with the GW Damage proc in Choking cloud, sitting in a Mob of 16 isn't going to do anything to improve the chances that the proc will activate and damage surrounding enemies.
In the same way, yes, you can put the proc into Shockwave, and yes, if it activates, it can hurt everything targeted by Shockwave. However, the number of targets it can hit will have no impact on whether or not the proc activates.
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Sorry, but you are wrong when it comes to targeted powers like the OP mentioned. Procs in attack powers make a check against every opponent in range. This is obvious if you ever use a damage proc in an AOE power. Sometimes one enemy will get hit with the extra damage, sometimes several will be, as the proc chance is calculated for each enemy. This is one reason the Theft of Essence +end proc is so valuable for Dark Armor's heal. When surrounded by enemies, using Dark Regen can provide endurance from multiple enemies in range of the heal.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Not what I meant.
The Proc can activate against multiple opponents. However, the Proc's chance to activate is generally determined by how many times the power is clicked on with your mouse. There are certain cases where Procs can be slotted into toggles, such as the Ghost Widow Psi Damage Hold Proc that can go into a rad's Choking Cloud, or the Slow Chance for Smashing Damage that can go in a Storm's Snow Storm. In these cases, there is a flat timer that the proc has a chance of activating against. The Proc activation It is not affected by how many targets the power itself can target.. Ergo, if you're a rad with the GW Damage proc in Choking cloud, sitting in a Mob of 16 isn't going to do anything to improve the chances that the proc will activate and damage surrounding enemies. In the same way, yes, you can put the proc into Shockwave, and yes, if it activates, it can hurt everything targeted by Shockwave. However, the number of targets it can hit will have no impact on whether or not the proc activates. |
Bottom line: The Force Feedback proc checks against every enemy in range of the AOE up to the target cap for whatever attack it is slotted in.
The proc he is referring to is a self buff to recharge, not an effect on the enemy.
The proc has a chance per enemy of firing, so yes, the more enemies you hit with shockwave, the more likely you are to receive the buff from force feedback.
This proc is a very solid choice in aoe knockdown and knockback powers that you use as a regular part of your attack chain. If you only use shockwave periodically, even if the proc goes off every time, it might not be very noticeable.
Further information on procs can be found here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=120808
Specifically:
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What happens when multiple enemies are hit by a proc? The proc is calculated separately for each enemy. This means if you hit 10 enemies with say, Buckshot, then on average two enemies will be effected by the proc. |
Thanks. That was what I wanted to know.
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Originally Posted by reiella
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right
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Force Feedback is a special proc. It was nerfed pretty hard by the devs. It's effects supress now.|
Originally Posted by Von Krieger
I have one, and I'm thinking of tossing it into Shockwave, which hits multiple targets. Does it get a roll with every cr4itter that is hit, or just the one from activating the power?
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For info see.....
Force Feedback Proc
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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I thought there was information that the proc had changed yet again, and that the suppression was no longer the issue it used to be. Anyone know for sure how the suppression functions now?
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Force Feedback is a special proc. It was nerfed pretty hard by the devs. It's effects supress now.
For info see..... Force Feedback Proc |
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I'm not 100% sure I'm contradicting you here, but I think you're saying this somewhat strangely.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Ergo, if you're a rad with the GW Damage proc in Choking cloud, sitting in a Mob of 16 isn't going to do anything to improve the chances that the proc will activate and damage surrounding enemies.
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If you turn on CC in a spawn of 16 critters, the proc will check its activation chance against all 16 immediately. Then it will do so again 10 seconds later, and every 10 seconds thereafter.
This is, in fact, counts as 16 separate checks for the proc to activate.
If the proc were one that affects you, it would have 16 separate chances to affect you. This is exactly what happens with the Touch of the Nictus: Chance for +Endurace proc when slotted in Dark Regeneration. If you hit 5 foes with that power, for one click of the mouse you have 5 separate chances to gain +20 endurance all right then.
The Force Feedback proc works in this way, but the self recharge boost does not stack. If you hit 5 foes with power that proc is slotted in, you get 5 chances to apply the self +recharge. However, even if it happens to apply more than once, you only get the benefit of one activation. More foes just make it more likely to occur.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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As far as I know, it works like it did before, and all that has changed is the base probability of activation.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
I thought there was information that the proc had changed yet again, and that the suppression was no longer the issue it used to be. Anyone know for sure how the suppression functions now?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
The way it worked before: 100% proc chance, 5 second duration, 10 second suppression.
The way it works now: Exactly as the description reads, no suppression.
Would it be a good idea for an Energy Blaster to slot this proc in almost, if not all, all the attacks? You would then almost have the recharge bonus active all the time. And more importanlty, if it comes from different powers, can several +100% recharge stack together?
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Are you going to sell/buy it?
If not...how is this a market question?
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This is the "The Market & Inventions" board now. The two old boards were merged for the new Forums.
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Originally Posted by SlimPickens
Are you going to sell/buy it?
If not...how is this a market question? |
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
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I've done this.|
Originally Posted by Photonstorm
Would it be a good idea for an Energy Blaster to slot this proc in almost, if not all, all the attacks? You would then almost have the recharge bonus active all the time. And more importanlty, if it comes from different powers, can several +100% recharge stack together?
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Not a good idea. With the suppresion you just wind up wasting slots (it not only doesn't stack, but it suppresses immediately after firing). Put it in something like Explosive Blast and put something else in the other powers instead.
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I have it slotted in my eng/elec's Power blast, Power bolt, and ET, and I'm very happy with the results. I get it to proc fairly often within my attack chain, which allows me to chain power blast and power bolt, and power burst with no interruption (except for when hasten goes down and the proc doesn't go off)
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Originally Posted by Photonstorm
Would it be a good idea for an Energy Blaster to slot this proc in almost, if not all, all the attacks? You would then almost have the recharge bonus active all the time. And more importanlty, if it comes from different powers, can several +100% recharge stack together?
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No, it will not stack no matter what powers it activates from.
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Originally Posted by Photonstorm
Would it be a good idea for an Energy Blaster to slot this proc in almost, if not all, all the attacks? You would then almost have the recharge bonus active all the time. And more importanlty, if it comes from different powers, can several +100% recharge stack together?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Even after the nerf it is still a great proc. I personally love putting it into any AoE kb power. I wouldn't suggest putting it into every single energy power since it cannot stack. I think you would have better overall recharge by just slotting a generic recharge IO
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As I recall, someone here did the math on it, and it comes out to an average of less than 5% global recharge with an optimum attack chain. Non-optimum attack chain or not attacking continually gives less of a bonus. Most of the player base knows this, that's why its nearly junk at WW.
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Originally Posted by DaveMebs
Even after the nerf it is still a great proc. I personally love putting it into any AoE kb power. I wouldn't suggest putting it into every single energy power since it cannot stack. I think you would have better overall recharge by just slotting a generic recharge IO
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-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Not worth slotting in Shockwave then eh? Better off finishing a decent set for a good bonus?
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
As I recall, someone here did the math on it, and it comes out to an average of less than 5% global recharge with an optimum attack chain. Non-optimum attack chain or not attacking continually gives less of a bonus. Most of the player base knows this, that's why its nearly junk at WW.
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Given the cost of LOTG, if this is counted as junk in the markets, with a price reflecting that junk status then it could be well worthwhile. I mean even at 5% it's 2/3 of a LotG at, what you are saying would be a fraction of the price.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
As I recall, someone here did the math on it, and it comes out to an average of less than 5% global recharge with an optimum attack chain. Non-optimum attack chain or not attacking continually gives less of a bonus. Most of the player base knows this, that's why its nearly junk at WW.
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It's an average of 5ish% if you are using it in an AoE AND if you are continuously attacking AND if you have an optimized attack chain AND if you are hitting no less than the optimal number of apropriately conning mobs.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax
Given the cost of LOTG, if this is counted as junk in the markets, with a price reflecting that junk status then it could be well worthwhile. I mean even at 5% it's 2/3 of a LotG at, what you are saying would be a fraction of the price.
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I have an energy blaster that has one in Explosive Blast I ran a few tests of my own with it and soloing normally for that blaster who has the power optimized I averaged 3.67% increased recharge.
My Arch/Dev has it in Explosive Arrow and does not have it optimized. He gets .42%. (He doesn't use Explosive often. Time bomb + RoA on spawn 1, LRM + RoA on spawn 2, Trip Mine + RoA + Fistfull + Explosive on spawn 3)
My FF/Dark's secondary build has 3 full sets slotted mainly for the set bonuses. 2 are in AoE powers (Repulsion Bomb and Torrent), 1 is in Force Bolt. None of those powers are optimized as doing so would have dropped me below the soft cap on defense. That toon averages 2.78%
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
For what it's worth, I have one in hurricane. Since I have to be in melee-range for hurricane, and I maintain where I stick and keep mobs, it fires off quite nicely for me.
I personally don't care for it/think it's worth while in any click-based power.
I've already forgotten about most of you
I have one, and I'm thinking of tossing it into Shockwave, which hits multiple targets. Does it get a roll with every cr4itter that is hit, or just the one from activating the power?