A Treatise on two new Archetypes

Once upon a time, amid suggestions of adding new archetypes to the game, I recalled one dev (I cannot remember which) stating that unless a gap in playstyle/power combinations could be found and adequately presented, there was no need for new archetypes. While I agree with that sentiment, and don't neccessarily feel anything will come from this, it got the wheels in my head turning, and I began thinking, what holes in playstyle DO we have?

To that end, I collected my thoughts and consolidated them into two archetype ideas - one for heroes, and one for villains, to give options that are not only currently found nowhere in the player experience, but more importantly, ones which give interesting dynamics that fill missing holes in their side's classes, respectively. I use 'he' in their descriptions only for simplicity - no gender preference is implied.

Numbers and comparisons aren't meant to be taken as solid or final judgements - they're just sort of approximately where I see them in a balance perspective, but obviously, were the classes to exist, playtesting and seeing them in action would better determine what tweaks and modifiers would be needed. Anyways, if I haven't bored you to death yet, here they are, for your thoughts, consideration, and, quite possibly, knowing these boards (heh), vitriol:

The Leader - a commander of men, shining example of cunning, strategy, and discipline, and inspiration to the masses, and the Oppressor - a brutal tyrant, rationing out power and stamping out those who cross him, acting as judge, jury, and executioner.



The Leader
Heroic Archetype

The Leader is an archetype who is a paragon and inspirations to others. His natural panache and keen tactical mind has attracted other heroes and do-gooders to his side, and his ability to lead by example is a stark contrast to the Mastermind's 'do as I say, not as I do' methodology. He can most closely be compared to the Crab Spider, but the Leader is a more tactical fighter than a Crab could ever hope to be - sacrificing some protection and buffing/debuffing for greater damage, control of his followers, and adaptability under pressure.

Primary: Assault
Secondary: Pets

Leaders have respectable ranged and melee damage modifiers - notably lower than that of a Blaster or Scrapper, but higher than that of a Tanker.
Leaders have Defender level modifiers to the Leadership pool, but Blaster level modifiers to all other buff/debuff powers.
Leaders have Scrapper level modifiers on armor powers.
Leaders generate more aggro than a Defender, but less than that of a Scrapper.
Kheldians of both varieties gain a 10% discount to endurance costs of all powers for each Leader on their team.

Design Philosophy:
The Leader is the Scrapper to the Mastermind's Tanker - a fast-playing, aggressive pet user, as compared to the more methodical and safe approach of many Masterminds. While a Mastermind will take the defensive role, allowing his pets to do most of the work, the Leader is at the forefront, dishing out punishment with a variety of impressive attacks, while his pets form a more supporting role, as additional damage and support to the Leader, instead of the other way around. He fills a hole in heroic archetypes - that of the offensive-driven (as opposed to support-driven) pet user.

Like the Blaster, they are a purely offense-driven class, and have little in the way of personal protection, however, their protections are somewhat better as an offset to their more limited numbers of ranged attacks, lower damage, and limited secondary control effects. When pets are factored in, they are comparable in damage to a Scrapper, but less outright survivable. The tradeoff for the much more limited defenses, is of course that their pets can simultaneously attack multiple foes, and many can do so at range.

The Leader's true strength lies in options and adaptability - being able to use their pets to attack multiple targets at once, spreading damage across a large area, or focusing all their attacks on a single foe which they are also attacking, to reach truly impressive damage, with the separate endurance of their pets allowing them to fight in both these ways more efficiently. Tactics in battle - the Leader's potential versatility and ability to change their fighting playstyle instantly to the situation - is their core strength. Like Kheldians, they are a jack of all trades style class - master of no single discipline with tools to handle any scenario (though no crowd control, and a particular specialty through their pets).

Through use of their Charisma inherent (described below) an aggressive playstyle is encouraged, and further increases their tactical options, giving them a unique spot on the hero team as a special sort of toolbox tactician. A good leader is not only a boon to the damage of the team, but in short bursts can give them the specific sort of edge they need to overcome any situation - so long as their inspiration supply holds out. The closest analog to this Archetype is the Crab Spider, however, they comparatively rely more on their pets and inherent, and have considerably less defenses.

Inherent:
Charisma - Whenever the leader uses an Inspiration, all allies within 20 feet of the hero gain 10% of the benefit of that inspiration, with his pets gaining 20% of the inspiration's benefit, instead. This does not work on Awaken, Will of the Earth, or Ambrosia inspirations, nor on presents which award influence, temp powers, or other non-buffing prizes. When used with a Break Free, the duration of the inspiration is reduced instead of the intensity.

Charisma allows the leader to bolster their team - while not to the extent of a Defender or even many controllers, they can do it in much more adaptable ways, as is befitting their tactical nature. As an explicitly inspiring figure, it makes sense that their own Inspirations are a potent force for the team. With inspirations, they can make the team hit harder, last longer, or even break free of control for those precious few seconds to use a power which saves the day.

Charisma is also designed to allow the pet aspect of the class to run efficiently. Leaders do not gain the ability to buff their pets through their powersets directly like a Controller or Mastermind, nor do they have the controls of a Controller or Dominator to help keep them alive, nor even the Mastermind's Supremacy to motivate their pets into action. Instead, they have a greater potential to boost them than all the others combined, but it must be done in calculated bursts - as the quantities of inspirations are limited. This forces a more aggressive playstyle than that of other pet classes - by design. A proficient player will want to get the maximum use out of those inspiration buffs by continuing to press the assault, as well as to generate more inspirations to keep the cycle rolling - an ideal setup for the design philosophy behind the Leader.

Powersets:
The Leader has the following Primary Powerset options:
Earth Assault, Electricity Assault, Energy Assault, Fiery Assault, Icy Assault, Psionic Assault, Thorny Assault.

These are identical to those found on Dominators, except of course they do not have any effects affected by Domination, and Power Boost on all powersets which have it has been replaced with Build Up.

The Leader has the following Secondary Powerset options:
Robotics, Ninjas, Soldiers (reskinned Mercenaries with a conventional military theme), Einherjar (reskinned Necromancy, with a nordic Valhallan spirit/valkyrie theme), Heroes (reskinned thugs with a superhero theme. Gang War could call on either generic Longbow or Vanguard looking heroic types in keeping with existing heroes encountered on Safeguards and in the RWZ.)

These sets have some important changes made to them, to fit with the Leader's design and playstyle philosophies, as well as to prevent redundancy in certain powers:

The four attacks in each set have been removed.
The attacks have been replaced with powers that fit the general convention outlined below, though each may have varieties in the specifics of how they operate. In no particular order:
1. A toggle which grants resistance or defense to three or more damage types, comparable to Arachnos patron armors.
2. A toggle which grants resistance to all damage types, to the Leader and all allies in an area - functionally identical to Maneuvers in the Leadership pool, but for resistances instead of defenses.
3. A passive power which grants resistance to all damage types, defense to all positional types, increased max HP, or some combination of the three, as well as mag 4 mez protection, similar to the Arachnos Soldier passive armors or High Pain Tolerance.
4. A self-heal, be it similar to Siphon Life, Healing Flames, Dull Pain, etc., as based on the theme of the set.

The Oppressor
Villainous Archetype

The Oppressor is a dominating figure - a weilder of fearsome fighting abilities, and possessor of gifts which advance his chosen to incredible strengths, or drive the weaklings before him into the dirt. Unlike the Defender of the heroes, the Oppressor primarily uses his or her gifts to first boost his own abilities to crush those before him. Others may recieve these blessings, but only to aid the Oppressor in utterly dominating his foes. Compared to the Corruptor, his closest analog, he plays a dangerous game with higher risks and rewards - his buff/debuff powers are more impressive, and he does more up-front damage (though Scourge catches the Corruptor up as a foe crumples), but cannot afford to play it safe like the Corruptor, and must do his work in the thick of battle alongside the Stalkers and Brutes.

Primary: Buff/Debuff
Secondary: Melee

Oppressors have slightly below Dominator level modifiers on melee powers, and Defender level modifiers on ranged powers.
Oppressors have Defender level modifiers on buff/debuff powers, including pool powers.
Oppressors have Corruptor level armor modifiers.
Oppressors generate more aggro than a Corruptor, but less than that of a Scrapper.
Kheldians of both varieties gain a 10% discount to endurance costs of all powers for each Oppressor on their team.
On a Barracuda strike force, Oppressors gain the same special power as Masterminds.

Design Philosophy:
The Oppressor gives villains the one major powerset option they truly lack - a primary-level buffing/debuffing option on the level of the Defender, while still maintaining the villain theme of classes being more combat-focused and damage-capable than their heroic counterparts often are. The parity of buff and melee is a combination currently found nowhere in City of Heroes outside of limited application in certain Arachnos Soldier/Widow setups, where the buffing still takes a back seat to their personal attacks and armor, and is limited to essentially a single flavour of application for each of those two archetypes.

Compared to the Dominator, they have a similar playstyle - utilize their primary powers to aid the team, then move into the thick of battle to add to the carnage. Unlike the Dominator, however, they do not have the protection intrinsic to control powers, instead, they use their buffs and debuffs to overwhelm the enemy, ideally in a team setting, and crush the enemies quickly, rather than safely. Speed is their game. Compared to the Corruptor, who they share much in common with, they are more front-loaded, and arguably more dangerous to play. They are required to be in a more risky environment to use their attack powers and make best use of their inherent ability, whereas the Corruptor can easily hang back, buff allies from a distance, and pick off foes from safety with scourge. The tradeoff is a faster (arguably more exciting) playstyle, and more potent hits in the opening of a battle, where they have a chance to really make a difference.

Corruptors and Oppressors compliment each other wonderfully - the Oppressor leading the offense with the Corruptor supporting him in the early fight, with the Oppressor's slightly superior aggro generation, and his own support abilities, keeping the foes away from the Corruptor in late fight, allowing the Corruptor to focus on Scourge without having to worry about the team losing support.

The inherent ability of the Oppressor (as detailed below) is designed to further bolster this 'aggressive support' philosphy - while on the surface, its primary function is to simply afford the Oppressor a reasonable survivability while remaining primarily in melee range, on a purely thematic level, it fits their concept beautifully - a group of enemies may appear to get the drop on the Oppressor, and as they move in for the kill, the Oppressor breaks free of their confinement and unleases a torrent of speedy attacks, felling them (and then returning to 'weakened' status after they fall).

Inherent:
Shock and Awe - For each enemy, up to 8, within 10 feet of the Oppressor, the Oppressor gains a 3.125% bonus to global Recharge rates, 5% bonus to all resistances, and 1 mag Mez protection, for a maximum possible bonus of 25% recharge, 40% resistance to all, 8 mag mez protection. Obviously, as foes and the Oppressor move around in combat, this number will fluctuate. This forces the Oppressor to remain mobile in combat, seeking to always remain close to foes, while simultaneously trying to avoid a direct, focused assault on their person.

Shock and Awe allows the Oppressor to effectively operate in the more dangerous melee environement than other 'squishy' classes, despite being, at their core, still a 'squishy' class for most intents and purposes. While the sliding protections it offers gives them the ability to absorb some stray hits or PBAOE attacks used by larger foes, it still preserves the 'squishy' feel by not allowing them to safely maintain aggro or sustained direct attack without assistance. In essence, it lets them function adequately as a melee-centric support class without having to resort to the conventional armor sets, or the crowd control of Dominators. Compared to the control options of Dominators, or the ranged options of Corruptors, their inherent should afford them comparable levels of survivability, albiet in a different way.

Because of their relative fragility, the recharge bonus of Shock and Awe is alternative solution for a method to keep their performance up in dangerous situations, compared to the lowered endurance inherent of Defenders, or the increased damage of Corruptors, Stalkers, Brutes, Scrappers or Blasters. In fitting with the theme of the Oppressor, this aspect of their inherent allows them to more quickly buff allies/debuff foes when in danger, or to unleash strings of attacks to quickly end the fight - an option that makes both primary and secondary focus choices in these situations viable, instead of merely focusing on the damage aspect like most other classes, or the buffing aspect like Defenders. As it is a sliding scale based on the number of nearby foes, it is a controllable, variable range of aid that is proportional to the risk - the higher the danger, the greater the reward, but also the faster the Oppressor burns through endurance.

Powersets:
The Oppressor has the following Primary Powerset options:
Dark Miasma, Force Field, Kinetics, Radiation Emission, Sonic Resonance, Pain Domination, Poison, Traps

These are identical to those found on Defenders, Corruptors, and Masterminds, where found, in that order of priority where sets may differ. Noxious Gas in Poison would also have to be changed to something more appropriate as they do not have pets.

The Oppressor has the following Secondary Powerset options:
Broad Sword, Claws, Dark Melee, Dual Blades, Katana, Martial Arts, Super Strength, Stone Melee, Spines, Battle Axe, War Mace

The initial pool of Oppressor attacks focuses primarily on damage through physical impact, rather than more flashy elemental attacks.
These are identical to those found on Scrappers and Tankers, except that instead of Taunt/Confront, they have a single target Undermine power: a -20% Resistance/-20% Defense debuff, with a 60 second recharge, a 1.5 second activation time, and which lasts 15 seconds.

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Two really nice ideas. I've thought about having Pets as a secondary set before, and giving Defenders melee (or Assult) sets but these are really excellently thought through and fleshed out for each side.

Nice work. Me wants both please Devs.

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Switch the powersets around on the Oppressors and it'll work better. Melee primary/Support secondary.

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Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522

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Great concepts, I'm not big on numbers and balance, but they sound fun. One small typo, when you're listing the Oppressor's sets you have written Leader.

Otherwise, well written and thought out. Dev's... yes please!

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I have to say... I love this. All of it.

Of course, when Going Rogue hits, and we'll have all ATs on all sides, they won't be quite as unique.

OMGGOINGROGUEISDOOOOOOM!

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/signed
I'm not too sure on numbers or if I'd roll one up, but I am signing this if only because it's well thought out and you clearly put a lot of work and thought into it.
Also, adding new diversity to the AT list is pretty sweet too.

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Awesome ideas, very nicely explained. I've suggested ideas similar to these before and seen them a couple of times, but they were usually suggested both as hero ATs. Very good thinking on the inherants, they fit the concept well and (AFAIK) are unique suggestions.

Three thumbs up!

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I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc

I'm a big fan of both of these ideas. Well done, good sir!

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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about these sets. I do wonder if you've factored in the different power leveling between primary and secondary set?

The Leader

a secondary pet set will mean getting new pets at levels 2 (tier 1), 20 (tier 2) and 35 (tier 3) --> your strongest pet won't come for 9 levels after an MM

additional pets would then be at levels: 10 (2nd tier 1), 24 (3rd tier 1), 32 (2nd tier 2)

upgrades would be at levels: 10 (1st upgrade), 38 (2nd upgrade)

The other issue would be that your Leader would draw the most aggro for the entire group since his damage would necessarily have to be the largest (just to survive until he gets pets). His defensive toggles would arrive at levels: 1, 4, 16 with the heal at 28. The real issue I see here is trying to balance the amount of def/res with other ATs. Scrapper level protection would far uber-power the AT, especially in the late game (a scrapper with pets! sure personal damage output would be less, but that's made up for by the pets) yet in the early game it would be necessary to keep him alive since he's basically a dominator with no domination and no holds (therefore, mostly moderate damage, long animation powers).

So I would suggest this means one or more of:

- pets would have to be weaker or fewer than MM pets
- no bodyguard mode
- healing power at level 16
- protection much less than scrapper (especially if it is PBAoE for pets also, as suggested)

I do, however, like the general idea of the Charisma inherent


Oppressor

My first impression upon reading this was 'here's a person who plays as a hero most of the time'. The Leader is a potentially uber build for heroes (quasi-scrapper with pets) and the Oppressor (a melee defender!), well, to me it looks like an uber squishy villain.

Apart from...the inherent. A very cool idea, possibly too uber to implement (in teams) but almost useless solo (which is more common on the villain side).

Again, the leveling issue comes into play.
(an aside: it seems to me, you are focusing more on team play, while, obviously, my comments more reflect solo play)

The Oppressor would have to wait a long time to get a decent attack chain going. While they would have a lot of buffs, forcing them to go melee for any damage dealing (esp. with cor level def mods) is suicide except with large groups of enemies (for the inherent to kick in).

For such a melee character, it might be more interesting to build a new set of almost exclusively PBAoE buffs to complement the melee style. But that almost begins to feel like a form of leadership!


Anyway, as mentioned by Sigium, when Going Rogue hits, and the cross-overs start happening, the devs will have little if any incentive to spend time building ATs that are, in general, quite similar to ones that already exist.

One other small point. As Kheldians are an AT unto themselves, you could not have a Kheldian Leader or Kheldian Oppressor

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I like the ideas a lot.

I'm not conviced that the leader would really need to be in there at the front leading though as your suggestion stands. Maybe early on he would be but in late game I suspect you could play him as an MM.

What I'd be tempted to do is have the pets weaker than an MMs and Leaders damage (and maybe Defense/Resistance) lower that you originally suggested. Then have either the inherant include or a power do the following. Increase both the Leader and the Pets Damage (and maybe Defense/Resistance) for each hit the leader does or takes in a similar way to a Brutes fury.

This would make the Leader better leading by example up at the front with his "men".

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I've been wanting a melee + debuff AT for years. That's all it takes to get my support!

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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

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As an on-topic aside, if these ATs did exist, I would play the heck out of a Viking-themed Electric Assault/Einherjar Thor or Odin type, and a Kinetics/Katana alternative 'speedy' ninja character as a contrast to the 'sneaky' ninja of a Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu stalker. Radiation Emission/Super Strength would probably be really fun too, if for nothing else than the mental image of a giant, screaming musclebound abomination spraying deadly radioactive energy from his body uncontrollably.

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Melee/Buff Archetype is close to the only thing left on my wish list. I16 nailed most of my list

Undoubtedly, there's a way to make Melee/Buff and not have it be overpowered. Defenders exist. Corruptors exist. In the simplest sense Ranged is preferable over Melee attacks. There has to be a way to make Melee/Buff.

I don't care if they have Mastermind hit points, Defender melee damage, and Corruptor buff values and no mez protection. Melee Buff is too cool.

Katana/Kinetics?
Super Strength/Radiation?
Yes, please.

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Since I don't care about support ATs, I'll refrain from talking about the Oppressor. The Leader, then:

Firstly, a tangent - you can't make a specific pool power have higher values for one AT than for another. It all comes down to specific AT mods, and if you want to make Leadership strong on the Leader, you're going to have to give them high defence, to-hit and damage buff modifiers, which can potentially make powers like Weave stronger than they should be.

Secondarily, I hold a firm belief that if we'll make a character go into melee, that character has to either have protection, or have VERY serious damage. Even with Assault sets, that remains an important point. Generally speaking, you contradict your own intention by making this supposedly proactive character into effective team support. The point of a Leader, as viewed through a heroic lens, is to lead by example, and in order to do this, you need to build him as a strong fighter FIRST and a team support SECOND.

In fact, I highly suspect giving this character damage-dealing-mostly henchmen/followers is a mistake. This is a Mastermind talking. With Masterminds, henchmen are their offence, the Mastermind is the defence. With a Leader, the leader should be the offence, the followers only the defence. Don't turn the Leader into a quasi-defender with a little more damage (no, they don't solo THAT well) with Scrapper/Blaster followers, make the Leader himself the Scrapper/Blaster and make his followers be the Defenders/Controllers on the team. In fact, in the absence of Mastermind attacks, I'd give the leader straight-up shields and self protection in his secondary set.

Call the first one Assault and give the Leader Stalker/Dominator damage mods. I'd put them both at 1.0. Give him Blaster hit points, Stalker/Scrapper defence numbers, but severely limit his self-protection powers. Where a Stalker or a Scrapper would have a full set devoted to self-protection, a Leader would have only two or three powers, so that's where balance comes in. AVOID giving him any kind of Bodyguard (not that you do) and he should be fine. Alternatively, can direct self-protection and instead have followers support the Leader via their own powers. Have THEM run Leadership, have Forcefields powers or wield Dark Miasma. This could serve as a total replacement of self-protection, and it would take the initiative away from the followers and put it back onto the leader where it belongs.

And pick a better inherent. Charisma is terrible both in terms of yield and in terms of character definition. We're building the Leader to be a proactive, aggressive individual who leads by example, and we give him a team-support role? I call foul. A Mastermind's inherent benefits his henchmen, because through them he operates. A Leader's inherent, therefore, should extract benefit from the henchmen. A Leader who stays with his followers has his personal offence increased, and followers who stay with their leader have their support improved. Say a follower has Radiation Infection. Away from his leader, the debuffs would be weak and unimpressive, but close to his leader, they could increase substantially.

Generally speaking, if we want to make a truly new AT, we can't follow the framework of existing pet ATs. A Leader needs to be built strong and sturdy on his own merits, with followers only serving to help. We need to step away from the preconception that a pet AT HAS to be weak and supportive to account for its having pets that do all the work. Indeed, we have to step away from the preconception that just the mere fact of HAVING pets means they WILL do all the work. Hell, slash all of the Leaders' pets' attacks, if you have to, but I want this leader to be proactive and in the thick of it, not worrying about playing Defender.

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