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Originally Posted by YO SON I GOT DORITOS
I find it funny how people throw hate at Terp like he's "some noub" who has never PvPed before i13. He's probably done more pre-i13 PvP on test than anyone who has posted in this thread.
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What he has done in the past doesn't give him free pass to come up with bad ideas. He is also the same guy who thinks stalkers ruin the game. You would honestly expect someone with his resume to sound less like a fite clubber than he does. Yet just about every time he post thats exactly how he comes off any more.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
What?....stalkers did not ruin the game??????? OMG.....*slits wrist*
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I hate explaining myself to the willfully ignorant, but I do occasionally feel compelled to respond to blatantly false statements about what I believe. You've certainly never heard me say that stalkers ruin the game (because I've never said that and don't feel that way) and I've been anti-fightclub since Day 1 of the pvp zones. While I'm not sure how any intelligent person could interpret anything I've said in this thread (or in the past) the way you apparently have, I know that I often overestimate the intelligence of others.| (Conflict) is also the same guy who thinks stalkers ruin the game….You would honestly expect someone with his resume to sound less like a fite clubber than he does. |
I adapt to the game the devs give me to play and I've never had any problem dealing with stalkers, players using hibernate or anything else.
Does that mean I think pvp is perfect and I'm incapable of seeing ways it could be improved? No.
I'm sorry if my thinking that Hibernate isn't perfect offends you in some way.
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| (Smeghead) his idea is asinine at best. |
Are you backing off what you said about Hibernate being overpowered, or do you just prefer the (bigger) nerf you suggested over the change that I mentioned?
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We already have that. It's called Rest. We don't need a second Rest.
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Originally Posted by perilX
Interruptible Hib would be interesting and would in fact change the power entirely. It wouldn't be so much an overly accessible escape but a reg/rec power.
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I'm not suggesting that everything he says is right because he was once a test server elite.
Consider this:
When a fightclubber whines about hibernate, he is probably just mad because he lost to someone with hibernate, and perceives it as something "FoTM" or "OP" or "dishonorable".
Terp is not a fightclubber. This is someone who's PvPed on test since i4 beta. The use of hibernate is something he is very familiar with and accustomed to. He isn't expressing dissent with hibernate because of a personal distaste - He is looking at things from a much grander perspective and suggesting that altercations to the power may be in the best interests of the game's health. I think that's respectable, whether you agree with it or not.
As I said before, I personally can't take a side because I believe that almost every aspect of this game is seriously flawed, and that to try and fix any single aspect would be useless, as you would be tailoring the changes to an already hideous system.
Yes, Terp is one of the oldest PvP'ers in the game, like myself. I remember him on test like 2 months before arenas went live. But he does have some crazy ideas now, for some reason.
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Yeah but you can die in rest. Now that you mention it though, if rest phased you.... would also be interesting...|
Originally Posted by Supermax
We already have that. It's called Rest. We don't need a second Rest.
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I don't think they will ever just take the power away from everyone, so the power will most likely change to some degree once they put some more time into PvP, if they ever do put more time into the game.
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Thanks for the great feedback. What is that you don't like about making the power interruptible? You previously said that you use hibernate regularly and feel it's overpowered, and even suggested your own change. I like the idea you mentioned of giving the ice a health bar that would allow a attackers to break through, but think that would be more difficult to design and implement effectively. That idea would potentially be a bigger nerf to the power than making the power interruptible. Are you backing off what you said about Hibernate being overpowered, or do you just prefer the (bigger) nerf you suggested over the change that I mentioned? |
I hate explaining myself to roaches, but here it goes.
If you actually read the post I said it should be a little less powerful and that it should take a team effort to be able to break through hiber. I don't know how that's worse then your awful idea to totally neuter the power and make it worthless.
I am glad a few folks are still around that know I'm not some nub who just encountered hibernate for the first time.
I really don't understand why folks who think evasion should be skillful are in favor of hibernate working the way it does. Using hibernate to avoid death is about as skill-less as it gets.
Scratch that, I completely understand. Pvp is serious business and people don't like being killed, so of course folks will be up in arms whenever you mention changing a power that they depend on for survival.
Our team consistently farmed people that used hiber as a get out of jail free card last night. Only thing it got them was a severe beat down after a 30 second wait. But yeah, it's totally OP.
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Not really. People only use rest while in complete safety....like in their base. With the proposed hiber change, that's the only time it would be used as well, since it would be useless in actual combat. So it would be like a second rest. Which isn't 100% useless, since there are plenty of times people die after using rest and have no way of healing. But it sure would be pretty close to useless.
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Originally Posted by perilX
Yeah but you can die in rest.
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Your team was able to kill a single opponent, and you think that proves something.| Our team consistently farmed people that used hiber as a get out of jail free card last night. Only thing it got them was a severe beat down after a 30 second wait. But yeah, it's totally OP. |
I see.
Tough to argue with “logic” like that.
It still took your team longer to kill those targets than it should have.
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| People only use rest while in complete safety....like in their base. With the proposed hiber change, that's the only time it would be used as well |
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Tisk, Tisk Super, you should know better than to toss in a logical fallacy like that.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
We already have that. It's called Rest. We don't need a second Rest.
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It proves that Hibernate isn't the "get out of jail free" card you're making it out to be. Here's why:|
Originally Posted by GOTerpsPvP
Your team was able to kill a single opponent, and you think that proves something.
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* In a 1 vs team scenario, using Hibernate generally only prolongs your death for the 30 seconds while you're in it.
* In a 1v1 or small team scenario, using Hibernate means you've got 30 seconds of immunity followed by 90 seconds where you're not able to use Hibernate.
If you're so insistent on a nerf to Hibernate, why not just increase its activation time? Making it interruptible is a bit much, and the "make the block of ice able to be destroyed idea" would be neat but the tech probably doesn't exist. Increasing the animation time would mean there's a larger window between when you click the button and when you're actually immune, and it means more time spent rooted while the power animates.
Note that I'm not advocating any of the above changes, as I think with the current travel suppression and heal decay rules an escape power of some sort is necessary, even if it's only temporary. Travel suppression and heal decay, and now the phase change, has served only to slow down PvP and make kills and deaths more guaranteed. Some of the best duels I've ever watched were ones where the participants' HP was constantly bouncing around and you never knew exactly who'd get lucky or who'd do what - watching those was fun. Watching duels these days under the TS/HD on rules just makes me sad.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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I would liken an interruptable hib to that of Aid Self, which I use quite successfully in the middle of battle. I wouldn't find that useless. Interruptable hib isn't my idea for a change, simply commenting on its validity. It's a solution to a piece of a broken system. While I would like interrupting hib over the current version, it would hinder the game if Blasters/Doms/HD were left unchanged.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Not really. People only use rest while in complete safety....like in their base. With the proposed hiber change, that's the only time it would be used as well, since it would be useless in actual combat. So it would be like a second rest. Which isn't 100% useless, since there are plenty of times people die after using rest and have no way of healing. But it sure would be pretty close to useless.
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I miss the old days where Phase had a real cast time. The game has really just been made easier and easier since then, makes me sad.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Increasing the animation time would mean there's a larger window between when you click the button and when you're actually immune, and it means more time spent rooted while the power animates.
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I think the biggest solution to the commonality of powers like Phase and Hibernate especially is to get the system back to a state where you live or die by having (or not having) an escape power. Hell, even if you kept heal decay in zone PvP, changing travel suppression back to the PvE rules or even removing it completely would negate much of the need for phase/hibernate because you'd be more able to use the geometry to your advantage, not to mention it would make Kins useful again.
In all seriousness, if they'd just remove travel suppression, heal decay, base resists, fix damage on AoEs, and fix movement slows, we'd have a halfway decent system where every powerset could have at least some use. From there it'd just be a matter of balancing powers one by one, and maybe finding a different solution to the mez system (not a fan of the old mez system, not a fan of the new one either - I still think something different could be done but I can't really think of anything good). I don't think the old PvP system was perfect, but I sure think it's better than the new one. I sometimes wonder what the old system would've been like if they added the "no toggle dropping" rules, added the global resists/defense in epic/patron shields, added psi resists/defese to defensive sets which lack it in PvE, added a small amount of debuff resistance in melee mez protection powers, and implemented DPA balancing the right way (I mean in a way that makes sense, where powers like Bitter Ice Blast do more damage than Ice Blast, or pool powers aren't some of the best attacks). Regarding mez, maybe give squishies a limited amount of protection against all mezzes and make mezzes last less time. As a tradeoff, the mez powers would deal more damage (kind of like the current system, but not so extreme). Under that kind of system, being mezzed would still be a concern if you weren't teamed with an Emp or other such character but wouldn't be a death sentence like it was in pre-I13 PvP because your toggles wouldn't drop.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Simply put Hibernate is a T9 shield and like most other T9 shields it should have some kind of penalty of use. Why would you have a system going then choose to favorite one power and make it the exception from the rule. Hero side or Villain it has to have some kinda of penalty simply put.
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Originally Posted by Idol
Hero side or Villain it has to have some kinda of penalty simply put.
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They should make it so it roots you in one place and you are basically a sitting duck.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
Simply put, it does have its drawbacks:
1: it roots you for its duration making you a sitting duck
2: you cant attack for its duration
3: it has the phase timer working against it
4: it only lasts 30 seconds
And by other t9 powers, I assume you're referring to things like retsu and unstoppable and the crashes. What you forgot to mention is that during the duration of those powers you can move around and unload your arsenal for 3 minutes. And the crash isn't a big deal to competent players that know how to watch a icon.
I think it depends on what PvP is supposed to be balanced towards (team or duels) as to whether Hibernate needs a change or not. I feel in zone play and team play it is fine but in a duel it is too strong. An option might be to make it so -regen debuffs last the duration of hibernate and increase them to -1500% regen, for the duration of hibernate. While this woudlnt solve what some might feel is an issue for everyone, it would give a little more reason to play a powerset that includes -regen and would help for some people.
Shenanigans
LotD - JaL - POWT/SMD - SoCo - AJs
Hibernate isn't OP. Not nearly.
There are more OP things in this game then hibernate.
I do beleive I see the problem in the equation of why some aren't understanding TERPS though. He is obviously one of the people who retreated deep into the frozen and underused arena, disabling HD, TS and possibly DR, though thats a little unlikely. Hibernate CAN be thought of as OP in arena duels, however, I find it's very useful when you break their LoS and reselect them then rest behind geometry, then you start again, and you won the last 1v1 bout, this time they don't have no hibernate.
Only time I see Hibernate being slightly OP is when used with Etheral Shift for like 40-45 seconds of intangibility and Full HP/End.
Otherwise the power is completely balanced, Trading phase mobility for full HP and whats basically "Held" effect for full end. It is quite balanced. Trust me, I would trade Hibernate for Phase, but I need Tactics on my squishies and Hibernate is just kind of there. Take the limit of 4 pool powers off and you will see a sever drop in Hibernate use.
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thank you.|
Originally Posted by ConFlict
What he has done in the past doesn't give him free pass to come up with bad ideas. He is also the same guy who thinks stalkers ruin the game. You would honestly expect someone with his resume to sound less like a fite clubber than he does. Yet just about every time he post thats exactly how he comes off any more.
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terps pvp'd for like 3 minutes in i10, then got a life, and now he has the right to speak?
-DENIED-
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Originally Posted by macskull
I think the biggest solution to the commonality of powers like Phase and Hibernate especially is to get the system back to a state where you live or die by having (or not having) an escape power. Hell, even if you kept heal decay in zone PvP, changing travel suppression back to the PvE rules or even removing it completely would negate much of the need for phase/hibernate because you'd be more able to use the geometry to your advantage, not to mention it would make Kins useful again.
In all seriousness, if they'd just remove travel suppression, heal decay, base resists, fix damage on AoEs, and fix movement slows, we'd have a halfway decent system where every powerset could have at least some use. From there it'd just be a matter of balancing powers one by one, and maybe finding a different solution to the mez system (not a fan of the old mez system, not a fan of the new one either - I still think something different could be done but I can't really think of anything good). I don't think the old PvP system was perfect, but I sure think it's better than the new one. I sometimes wonder what the old system would've been like if they added the "no toggle dropping" rules, added the global resists/defense in epic/patron shields, added psi resists/defese to defensive sets which lack it in PvE, added a small amount of debuff resistance in melee mez protection powers, and implemented DPA balancing the right way (I mean in a way that makes sense, where powers like Bitter Ice Blast do more damage than Ice Blast, or pool powers aren't some of the best attacks). Regarding mez, maybe give squishies a limited amount of protection against all mezzes and make mezzes last less time. As a tradeoff, the mez powers would deal more damage (kind of like the current system, but not so extreme). Under that kind of system, being mezzed would still be a concern if you weren't teamed with an Emp or other such character but wouldn't be a death sentence like it was in pre-I13 PvP because your toggles wouldn't drop. |
sooooooooo true.
i have phase in every one of my toons that has a remote chance of entering a zone except my masterminds (tight builds are tight)... when elusivity was broken in epics, i barely used phase on my fire/cold, why? because scorp shield was actually worth something; people would miss as i ran off and i wouldn't get suppressed hence i really didn't need to click it much unless i was being debuffed and hit consistently... this is no longer the case, getting hit = getting slowed to trash speeds = phase or die.
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