Er why?
I mean, why take it from night widows, and why give it to banes?
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I'd rather see one of:|
Originally Posted by EquYnoX
Take it from NW and give them (NW) a damage Aura (WoC maybe?)
just an Idea. |
1) more direct mitigation (def, res, health)
2) faster recharging Placate
3) more debuffing in powers
than a "t9" power that doesn't even conceptually fit.
Oh, and you'll be prying Elude from my Night Widow's arsenal over my dead body. Especially not for a freaking damage aura. You've got to be kidding.
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I think I blew a cerebral coil trying to get my head around that one.
Banes are fine as they are, really...slightly nastier and more shooty stalkers, with, y'know, armour. And big hitting sticks. They don't need elude.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yes...yes...and yes. |
Originally Posted by Failsight
I'd rather see one of:
1) more direct mitigation (def, res, health) 2) faster recharging Placate 3) more debuffing in powers than a "t9" power that doesn't even conceptually fit. Oh, and you'll be prying Elude from my Night Widow's arsenal over my dead body. Especially not for a freaking damage aura. You've got to be kidding. |
A faster recharging placate on a Bane would be very nice to see. I am bummed that Banes don't seem to have a true Tier 9 type power...
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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I'm not too chuffed by this. The way I see it, they don't have a Big Bad Tier 9 because their earlier tier powers are slightly superior. So the *I win* is spread out among the other powers into smaller helping of *I'm winning*, *Still winning*, *Why the heck are you even trying?*, and *Say Good Night Gracie!*.|
Originally Posted by RiverOcean
Yes...yes...and yes.
A faster recharging placate on a Bane would be very nice to see. I am bummed that Banes don't seem to have a true Tier 9 type power... |
I didn't really understand the power structure for Banes very well until I'd gotten up into the high 30's and early 40's. Actually needed a respec bad at that point because it was necesary. After rebuilding him, even on standard IOs, he was a friggin' monster.
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I hate saying negative things about peoples posts, but this is just plain stupid.
Why add a power that Banes have NEVER used in the history of the game?
Besides what exactly is wrong with Banes? I have teamed with some nasty Banes.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
I'm pretty sure I have never seen one use surveillance ,summon two arachnos disruptors or stab with bayonet.
Yes I agree that bane survivability should be improved giving them -def resistance for starters. I'd also give them self heal as a panic power which every defense set seems to have, excluding banes.
However I don't really understand why buffing one archetype should be done at an expense of another.
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That's because, strictly speaking, the Bane pool isn't merely a defense set...
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Originally Posted by Gaspard
I'd also give them self heal as a panic power which every defense set seems to have, excluding banes.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
But defense is what banes mainly have going for themselves, plus marginal resistance. That is if one doesn't sacrifice endurance to run pools available for everyone.
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You get the heck off surveilance! You'll pry that away from Banes over my my cold, dead, mechanical form!
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Originally Posted by Gaspard
I'm pretty sure I have never seen one use surveillance ,summon two arachnos disruptors or stab with bayonet.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Nope, too late. Already decided, banes will lose all these powers. They don't have them as NPCs so they shouldn't have them as playable characters. It doesn't fit the lore! |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
You get the heck off surveilance! You'll pry that away from Banes over my my cold, dead, mechanical form!
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To be honest, I was just making fun of the logic that "because bane npcs don't do it, bane players shouldn't be able to do it either". So yes, it's a jest.
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So SR has self heal now? I also wouldn't call EA's heal a heal, especially since using it means you are going to be attacked even more.
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Originally Posted by Gaspard
I'd also give them self heal as a panic power which every defense set seems to have, excluding banes.
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Dirges
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Night Widows, Fortunatas, SR, Shield Defense, are all defense sets that don't have heals so Banes are hardly the only class without one. Also Energy Aura's heal isn't really all that much of a heal to be honest.
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Originally Posted by Gaspard
Yes I agree that bane survivability should be improved giving them -def resistance for starters. I'd also give them self heal as a panic power which every defense set seems to have, excluding banes.
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"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
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But it has elude which is sort of a panic power.|
Originally Posted by Dirges
So SR has self heal now? I also wouldn't call EA's heal a heal, especially since using it means you are going to be attacked even more.
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By panic power I mean a power that could be activated once in a tight situation, ie. self heal or elude if you want to think like that.
I wasn't saying that the sets have self heal, I was saying that almost all of them come with some sort of panic power. Something to use when the defense fails, and it will.
Elude really isn't that much of a panic power to be honest. Sets like SR, Ninjitsu, Night Widow Training, etc don't need Elude/Retsu because you can cap your positional defense without them. The only thing that powers like Elude/Retsu offer are increased movement speed and recovery, otherwise they do nothing.
The devs won't change Banes because it doesn't fit with their history. They aren't broken so there is no need to fix or add anything.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
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Yes, yes. With less effort than banes. They also get -def resistance. |
Originally Posted by Novella
Elude really isn't that much of a panic power to be honest. Sets like SR, Ninjitsu, Night Widow Training, etc don't need Elude/Retsu because you can cap your positional defense without them. The only thing that powers like Elude/Retsu offer are increased movement speed and recovery, otherwise they do nothing.
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How about the bane spider secondary, or without third pools? Just had to mention widows there.
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Originally Posted by Novella
The devs won't change Banes because it doesn't fit with their history. They aren't broken so there is no need to fix or add anything.
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That's right, banes are not broken, but there's still room for improvement. Things don't have to be OP or broken, there's more to it than that.
Where's the lrn2play argument? I'm waiting.
Just look at Kheldian history.
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l2p, lolz
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Although Banes are considered to be weakest of the 4 SoA, I don't think they need much buffing. If you remove every other SoA, leaving only Banes, and then comparing them to the existing ATs, they don't look that weak at all. Force + force multiplication rolled in one makes a Bane a versatile character fit for many situations.
That being said, I do think there is room for improvement for Banes. The 2s animation, small radius, fast recharge and laughable damage AoE blasts need an overhaul. In general the animation times are long, long, looooong. And all look the same, as well. They couldn't bother doing any other animations for the Mace other than the "lean forward, twoop" type, which is present in every pew pew Banes have.
Not to mention the redraw thing for Surveillance and Venom Grenade. The latter especially breaks the character, but it's too damn good of a power to pass up.
I think the only thing that Banes need are a animation tweaking, and the maces blasts really need to be looked at. I think the blasts are a cool concept, but they are really lackluster.
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I'm not saying Banes do not need improvement, however I am saying that there is nothing wrong with there survivability that would indicate that Elude would be needed or should be added.
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Originally Posted by Gaspard
Yes, yes. With less effort than banes. They also get -def resistance.
How about the bane spider secondary, or without third pools? Just had to mention widows there. Devs? You got a quote or you just talking for yourself? That's right, banes are not broken, but there's still room for improvement. Things don't have to be OP or broken, there's more to it than that. Where's the lrn2play argument? I'm waiting. |
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Speed up Placate's recharge, boost defense debuff protection, and figure out a way to lessen the "Redraw Hell".
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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Yeah, I agree with you there mate. |
Originally Posted by Ethric
If you remove every other SoA, leaving only Banes, and then comparing them to the existing ATs, they don't look that weak at all. |
Pretend you get to pick a free car from Audi S4, Mercedes-Benz CLS and Datsun Sunny. But then suddenly the other two get taken away and you are left with the Datsun. At that point it looks rather ok for a free car, I guess.
The situation may not look like ****, but it sure smells like it.
Ok, ok. I´m getting distracted again, sorry.
But yeah, I agree banes need some work with the animation times and the redraw hell. Surveillance shouldn´t put away your weapons. Also the situation is more awkward for gunbanes. It´s no lie, I got normal bane build and a gunbane and I´m not a huge fan of the constant redraw.
Also the blasts are bit weak, excluding poison ray.
But about the survivability. I´m not too convinced with the current situation when looking at the other VEATs. Banes shouldn´t have to take bunch of pools to beef themselves up at the exchange of endurance. That´s a one thing.
The other is when you actually beef yourself up and receive a blow through soft cap. Banes do not have anything to get ahead of this.
But then again, that´s how I feel.
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If I fixed anything with Banes, it would be this. There's enough other complaints with redraw (Spines too, I think) that I think it would be worth it to ask Paragon Studios to look into improving their tech so BaBs can fix this. Right now he basically can't.|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
figure out a way to lessen the "Redraw Hell".
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My free weekend ends today, so someone else will have to propose this. (I might be back for Going Rogue.) Good luck and I hope you can get something upgraded here.
Not having to redraw would be a big improvement. Not to mention I would love to see one of the ranged AoEs swapped out for Whirling Mace. The enemy banes use it and it never made much sense to me for a mostly melee AT to have 2 ranged AoEs.
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
Take it from NW and give them (NW) a damage Aura (WoC maybe?)
just an Idea.