How does claws stack up to the ST and AoE damage of SS?
By
Bill Z Bubba,
Posted on: 2009-10-08 23:46 in Brutes
Claws is a lot of fun and so far I like it better than SS.
Claws gets a bada$$ AoE (Spin) at level 8, opposed to Footstomp at 32.
Claws gets a ranged attack (Focus) at 18 vs Hurl at 26.
ST damage is great, just ask Billz. I'm currently 23 so I haven't played around with the other 2 cones Claws offers but I'm sure the AoE capability will match SS's.
The only thing "lacking" and I use that word lightly, in Claws is a big hitter like KO Blow. However, I do believe a Claws Brute will be able to use Strike + Slash TWICE before KO Blow has finished recharging from it's first attack. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
For secondary, I chose INV because I didn't really want to worry about active mitigation and I've played WP to death. For me it boiled down to laziness and concept.
Level 6 for Spin, not 8 (*hugs Spin, getting severely lacerated*)
Spin is a wonderful power altogether. Never had Footstomp so can't compare them but Spin is up very quickly, even just with SOs. Claws is nice and fluid for a Brute, getting and maintaining Fury is easy with it. The End costs are nice too.
As for what to pair with it, I think Claws basically goes with everything (except Stone and Shields of course). Maybe troublesome with Squishier secondaries since it doesn't give you as much control as some other sets but other than that it'll basically pair well with almost anything I reckon. Claws/Elec looks cool though (especially compared to my Claws/WP which just looked ok).
Spin does more damage than Foot Stomp (even including Rage), has lower recharge and end cost. You also get it much earlier. The only things FS has going for it are the radius and knockdown. The radius means you won't have to wait a few seconds after jumping into a spawn for them to surround you, and KD is nice.
If you're looking for absolute max performance, I'd say claws. It's also much more comfortable while leveling due to SS getting its only AoE at 32. If you don't care about top performance that much, it boils down to taste I guess.
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hurr?| Spin does more damage than Foot Stomp (even including Rage |
Spin: Dam: 79.04 Cast: 2.5 End: 13.150 Rec: 14
FStomp: Dam: 59.23 Cast: 2.1 End: 18.512 Rec: 20
Doublestacked Rage: 160% dam buff
Doublestacked Followup: 60% dam buff
95% enhancement for both
180% fury for both
Spin: 79.04*(1+.6+.95+1.8) = 343.824
FStomp: 59.23*(1+1.6+.95+1.8) = 316.8805
..... WOW.
And claws also gets eviscerate and shockwave to add to it.
Be well, people of CoH.
DAMNIT! I spent 12 hours last night getting my ss/wp brute from 25 to 33 so I could get foot stomp. I should have rolled a claws. Ok that'll be my project tomorrow with my buddy then. What secondary should I be looking at? Is elec going to be the way to go for this guy due to the lower recharge of claws synergizing great with the +recharge of elec?
Edit: And Bill, according to your thread on the scrapper forums, doesn't Brute Claws out dps brute SS by a large margin?
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footstomp has a far larger radius and once you start slotting for recharge you will have higher aoe dps.
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Originally Posted by Metacreativity
DAMNIT! I spent 12 hours last night getting my ss/wp brute from 25 to 33 so I could get foot stomp. I should have rolled a claws. Ok that'll be my project tomorrow with my buddy then. What secondary should I be looking at? Is elec going to be the way to go for this guy due to the lower recharge of claws synergizing great with the +recharge of elec?
Edit: And Bill, according to your thread on the scrapper forums, doesn't Brute Claws out dps brute SS by a large margin? |
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How are you figuring that? Spin recharges in 14 seconds. FootStomp in 20.| footstomp has a far larger radius and once you start slotting for recharge you will have higher aoe dps |
They both have max target 10.
Is it more likely that you'll hit 10 with foot stomp than spin? Sure. It's certainly easier.
But there is no way that SS can out AoE DPS claws. Not when a claws user can sit back and repeat the attack chain followup, eviscerate, spin or followup, spin, shockwave. But the claws user won't even need to do that. For any given amount of recharge, spin will always do more DPS if all 10 enemies are being hit. IF the claws user never uses eviscerate and shockwave for even more AoE DPS.
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| Edit: And Bill, according to your thread on the scrapper forums, doesn't Brute Claws out dps brute SS by a large margin? |
However, both of those threads were done before we found out that brute claws' damage got tweaked upwards.
I really should revisit those results at some point.
SS might still beat Claws on single target, but there's no chance that it can get anywhere near claws on AoE.
Be well, people of CoH.
I'm currently using my SS/SD to PL my alt account which is a Claws/Elec brute. Gonna be a nasty farmer and it's going to be vastly more end efficient than SS/SD. With the high end cost powers of SS, Rage crash and Hasten crash I WELCOME Claws/Elec's infinite endurance and wicked fast attack chains and wicked fast spin.
Got her up to level 20 so far. She's pacted with a MM on my main account so it's taking a bit longer. I plan on breaking the pact around level 24 or so. Love being able to play 3 characters at the same time on 2 accounts 
I suspect claws beats SS in ST DPS, endurance efficiency, it's got a much easier leveling curve, and gives it a huge run for it's money in AoE as well. It's glorious.
Ahhhh.... Claws...
There's only a few that gets it...
Now if BillZ would put away all those numbers so that none of the reds could see them... ;-)
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For max performance, I say nothing but SR. The only secondary you can soft cap and have permahaste - even without purples.|
Originally Posted by Metacreativity
What secondary should I be looking at? Is elec going to be the way to go for this guy due to the lower recharge of claws synergizing great with the +recharge of elec?
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Others can perform very well too though. You'll have a much smoother ride with WP for example, and I bet you can get that toon even more survivable (softcap + wicked regen), at the cost of permahaste. Inv, ElA, FA, DA, anything will fit with claws... it's just that you can much easier rig some of those secondaries for immortality, and the others for permahaste. You can do both with SR, however. It will be a bit squishier than WP or Inv rigged for immortality, but with scaling resists and some +HP you should be fine in all but the most extreme situations.
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Stacking followups and postioning to get max targets requires time. SS bute clicks´footstomp and rage, gets no redraw on epic aoes.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
How are you figuring that? Spin recharges in 14 seconds. FootStomp in 20.
They both have max target 10. Is it more likely that you'll hit 10 with foot stomp than spin? Sure. It's certainly easier. But there is no way that SS can out AoE DPS claws. Not when a claws user can sit back and repeat the attack chain followup, eviscerate, spin or followup, spin, shockwave. But the claws user won't even need to do that. For any given amount of recharge, spin will always do more DPS if all 10 enemies are being hit. IF the claws user never uses eviscerate and shockwave for even more AoE DPS. In Take 2, (standard SO slotting) claws won. But Take 1 (cranked to the gills enhancement plus brute SS used gloom) showed brute SS beating scrapper Claws for single target damage output. However, both of those threads were done before we found out that brute claws' damage got tweaked upwards. I really should revisit those results at some point. SS might still beat Claws on single target, but there's no chance that it can get anywhere near claws on AoE. |
Not as much as a hassle as you might think. Run into a spawn, hit spin, start ST'ing your hardest target, being sure to use spin every time it's up. You don't really need to position with a taunt aura, as they'll all pile up on you anyway. This of course depends on what enemies you're fighting. My experiences on Liberate so far have shown that most spawns stay up close and personal.
In normal PvE Claws is an absolute monster as well, and doesn't have to deal with rage crashing all the time.
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While true, claws doesn't need the weak PPP aoes since it comes with three good ones. | gets no redraw on epic aoes |
Be well, people of CoH.
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You also forget to say that with SS you have 10 sec every 2min were you can't attack because you don't do any damage.|
Originally Posted by TRTerror
Stacking followups and postioning to get max targets requires time. SS bute clicks´footstomp and rage, gets no redraw on epic aoes.
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both are great sets and really just depends on the the player how good the set is going to be and played.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
Reading this thread made me sad that I've been planning on leveling my SS/WP all this weekend. 
Oh well.
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I did the same thing. =(
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Originally Posted by Take_It_Easy
Reading this thread made me sad that I've been planning on leveling my SS/WP all this weekend.
Oh well. |
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It isn't too late to change your plans. You can still roll and lvl both. It's going to be a long weekend.
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Originally Posted by Take_It_Easy
Reading this thread made me sad that I've been planning on leveling my SS/WP all this weekend.
Oh well. |
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
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Originally Posted by Take_It_Easy
Reading this thread made me sad that I've been planning on leveling my SS/WP all this weekend.
Oh well. |
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Originally Posted by magikwand
It isn't too late to change your plans. You can still roll and lvl both. It's going to be a long weekend.
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Oh, I'm not going to stop leveling my SS/WP. SS has always appealed to me more than Claws, and I think it's much more fun to level.
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Originally Posted by magikwand
It isn't too late to change your plans. You can still roll and lvl both. It's going to be a long weekend.
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Im on the opposite side of the fence. I LOVE claws. Today I made my first one I intend to level. He's 29 now, and having an aoe and ranged attack early have been such a boon.
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Originally Posted by Take_It_Easy
Oh, I'm not going to stop leveling my SS/WP. SS has always appealed to me more than Claws, and I think it's much more fun to level.
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Both are great sets, but in reality, when you look at the statistics, claws is by far the superior performing set, even when you consider SS with double stacked rage, lol. I'm honestly surprised (pleasantly) that they made it as powerful as they did. But it makes me wonder where their heads are at when they were looking to make the SS rage crash even worse a while back. The endurance crash and ten seconds of impotence and defense penalty, is a pretty excessive price to pay just to do damage on par with other sets, or when compared to claws, less damage.
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
You also forget to say that with SS you have 10 sec every 2min were you can't attack because you don't do any damage.
both are great sets and really just depends on the the player how good the set is going to be and played. |
and that's 10 seconds every 60 seconds when you're double stacking it. Dropping your DPS into the dirt 1/6th of the time doesn't sound like fun to me.
Be well, people of CoH.
So is there a secondary set that can do both: Farm and Solo AV's?
I'm thinking of making a brute this weekend, and claws looks like a lot of fun. How does it compare after SS gets footstomp? Is the single target damage close? Also, what secondary goes well? I was thinking /SR or /elec, or would willpower be better? I'm looking forward to responses