I would love to see Banes get Serum and Whirling Mace, and happily lose a ranged attack or two. That would even things out nicely.
The animation changes put forth by Frosticus would get my whole-hearted approval as well.
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I'd trade ranged defense in [Combat Training: Defensive] for melee defense in a heartbeat.
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Originally Posted by Ethric
l2p, lolz
... Although Banes are considered to be weakest of the 4 SoA, I don't think they need much buffing. If you remove every other SoA, leaving only Banes, and then comparing them to the existing ATs, they don't look that weak at all. Force + force multiplication rolled in one makes a Bane a versatile character fit for many situations. That being said, I do think there is room for improvement for Banes. The 2s animation, small radius, fast recharge and laughable damage AoE blasts need an overhaul. In general the animation times are long, long, looooong. And all look the same, as well. They couldn't bother doing any other animations for the Mace other than the "lean forward, twoop" type, which is present in every pew pew Banes have. Not to mention the redraw thing for Surveillance and Venom Grenade. The latter especially breaks the character, but it's too damn good of a power to pass up. |
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They should get a Strength of Will type of tier 9 power. They dont need webnade in the power set and in the epic. Drop one of the webnades and replace it with a Resist Tier 9 power or if they want a defense tier 9 power then give them a Shadow Meld type power that recharges fast but drops even faster.|
Originally Posted by EquYnoX
Take it from NW and give them (NW) a damage Aura (WoC maybe?)
just an Idea. |
P.S. I am a PvPer and I am seeing this from a PvPers point of view.
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Originally Posted by SaintTzu
I would love to see Banes get Serum and Whirling Mace, and happily lose a ranged attack or two. That would even things out nicely.
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Me too.
I'd do anything to get Whirling Mace. Serum would be nice, with the Banes so-so defense on top of the +hp and resistance, they would be rather survivable.
As much as I think Banes are awesome. WoC on a night widow would be pretty sweet, maybe if we send them enough emails they'll stick it in an epic somewhere.
- Powers aren't taken away from archetypes that are live. It hasn't happened in living memory.
- Powers aren't swapped between archetypes that are live. It hasn't happened in living memory.
- Banes are not conceptually super-dodgy.
- A level 38 power that's not regularly up is of little assistance to an archetype with problems.
- Widows only have Elude because there are SO-built widows out there.
- If Widows get a damage aura, you might as well give them Recovery Aura, because that's about all they'll have left that they lack.
- Who are you people and where is my horse?
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Then just add it to the existing pools (they did it with patron/epic pools), or in the case of Whirling Mace make it an exclusive power that if you take it, the ranged AoEs or only 1 is locked out. Similar to how widows can't get follow up and build up. |
Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
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It's not as though the Veat pools are set up against other pools to balance against.
Though I don't think Elude is good for Banes. Make the +hp enhanced by slotting and give them better Melee Def.
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
Oh but I have to agree with Talen that a damage aura is a bad idea for widows. Damage auras on a stealth class with Crits is counter-productive.
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
They're not super-invincible. So? They're not meant to be, conceptually or balance-wise.
Banes aren't Stalkers. Stalkers are the flashy cartoon-ninja; the guy who jumps out of nowhere and then fights everything to a standstill without being hit, then disappears into the darkness.
Banes are the shock trooper, the saboteur. They're tough, but not drastically so, because they don't need to be. Their power comes from being able to unleash such furious devastation that the enemy is kept completely off-balance and can't do much about it. So long as they keep up the momentum, they are death incarnate. But if they slow, if they allow themselves to become bogged down, they can be isolated and eliminated with ease.
Changing this would be bad. Right now, it's a unique style of play, and also happens to reasonably closely match the Bane Spider NPCs in fighting style. What could you change it to that wouldn't make it derivative of another AT?
So you're saying that Banes do less damage than stalkers, and are less tough than stalkers, and this is their selling point?
No, that's what you're saying. I think it's pretty obvious what I'm saying up there.
You think that, but you're wrong. Please expound. Where is this 'momentum'? Where is this 'death incarnate'? What mechanic represents the death that falls upon the bane spider - an archetype with a number of combat-impacting long-recharge powers - when they 'slow down' and get 'bogged down.'
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This is all they need.|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Speed up Placate's recharge, boost defense debuff protection, and figure out a way to lessen the "Redraw Hell".
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No additional powers imo (no heals, no tier 9 god modes), just changes to existing powers. Some large (bring back closed i12 beta 20s recharge placate!), some small (grant cloaking device 15% def debuff res), and some challenging (shorten the "Draw from back" animation and allow Venom grenade and Surveillance to be fired from the mace).
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According to BaBs, redraw will be addressed in some near or not too distant future|
Originally Posted by Akuma_Mishima
...and some challenging (shorten the "Draw from back" animation and allow Venom grenade and Surveillance to be fired from the mace).
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<raises hand>|
Originally Posted by Gaspard
I'm pretty sure I have never seen one use surveillance ,summon two arachnos disruptors or stab with bayonet.
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My huntsman build uses both surveillance and disruptors.
Didn't take bayonet, because the bane melee powers are more practical IMO.
[Also, with regard to the topic, bayonet's not a "bane" power anyway.]
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Placate should also have a rifle animation (if it doesn't, I haven't checked) so it does not cause redraw when used while rifle blasting as not all applications of placate are offensively oriented.
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Originally Posted by NordBlast
I'd trade ranged defense in [Combat Training: Defensive] for melee defense in a heartbeat.
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CT: Def for +range, BT: Def for +melee.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
I would like Whirling Mace on them. Thats about it, really.
I don't know where people are getting all these problems from, unless they are trying for 1337 purpled PvP builds. My Bane is lvl 31, SO'd (barely, my gun bane build with only rifle attacks is practically non-slotted), and he STILL does fine. Banes aren't as stealthy as a stalker, and make up for it with a tonking great hitting stick. Which can do horrible, horrible ammounts of damage, DoT and ranged attacks.
Elude? Ew, no thanks.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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The core problem I have is that, looking at a bane in comparison to a stalker, the stalker tends to come out of it with better ST damage, and almost as good AOE. It leaves me feeling like the Bane needs just a shade more of an edge.
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Great, I was refering to the NPC's.
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Originally Posted by HacknSlash
<raises hand>
My huntsman build uses both surveillance and disruptors. Didn't take bayonet, because the bane melee powers are more practical IMO. [Also, with regard to the topic, bayonet's not a "bane" power anyway. |
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Well thank god! Hopefully they don't start slotting IO's, either. |
Originally Posted by Gaspard
Great, I was refering to the NPC's.
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If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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Eh? |
Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
The core problem I have is that, looking at a bane in comparison to a stalker, the stalker tends to come out of it with better ST damage, and almost as good AOE. It leaves me feeling like the Bane needs just a shade more of an edge.
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The bane can pick up to five damaging aoe's, if it wants to.
It also has a "can fight at range" advantage.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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Bad AOEs is not the same as good AOEs, though.
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Originally Posted by HacknSlash
Eh?
The bane can pick up to five damaging aoe's, if it wants to. It also has a "can fight at range" advantage. |
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Fold Space would like a word with you.
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Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Living memory. I didn't say it'd never happened. But your expertly picked nit of a single power in a powerset that still needs help that I've commented on at length is well-observed. What was that, five years ago? Almost six?
didn't the change to Fold Space -> Singularity happen during beta?
Wide area web
Venom
and Frag grenade should all be left hand throws (ie a grenade) that do not eminate from the weapon and they should have an animation set for the rifle and a seperate one for the mace so that they do not cause redraw.
Surveilence should be like a taunt animation and not cause redraw either.
Placate should also have a rifle animation (if it doesn't, I haven't checked) so it does not cause redraw when used while rifle blasting as not all applications of placate are offensively oriented.
That would make banes and bane variations play a lot smoother.
Aside from that banes have so much bloody offensive capabilities if built for it that more survivability is not something I personally feel is warranted. Just how much offense? I hope to show that eventually, but it is beyond amazing and safely in the ridiculous category where only a few other builds hang out.
That said, in a pony filled world I'd replace web cocoon with a self heal or dull pain before adding elude.