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Nothing in this game is rocket science. But evasion is one of the biggest skills a player had. You could easily tell a good player from a bad one, by watching how they evaded a spike...or died from it. Now all the skill has been taken away. You either phase/hibernate, or you simply die. There is zero alternative.|
Originally Posted by GOTerpsPvP
Are some folks better at evasion than others? Sure. Definitely. It's still not rocket science, c'mon.
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Even you can probably admit that evading by running away takes more skill than clicking hibernate. Your argument doesn't really make much sense, since you seem against both phase and evasion. And the two are completely related. It's because there's no evasion that we have every single player in PvP with phase. It's because there WAS evasion before that we DIDN'T have every single player with phase before. Pick a side please. You can't be against everything. Unless you really are a pure fight clubber than thinks every fight should happen in a 5 square foot space with no moving.
I love fighting toons who have hiber....Timing HT perfectly as they hit hiber is a thing of beauty...When they leave hiber they are ripe for scourging.
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I’m not against evasion. I just laugh when people talk about evasion as some great skill.| you seem against both phase and evasion. And the two are completely related. |
I’m not against phase shift. I just thought a counter to the power should have been made available years before it finally was. The ability of a phased player to attack another phased player was a great change, but I’m sure it upset some folks who were accustomed to phase being their “get out of jail” free card. With the change to phase, I think phase is finally working the way it should have been all along.
You said in one of your posts that for a stalker Hibernate is basically an automatic free getaway. Granted there are exceptions to the rule, but for the most part that is true. I like the idea to make it interruptible, about the same as “Heal Self” from the medicine pool. With that type of change, the power could still be used in battle but it wouldn’t be as automatic as it is now. That’d be a good change even if it causes someone’s leet evasion skill score to go down a few points.
Also, making Hibernate interruptible makes using it in battle more skillful, no? So, if you want to separate players based on their skill at using Hibernate, why not make it slightly more difficult to use in battle?
You want evasion to be skillful and I want evasion to be skillful but we seem to disagree on the skill involved in using hibernate as a form of evasion...but we kinda agree on that too...
I'm dreadfully allergic to serious idiocy and stupidity. Right now, I'm sneezing so bad I had to bring my wi-fi keyboard into another room to type.
Yes, Please, Let us continue to nerf bad powers. For the love of all, stop complaining about slightly broken and inadequate things when there are 7 psy blasters 3 rad blasters and an archery blaster in RV.
O O and how about the fact that sharks are the only reason some people have stalkers? The fact that I can stand still in front of a stalker I can see and he hits sharks instead of AS?
Or maybe the fact that movement slows are neutered beyond comprehension?
But no, god save us if we must continue on with a power that is balanced in quite a few regards.
<3 Epsilon
(I hate Mondays and Concrete, I hate gnomes aswell, but to a lesser degree.)
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Why are you being stupid?
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Originally Posted by GOTerpsPvP
Also, making Hibernate interruptible makes using it in battle more skillful, no? So, if you want to separate players based on their skill at using Hibernate, why not make it slightly more difficult to use in battle?
You want evasion to be skillful and I want evasion to be skillful but we seem to disagree on the skill involved in using hibernate as a form of evasion...but we kinda agree on that too... |
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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No, it couldn't. The situations where Hibernate would be needed most are the kind of situations where you wouldn't even be able to activate it. Hibernate's fine as-is - if you can't get a kill on someone the 3/4 of the time Hibernate or Phase isn't up, you're either doing something wrong or they're good at staying alive.
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Originally Posted by GOTerpsPvP
With that type of change, the power could still be used in battle but it wouldnt be as automatic as it is now.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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I'm not trying to fix pvp in this thread, just throwing in my two cents on the hibernate power. (you're right that "throwing sharks" for stalkers is also stupid)| <3 Epsilon |
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| - if you can't get a kill on someone the 3/4 of the time Hibernate or Phase isn't up, you're either doing something wrong or they're good at staying alive. |
Oh well, whatever. People supporting hibernate admit that it's "broken" and an "automatic" escape, but get all buthurt at the mear mention of making a change to the power. Hilarious. Deep breaths guys.
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You missed the part where folks explained the thing you can do while they hibernoob, or the fact that they CAN DO JACK SHITE while in it. yeah let's dumb this game down even more.|
Originally Posted by GOTerpsPvP
I'm not trying to fix pvp in this thread, just throwing in my two cents on the hibernate power. (you're right that "throwing sharks" for stalkers is also stupid)
If you think that clicking hibernate = leet evasion skills, then I understand why we disagree about the skill required to evade an enemy. Oh well, whatever. People supporting hibernate admit that it's "broken" and an "automatic" escape, but get all buthurt at the mear mention of making a change to the power. Hilarious. Deep breaths guys. |
Please don't make yourself look even more silly than you already have.
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Are you saying that making hibernate interruptible would "dumb the game down" by making it harder to escape?
Though I don't think running away is a great skill, I agree with Supermax that running takes more skill than clicking hibernate.
If you want to dumb the game down, give everyone access to a click power that allows them to rest up to full health in the middle of battle. Check. Done.
So dumb. Seriously, you don't think Hibernate dumbs down the game, and you call me silly? Whatever you say smart guy.
Terps, you remind me of castle. You should get together with the devs and brainstorm. I'm sure they would love your ideas on how to "improve" pvp. You can speed up the process of nerfing us down to brawl and sprint.
The whole evasion aspect of this game is one of the reasons I like it so much. Being able to actually escape a full team trying to spike me is something I find extremely fun. If I wanted something else I'd go play a game like WoW.
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Notice that I'm talking about the 90 seconds of every two minutes where Hibernate isn't available, thus removing it from the equation entirely. I'm not sure why you keep getting stuck on that. I'm pointing out that once someone comes out of Hibernate, you have at least 90 seconds to kill them before they're able to Hibernate again (unless they're close enough to their base where they can just run back in). Like I said, I'm talking about the ability of your team to kill a target, or the ability of that target and his/her teammates to stay alive, during those 90 seconds.|
Originally Posted by GOTerpsPvP
If you think that clicking hibernate = leet evasion skills, then I understand why we disagree about the skill required to evade an enemy.
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| Oh well, whatever. People supporting hibernate admit that it's "broken" and an "automatic" escape, but get all buthurt at the mear mention of making a change to the power. Hilarious. Deep breaths guys. |
Look, we realize your idea of balanced and fun PvP is sprint and brawl. Meanwhile, the rest of us who like PvP with a bit of dynamic to it will continue to use the powers available to us and adapt to what our opponents to instead of whining about it.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Wow. I guess you're right then and I stand corrected. Clicking the power before it's too late must be tremendously skillful.| I've seen on quite a few occasions where someone hits Hibernate just a bit too late and ends up dying |
One time, in I-4, I saw a scrapper use Instant Healing and get killed, but they still changed IH. Can you F'n believe that??? It used to take so much skill to keep the IH toggle on (endurance management is a tough skill to master) and they dumbed it down so it's a click power.
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| Adding an interrupt period to Hibernate turns it into a snipe power, or Aid Self, or Rest - you've got to be standing still and not taking any damage to use it, which is exactly the opposite of the situation where you'd want to use it |
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| Look, we realize your idea of balanced and fun PvP is sprint and brawl. Meanwhile, the rest of us who like PvP with a bit of dynamic to it will continue to use the powers available to us and adapt to what our opponents to instead of whining about it. |
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Wow, really? That's what you got from all of mac's posts?|
Originally Posted by GOTerpsPvP
I realize that you think the Dev's are infallible, so it's tough for you to imagine that everything in pvp is not 100% perfect as is.
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As far as hibernate, my whole point was that hibernate is not even the issue here. It's suppression. Make eluding possible, and hibernate will stop being an issue altogether, because good players will have other ways of evading death (called skill).
Right before I13 came out, I made a public prediction on these forums that phase would become 100% mandatory for all toons. And I was right. It was a pretty simple prediction to make too, based on the added suppression. Before the change, phase was not even an issue. It was only really used in the high end arena PvP. Very few people had it in zones. Why? Because it wasn't 100% required to survive. People had a choice about what to get. Now it is a requirement. Every single squishy must have either phase, hiber, or preferably both. It's either that, or die every 30 seconds, any time you're outnumbered.
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Comparing two completely unrelated powers does little to prove your point.|
Originally Posted by GOTerpsPvP
One time, in I-4, I saw a scrapper use Instant Healing and get killed, but they still changed IH. Can you F'n believe that??? It used to take so much skill to keep the IH toggle on (endurance management is a tough skill to master) and they dumbed it down so it's a click power.
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| Yeah, obviously a change to the power to make it interruptible would impact the situations when it would be useful and significantly reduce its effectiveness as a "battle rest" power. That is exactly what the suggested change is intended to accomplish. |
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| Whatever you say fella. Good stuff. I realize that you think the Dev's are infallible, so it's tough for you to imagine that everything in pvp is not 100% perfect as is. Because of that, I have to think that you're either new to the game or just plain dumb. And I know you're not new to the game |
Seriously? Are you that naive? Good lord, you're an idiot.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
so no one is up for some zots and crambles? You heartless sob's!
........Zots........
........Crambles........
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I disagree. Phase Shift was used extensively in Sirens on Protector and Triumph, mostly as a get-out-of-jail-free card when death was otherwise certain. The DEVs must have agreed it was an issue since they indeed changed it. After it's modifications use of Phase Shift dropped off dramatically in PvP. The DEVs doing some data-mining on the survivibility stats Hibernate use should tell the story.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
Wow, really? That's what you got from all of mac's posts?
Right before I13 came out, I made a public prediction on these forums that phase would become 100% mandatory for all toons. And I was right. It was a pretty simple prediction to make too, based on the added suppression. Before the change, phase was not even an issue. It was only really used in the high end arena PvP. Very few people had it in zones. Why? Because it wasn't 100% required to survive. People had a choice about what to get. Now it is a requirement. Every single squishy must have either phase, hiber, or preferably both. It's either that, or die every 30 seconds, any time you're outnumbered. |
By the way keep in mind that it is human nature that people rarely give up power willingly.
Well I can't speak for other servers...I was just talking about the server where 90% of the PvP takes place, Freedom. There is absolutely no question that phase/hibernate are literally about 10 times more popular now, than before I13. Maybe even more than 10 times.
Sure, ALL the stalkers always had phase, but that was mostly it before I13.
you know anyone with tk can counter hibernate >.>
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tellz me ur sekrits
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Originally Posted by B_Witched
you know anyone with tk can counter hibernate >.>
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I find it funny how people throw hate at Terp like he's "some noub" who has never PvPed before i13. He's probably done more pre-i13 PvP on test than anyone who has posted in this thread.
I can't really take a side on this because the game's system is just too heavily flawed in its current state for us to nitpick and make specific criticisms.
A massive overhaul of the PvP system would be needed before people can drag out singular issues.
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Word. Terp is capable of some dumb ideas, but I would be in the anti-hib camp too if I had to choose a side. Interruptible Hib would be interesting and would in fact change the power entirely. It wouldn't be so much an overly accessible escape but a reg/rec power. However, a lot of other changes would be required in order for this to make sense.|
Originally Posted by YO SON I GOT DORITOS
I find it funny how people throw hate at Terp like he's "some noub" who has never PvPed before i13. He's probably done more pre-i13 PvP on test than anyone who has posted in this thread.
I can't really take a side on this because the game's system is just too heavily flawed in its current state for us to nitpick and make specific criticisms. A massive overhaul of the PvP system would be needed before people can drag out singular issues. |
As stated, the system would have to go under a pretty strong overhaul before we get to picking it apart.
Are some folks better at evasion than others? Sure. Definitely. It's still not rocket science, c'mon.