If you want defense for melee, range and aoe, you can't do much better than a shield tank. Invun is a resist set but can be soft capped pretty easily. Lots of good builds floating around the forums.
@Ra Ra
I'm judging from the tone of the post that when you say defense, you aren't referring to "Defense", i.e. the particular layer of protection that reduces an enemy's chance to hit you, but rather a more general sense of survivability against various enemies. Here's how I would characterize the sets very briefly:
Dark: Potentially very powerful but a bit trickier to build and manage than some sets. It combines control, decent resists, a touch of defense and an extremely powerful heal.
Electric: Not overly impressive for survivability, it has some reasonable resistance and (now) a solid heal/regen power. Also has some interesting utility in endurance drain and recovery.
Fiery: Decent resists with a very strong heal power. It has a little utility and some nice damage options. Many feel that Shield is the better "damage for survivability" trade-off set.
Ice: A set that doesn't see enough play IMO. Based almost entirely around defense, once it gets going it is fully capable of soft-capping against most damage types with a decent number of enemies to power Energy Absorption, even without looking to pools or IOs. Also very strong for holding aggro.
Invulnerability: Extremely sturdy against smashing/lethal, but also capable of putting together some very good defense and decent resists to everything except psi. Really lacking in any offensive output unfortunately.
Shield: Like Fiery, this set provides more modest protection in exchange for increased damage. As a positional-defense based set it is very IO-friendly, and the offensive options are really noticeable.
Stone: Fairly modest protection until you reach Granite, which provides extraordinary survival numbers (both defense and resistance) in exchange for some pretty hefty debuffs to damage, recharge and mobility. If you're looking for a tank that takes a ridiculous beating you can't go wrong here.
Willpower: As you probably know, this set combines a mixture of resistance, defense and strong health/regen, as well as providing a little utility. Functioning around multiple layers of protection even more than other sets, Willpower has very few holes and is very adaptable. It is unfortunately quite weak at holding aggro and does nothing for your offense.
Don't forget to also consider secondaries as they can provide surprising amounts of damage mitigation. The most notable are probably Dark (for its debuffs and particularly the heal), Ice (for its control) and Stone (also for its control), but most of the sets provide a degree of mezzing and/or knockdown that can be leveraged to help keep you in fighting form.
Dark Armor/Stone Melee Tank Guide [I12]
Pyro TYVM! Perfectly described for me, ty ty ty! I have been wanting to try shield(just b/c they are cool) and ice but like you said, I don't see much of them too so I figured ice armor wasn't great but I always went by if i like it, try it.
wth is Dersk!?
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
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Originally Posted by Pyromantic
I'm judging from the tone of the post that when you say defense, you aren't referring to "Defense", i.e. the particular layer of protection that reduces an enemy's chance to hit you, but rather a more general sense of survivability against various enemies. Here's how I would characterize the sets very briefly:
Dark: Potentially very powerful but a bit trickier to build and manage than some sets. It combines control, decent resists, a touch of defense and an extremely powerful heal. Electric: Not overly impressive for survivability, it has some reasonable resistance and (now) a solid heal/regen power. Also has some interesting utility in endurance drain and recovery. Fiery: Decent resists with a very strong heal power. It has a little utility and some nice damage options. Many feel that Shield is the better "damage for survivability" trade-off set. Ice: A set that doesn't see enough play IMO. Based almost entirely around defense, once it gets going it is fully capable of soft-capping against most damage types with a decent number of enemies to power Energy Absorption, even without looking to pools or IOs. Also very strong for holding aggro. Invulnerability: Extremely sturdy against smashing/lethal, but also capable of putting together some very good defense and decent resists to everything except psi. Really lacking in any offensive output unfortunately. Shield: Like Fiery, this set provides more modest protection in exchange for increased damage. As a positional-defense based set it is very IO-friendly, and the offensive options are really noticeable. Stone: Fairly modest protection until you reach Granite, which provides extraordinary survival numbers (both defense and resistance) in exchange for some pretty hefty debuffs to damage, recharge and mobility. If you're looking for a tank that takes a ridiculous beating you can't go wrong here. Willpower: As you probably know, this set combines a mixture of resistance, defense and strong health/regen, as well as providing a little utility. Functioning around multiple layers of protection even more than other sets, Willpower has very few holes and is very adaptable. It is unfortunately quite weak at holding aggro and does nothing for your offense. Don't forget to also consider secondaries as they can provide surprising amounts of damage mitigation. The most notable are probably Dark (for its debuffs and particularly the heal), Ice (for its control) and Stone (also for its control), but most of the sets provide a degree of mezzing and/or knockdown that can be leveraged to help keep you in fighting form. |
Good advice.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Ice has a number of things working against its popularity. As a primarily defense-based set it tends to feel weak and inconsistent at low levels. A lot of people also don't like the visuals, though this is hopefully less of an issue now. It doesn't have the awesome survivability of stone, the extraordinary damage potential of shield or the cultural relevance of invulnerability. It is however a very good set.|
Originally Posted by Orehrepus
Pyro TYVM! Perfectly described for me, ty ty ty! I have been wanting to try shield(just b/c they are cool) and ice but like you said, I don't see much of them too so I figured ice armor wasn't great but I always went by if i like it, try it.
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Chilling embrace is very, very effective for holding aggro as well as providing solid debuffs, and the set also has a damage aura in Icicles. Energy absorption makes this one of the most endurance-friendly sets available as well as providing good defense. (As a sidenote here, opinions vary on how to slot it; personally I frankenslot for a mixture of defense, recharge and end mod.)
While it's actually possible to soft cap your defenses with enough EA stacked just from the set itself, realistically you are going to want some additional help. Combat jumping, weave, steadfast protection +def and other IO set bonuses are all possibilities. It isn't hard to build for consistent soft-capping by the early 30s to most damage types, at which point the build feels quite sturdy.
A lot of secondaries go well with Ice also. I have Ice/Mace and Ice/Stone at 50 and really enjoy both. I've also tried Ice/SS and Ice/Fiery, with Ice/Dark on my list of things to get to one of these days. Ice really helps deal with secondaries that are end-intensive, and its excellent aggro potential pairs well with strong AoE sets. Alternatively, secondaries with strong mitigation can help overcome the occasional spikes of damage defense-based sets see. Really, it's hard to go wrong here.
Dark Armor/Stone Melee Tank Guide [I12]
Having done Ice/Dark to about 16 or 17, I've already found it pretty survivable. The -tohit in the attacks is *not* as strong as Brute, Scrapper, or Stalker versions, which I think is not fair, since tanks have the least damage of the 4 melee ATs, they should get better secondary effects, but I digress. With just the basics and only DOs slotted, I've been able to tank +1s and the occasional +2 spawn with no major difficulty. I imagine once I get to SOs and can take and enhance Siphon Life that I'll be a nigh-unstoppable force to be reckoned with. Definitely a good choice.
~WP
Just my opinion, feel free to disregard... I would say ice armor has to be the best for defense, u dont even have to io to cap defense after EA gets stacked from a group and its constant endurance plus hoarfrost which increases max hp and heals, hibernate, what more could u want really.
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Gotta second the ice/dm. This set goes hand in hand in a lot of situations. the -tohit stacks, less they hit the longer you live. Siphon life, right out of the box saved my butt countless times. EA, and DC would work as a sapper tank. Least I think, does DC leech end, or does it just take dmg and convert it to endurance for the tanker?|
Originally Posted by W Peace
Having done Ice/Dark to about 16 or 17, I've already found it pretty survivable. The -tohit in the attacks is *not* as strong as Brute, Scrapper, or Stalker versions, which I think is not fair, since tanks have the least damage of the 4 melee ATs, they should get better secondary effects, but I digress. With just the basics and only DOs slotted, I've been able to tank +1s and the occasional +2 spawn with no major difficulty. I imagine once I get to SOs and can take and enhance Siphon Life that I'll be a nigh-unstoppable force to be reckoned with. Definitely a good choice.
~WP |
I had a ice/ice like I said a week or so ago, but it was just so boreing. I roled a ice/dm, and I am very impressed. Makes me almost wish my spines/sr was a dm/sr
. My spines/sr melts spawns at incredible durability so, I ain't complaing about that scrap.
protector-knight: lvl 50 invun/axe tank
Lillian Brick: lvl 50 stone/stone/pyre tank
Hybrid-knight: lvl 50 db/regen scrap
Vengful-Nature: lvl 50 spines/sr/bod scrap
Element-Wizard: lvl 50 fire/storm/stone troll
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I've taken ice and shield to 50 and they're both very good. It's really tough to say which is tougher since the builds are not similar (I would say my shield tank is tougher, but he has Tough and Weave while my ice tank has neither of those). 'Out of the box', with no IO's or power pools, I think ice is a bit tougher.|
Originally Posted by Orehrepus
Pyro TYVM! Perfectly described for me, ty ty ty! I have been wanting to try shield(just b/c they are cool) and ice but like you said, I don't see much of them too so I figured ice armor wasn't great but I always went by if i like it, try it.
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They're both great sets to play, though. If you're really keen on costumes, I'd go with shield. The ice armors cover your costume and there are *A LOT* of just stunning shield options.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
I've taken ice and shield to 50 and they're both very good. It's really tough to say which is tougher since the builds are not similar (I would say my shield tank is tougher, but he has Tough and Weave while my ice tank has neither of those). 'Out of the box', with no IO's or power pools, I think ice is a bit tougher.
They're both great sets to play, though. If you're really keen on costumes, I'd go with shield. The ice armors cover your costume and there are *A LOT* of just stunning shield options. |
Second this. Though I ended up deleting my ice tanks because of the way it looked. (If you could mix chilling embrace graphics with something like Frostwork from Cold Dom I'd be happy)
Ice was an easy set to level up, defense was solid enough though every once in a while some big hits did get through. The big advantage of shield being the mini nuke every 30 seconds that pretty much wipes out all minions and seriously dents LT's in its secondary.
Beyond the graphics what ended up moving me away from Ice Armor was the potential. Its easy to softcap meaning you can put more focus into +recharge (don't need +HP with perma Hoarfrost) and +regen. However in the end it just didn't feel as "tough" as an IO'ed shield who can still hit almost 50% to Smashing/Lethal resists and 24% resist to the rest other than PSI. And with the best mitigation being dead foes, shield's definitely has the top spot with that.
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Yes, I forgot to mention this. My first tank was invuln and it was just TORTURE until I got SO's. He didn't feel like a tank at all. My ice tank seemed considerably tougher than everyone around him even at very low level. In fact, when I'm going to do the Cavern trial (which exemps to 15) and fight our way through, I usually use my ice tank.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Ice was an easy set to level up, defense was solid enough though every once in a while some big hits did get through.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Don't sell Ice short - Chilling Embrace has got -35% recharge and -14% damage which effectively equates to 49% resistance to all damage from mobs in melee.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Second this. Though I ended up deleting my ice tanks because of the way it looked. (If you could mix chilling embrace graphics with something like Frostwork from Cold Dom I'd be happy)
Ice was an easy set to level up, defense was solid enough though every once in a while some big hits did get through. The big advantage of shield being the mini nuke every 30 seconds that pretty much wipes out all minions and seriously dents LT's in its secondary. Beyond the graphics what ended up moving me away from Ice Armor was the potential. Its easy to softcap meaning you can put more focus into +recharge (don't need +HP with perma Hoarfrost) and +regen. However in the end it just didn't feel as "tough" as an IO'ed shield who can still hit almost 50% to Smashing/Lethal resists and 24% resist to the rest other than PSI. And with the best mitigation being dead foes, shield's definitely has the top spot with that. |
Add that to capped defence to most damage types, decent resistance (with tough) a large heal, hibernate and the ability to completely drain mobs of Endurance it makes for a very durable tanker.
The only downside is the Psi hole.
Not saying it's tougher than a Sheild but it is very durable.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
Ice can easily match shield in defense but also adds a +HP/Heal Power in Hoarfrost and a Regem.Recovery power in Hibernate. Dont sell Ice short.. I have an Ice/Stone that survives as well as any tank I have played so far..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Right, I was going to mention the recharge debuff of Ice. I've never played the set so I'm not sure if other Ice powers offer recharge debuff too. Since it's affecting recharge, it's no help at all on the alpha, but should help after that.
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Originally Posted by Psiphon
Don't sell Ice short - Chilling Embrace has got -35% recharge and -14% damage which effectively equates to 49% resistance to all damage from mobs in melee.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
a -recharge proc in CE helps longer-term mitigation, too.
50s:
Grimmloch, Tactically Delicious, Ugly Frankie, Operative Tracker, CryoFurnace, Professional Help, Silver Sphinx, Aries Knight, Tachyon Aegis, Jade Sphinx
Currently building:
Any one of half a dozen alts!
Ice is a great set, just wish it had a no vfx option... as the armors are fugly.
well, CE and Hoarfrost look great. And EA is about as blocky as is tolerable. Iceshield, wetice, and glacial armor are just ugly.
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So ironic, given your name. |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Ice is a great set, just wish it had a no vfx option... as the armors are fugly.
well, CE and Hoarfrost look great. And EA is about as blocky as is tolerable. Iceshield, wetice, and glacial armor are just ugly. |
I have to give my Ice Tanker a roll with power customization, actually. I didn't really like how covered up he got either, but you can make it so your ice is pretty clear (you just can guess at the shape of the armor around you: it is otherwise translucent), and you'll be able to see your costume, etc. pretty well. A friend of mine had an ice defender that switched up like this, and I appreciated it. I like the ice shields they handed out, but not how they changed up my look.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
what colors are you picking to make it as transparent as possible? I've manage to get it fairly clear, but... still bothers me.
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I found that a really desaturated light tan made my Cold Ice Shields almost invisible. So invisible, in fact, that only the "lines" that made up the edges were visible, the facets were completely clear. I had to increase the intensity of the color to make the facets show up at all. (I was going for a look something like quartz crystal, to match Earth Control)|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
what colors are you picking to make it as transparent as possible? I've manage to get it fairly clear, but... still bothers me.
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Of course, that's Cold Domination, and Ice's shields may be somewhat different. I can't say for sure the same color will have the same effect. But you might be able to use like a desaturated blue for the primary color, to highlight the edges, and then that tan for the secondary.
I don't think that "grid" of lines around you can ever completely go away, though.
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I used one of the blues...not the darkest but not the brightest either. I was really frustrated while I was making the toon because nothing looked like it was going to be even close to being invisible but when I logged in, it was WAY lighter than what the character generator showed. I can see my toon way better than the ice armor.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
what colors are you picking to make it as transparent as possible? I've manage to get it fairly clear, but... still bothers me.
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I'm gonna try it with some other colors and see if I can get any closer.
Nice, I'll give this a try. Thanks guys.
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Someone needs to put all the quoted post into a guide. It's stated about as perfectly as possible.
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Originally Posted by Pyromantic
Ice has a number of things working against its popularity. As a primarily defense-based set it tends to feel weak and inconsistent at low levels. A lot of people also don't like the visuals, though this is hopefully less of an issue now. It doesn't have the awesome survivability of stone, the extraordinary damage potential of shield or the cultural relevance of invulnerability. It is however a very good set.
Chilling embrace is very, very effective for holding aggro as well as providing solid debuffs, and the set also has a damage aura in Icicles. Energy absorption makes this one of the most endurance-friendly sets available as well as providing good defense. (As a sidenote here, opinions vary on how to slot it; personally I frankenslot for a mixture of defense, recharge and end mod.) While it's actually possible to soft cap your defenses with enough EA stacked just from the set itself, realistically you are going to want some additional help. Combat jumping, weave, steadfast protection +def and other IO set bonuses are all possibilities. It isn't hard to build for consistent soft-capping by the early 30s to most damage types, at which point the build feels quite sturdy. A lot of secondaries go well with Ice also. I have Ice/Mace and Ice/Stone at 50 and really enjoy both. I've also tried Ice/SS and Ice/Fiery, with Ice/Dark on my list of things to get to one of these days. Ice really helps deal with secondaries that are end-intensive, and its excellent aggro potential pairs well with strong AoE sets. Alternatively, secondaries with strong mitigation can help overcome the occasional spikes of damage defense-based sets see. Really, it's hard to go wrong here. |
Yeah, I'll have to mess with the colors myself... glad to see someone posted those. I don't mind at least seeing the "edges" or grid of ice around me, but I do want to be able to see my costume. Ice was at least a little less egregious for this than Stone, and now even more so. I may still want a more opaque look for Icicles, but we'll see how that looks with the other Ice colors I choose.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Out of all the first set of pools for the tanks, which supports the best defense overall? I know some have better protection against a variety of attacks. I have a WP tank and it's my first tank and I'm loving it and want to roll another tank. Is Invinc. the best defense for all types of attacks?