whats the must OP class now in game


Aett_Thorn

 

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Originally Posted by Luminara View Post
Except that they don't. We have examples of practically every AT soloing AVs and GMs with specific builds.
I think by 'practically every AT' you mean Controllers, Defenders, Corruptors and Masterminds. Please by all means do point me to a Scrapper, Brute, Tanker, Stalker, Dominator or Epic ATs who have solo'd GMs without temps or insps (and for the record, the only Blaster I know who has done it is me, and only a couple of them)

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We also have examples of every AT farming, across a wide variety of builds, and despite the rumormongering, Farm/Kin is not the best, at anything, it's simply the build which requires the least work and input. Farm/Kin is easy, not godlike.
I'm not talking about Fire/Kins as farmers, I'm talking about them as powerful toons who are able to destroy a full spawn of foes in seconds in most given scenarios; asuming these mobs are close together (like most spawns tend to be) and are not resistant to mezzes (very few mobs ingame are), be it in radio missions, arc missions or higher level TFs. Sure there are other ATs who can do this such as Scrappers (Spine/Dark) and Brutes (SS/Fire) but Controllers remain the pioneers and defacto build for AoE destruction. They also remain the most popular, for a reason.


 

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Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
Fire/Kins are not a class. It's fair to say there are specific primary/secondary builds that outperform their peers. I'd be careful to not make it sound like the entire ATs you listed universally outperform all other builds of all other ATs.
Which is why I said "with one combo or another"


 

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As others have said, there's no single overpowered class in CoH that can do pretty much everything really well. What it comes down to is what aspect of your character you want to be powerful - do you want to be good in a team, or on your own? Do you want to be great at fighting one incredibly tough foe, or mowing down hordes of weaker ones? Do you want to be unkillable, or do you want to have planet destroying levels of offense?

It's also dependant on how much inf you're willing to invest in the character - some builds are easy to make great, others take massive investment, but become hugely powerful.


 

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Originally Posted by joshx View Post
i enjoy understanding spells/skills in games
am no retard at playing games
i read and plan ahead, on a new mmo game am going to start
my mission is to see if you the vet players with all your years of playin
have any info as to help me find the must Powerful Primary/Secondary for defeating ever thing

also what defender you refer to that makes others in teams for pve godlike
whats that defender Primary/Secondary for that?
is it that
Radiation/Sonic Defender cill said
am seeking info for sake of Power ,

i desire power, OP, nerf demanding power,
when i find such class's in games, i tend to have the must fun i found,
am a exploiter at heart
I grin ear to ear when i found near godlike power and use it perfectly to own in a game

i understand more then anyone how a OP class in the wrong hands can be useless at best

i have a active imagination, and can see how spells./debuffs/healing all play out in my head, and once i found what works best by playing around in game
i exploit that power to the best of my ability

in this game, their so many choices, so much to look into, am hoping as a new player to get Very good info form you vets
Holy e.e. cummings post, Batman!


 

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I'm a big fan of Bots/Traps Masterminds. They start off slow, but by the time you hit level 32 you are mowing down just about anything. They also do very well without expensive crafted enhancements... many power sets can be great with enough investment, but unless you want to spend more time playing the market than you do actually fighting bad guys (or good guys, as the case may be) you'll need to play a long time (or keep playing a level 50 character for a moderate amount of time) before you can afford those fancy IOs. Masterminds are probably the best characters in the game with only basic enhancements, and Bots/Traps is one of the best Masterminds.

Heroside, I'd say go with a Regen or Willpower Scrapper (pretty much any primary) if you want a good solo character without expensive IOs. Plus once you do get those IOs, Scrappers tend to become extremely tough. For teaming, Defenders and Controllers are the way to go... they're painful to level up solo, but they massively boost a team's effectiveness and if you can afford to really trick them out some of them can solo almost anything.

My picks for the best powersets for a new player:

Villains
- Any Bots or Thugs Mastermind (/Traps and /Dark probably the top picks)
- Any Willpower Brute
- Fire / Rad Corruptors
- probably some Dominators, but I don't know enough about them to recommend one

Heroes
- Katana / Regen or Katana / Willpower Scrappers
- Fire / Kin or Fire / Rad Controllers
- Rad / Sonic Defenders
- Plant Controllers (you don't have the raw damage of Fire, but you have an AoE confuse that is usable every fight so you're pretty much immortal)

Blasters can be very good too but require expensive IOs to get good survivability. Illusion / Rad Controllers are unstoppable with unlimited inf builds, but you need about a billion influence to make one really good. Likewise, Storm Summoning can be very powerful but it's not a beginner friendly set... it's tricky to master and requires an expensive build to really get the most from it.

Of course if you just want to feel immortal, make a Stone or Willpower Tank. You won't do a ton of damage, but you'll stay standing when everyone else doesn't. If you also don't care about AoE damage, try a Shield / Dark Melee Tank... high defense, to-hit debuffs, and a nice melee heal means you pretty much don't die. You also don't kill things very fast (at least not without a high end build), but you don't die... Stone / Dark is probably the absolute toughest build in the game, but be prepared to either spend 2-3 billion influence on IOs or have time to go eat dinner before a fight ends if you try to solo. You'll still be alive when you get back from dinner though...


Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636

 

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i enjoy understanding spells/skills in games
am no retard at playing games
Lol.



Just lol.




They are called "powers," my friend. Powers.


Seven years of heroism. Seven years of friendships. Seven years of saving the world. Seven years of virtuous selflessness.

You will return, for you are the mighty City of Paragon, the City of Heroes.

 

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I feel like I must say something... but what?

I guess I just don't like those who seek the most OP'ed thing in the game, but if you succeed, I will be waiting with my popcorn to watch the nerf bat swing its mighty power on you.

But...If you want power, research, and look into +Damage IOs. If you can, look into -resist as well.

But really? You can only have fun by being OP? That just doesn't sound right...


 

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Originally Posted by joshx View Post
What Primary/Secondary is the must OP vs PVE content.
Team/Team, usually.

Spelling/Grammar is one of the most powerful vs. RL content, though.


 

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But for what it's worth, the most OP'd combinations for every AT in PvE are (IMO)

Fire/Ment or Arch/Ment Blaster
Fire/Rad, Fire/Kin or Illusion/Rad Controller
Rad/Sonic or Kin/Arch/(Psi) Defenders
Dark/Shield/(Blaze) or Spine/Elec Scrapper
WP/SS or Shield/Dark Tanker

SS/WP or Dark/Shield Brute
Fire/Rad Corruptor
Fire/Psi Dominator
Dark/Nin Stalker
Robotics/Traps Mastermind


 

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Fire/rad controlling is amazing, I prefer it to Ill/rad.


 

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"Able to defeat anything in the game" depends a bit on what you are trying to fight, Joshx.

If you want fast defeats of lots of minions and lts, which is ideal for farming lots of drops, the best combo is almost certainly a fire/kin controller. This is not an ideal character for soloing "hard" targets like AVs and Giant Monsters, though.

The best heroside combo for hard target soloing is probably Ill/Rad controller, there was one awhile back who soloed Lusca, who is essentially 9 Giant Monsters in one. It took them 6 hours or so, but I doubt theres another heroside AT who can do that. You already mentioned having a MM, which is the best villianside AT for hard targets.

And if you want the most powerful *team* aiding character for high end content like TFs and such, a rad/sonic defender or, with the right build, cold/sonic is probably best. Rad will tend to be more popular/well known, cold is arguably better with a really maxed out build, but check old defender forum threads for both sides of that debate, its fairly fine hairsplitting so I'd go play preference on that one. Flip that and make that a corruptor for villianside, as MMs don't tend to be popular on teams.


 

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Is it really necessary for everyone to take swings at him?


 

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Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
The best heroside combo for hard target soloing is probably Ill/Rad controller, there was one awhile back who soloed Lusca, who is essentially 9 Giant Monsters in one. It took them 6 hours or so, but I doubt theres another heroside AT who can do that. You already mentioned having a MM, which is the best villianside AT for hard targets.
Check the 'Defender' link on my sig, it took me about 2 hours and I didn't use any temps or insps


 

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Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
The best heroside combo for hard target soloing is probably Ill/Rad controller, there was one awhile back who soloed Lusca, who is essentially 9 Giant Monsters in one. It took them 6 hours or so, but I doubt theres another heroside AT who can do that.
I know someone who did it on a Rad/Psy Defender. He did use inspirations, but I think I can forgive that, given the achievement.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

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Keep in mind that many "over powered" builds will not FEEL overpowered until you've leveled them up AND invested signficant sums of money.

But once you do that, the admiration and respect just pours in.


 

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Originally Posted by Luminara View Post
s. As good as Rad/Sonic or Ill/Rad or similar builds are, they're still not the same thing as, for instance, WoW's warlock class (which, last time i played, was the most grossly overpowered class in the game, capable of soloing five person instances, something no other class could do (frost mages could come close, but without the healing factor that warlocks had, they still fell a little short)). And that's what the OP is looking for. It doesn't exist here.
lolwut?

You clearly have no idea about WoW.

The power scales between WoW and CoX are so wildly different as to be nearly incomparable.

In CoX you are THE Hero (villain). The very basis of the game is that you become an individual of such power that you can single handedly stop whole armies, ie be a Hero.

Not to say thats a bad thing. Just different.

WoW is a far more team orientated game simply because the classes are FAR more limited in abilities. Basically no class can solo any current endgame content with any hope of success. There is nothing to compare with the power of enchantments and IO sets.

When I want the feeling of community, of working as a team in contribution to effort much greater then myself I play WoW. If I want to the feeling or power, of wiping our hordes of enemies in a much more laid back atmosphere (wow is srs busns) I play CoX.

But make no mistake if they ATs in CoX were introduced into WoW they would absolutely dominate the others classes and the game content. The game was not designed to deal with such powerful and customizable PCs.


 

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Originally Posted by Max_zero View Post
lolwut?

You clearly have no idea about WoW.

The power scales between WoW and CoX are so wildly different as to be nearly incomparable.

In CoX you are THE Hero (villain). The very basis of the game is that you become an individual of such power that you can single handedly stop whole armies, ie be a Hero.

Not to say thats a bad thing. Just different.

WoW is a far more team orientated game simply because the classes are FAR more limited in abilities. Basically no class can solo any current endgame content with any hope of success. There is nothing to compare with the power of enchantments and IO sets.

When I want the feeling of community, of working as a team in contribution to effort much greater then myself I play WoW. If I want to the feeling or power, of wiping our hordes of enemies in a much more laid back atmosphere (wow is srs busns) I play CoX.

But make no mistake if they ATs in CoX were introduced into WoW they would absolutely dominate the others classes and the game content. The game was not designed to deal with such powerful and customizable PCs.
I'm pretty sure that Luminara's point wasn't that WoW's classes are more powerful than CoH's, but that in WoW, one class - the warlock - is (or was when she played it) so much better than the other classes, and that this type of discrepancy isn't present in CoH. Which is true, overall, CoH's ATs are reasonably well balanced: they're all damn powerful


 

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Originally Posted by PhroX View Post
I'm pretty sure that Luminara's point wasn't that WoW's classes are more powerful than CoH's, but that in WoW, one class - the warlock - is (or was when she played it) so much better than the other classes, and that this type of discrepancy isn't present in CoH. Which is true, overall, CoH's ATs are reasonably well balanced: they're all damn powerful
Its hard to explain to someone who does not play both games.

But here is an example.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...002065&sid=1#1

This is a link to a post containing the DPS comparisons in WoW in Naxx (one of the endgame instances).

Across all bosses this was the average DPS variation compared to the average of all the classes:

War - 7.3%
Mage - 5.3%
Hunter - 3.6%
Lock - 2.9%
DK - 2.4%
Sh - 0.0%
Ret - -2.4%
Rg - -4.8%
Pr - -5.5%
Dr - -7.0%

No class was 7.3% higher then the average or more then 7% below.

Classes were nerfed and buffed on variances such as this (not this specific data but internal Blizzard data). A class having a 7.3% DPS advantage over the average was considered far too OP.

This is WoW balance. Does this sound like the kind of game where characters spend large amounts of time be wildly more powerful then other classes?

Tanking classes with cry an endless stream of tears because their total damage mitigation is 3% lower then that of another tank. PvP'ers will complain if there class's Arena presence is more then 1-2% below the average.

This is a game where a 3% variation from the norm can make or break a class.


 

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Originally Posted by Max_zero View Post
This is WoW balance. Does this sound like the kind of game where characters spend large amounts of time be wildly more powerful then other classes?
This is WoW balance now. After every single class was pretty much redesigned from scratch. Repeatedly. It wasn't even remotely like that in WoW 1.0 or even in the first expansion.


 

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Originally Posted by Max_zero View Post
lolwut?

You clearly have no idea about WoW.
Level 70 human warlock (Montare) and level 70 dranei frost mage (Fallore), both on Scarlet Crusade. I quit playing almost two years ago, but I clearly do know what I'm talking about when I discuss WoW classes in comparison to Co* ATs. I played one of those overpowered warlocks capable of taking on four elites while my group pounded on the boss, and lived. On my frost mage, I watched my entire group eat dirt and was forced to fight five elites alone, and won.

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The power scales between WoW and CoX are so wildly different as to be nearly incomparable.
This has nothing to do with comparing Co* ATs directly to WoW classes. I made an analogy in order to explain a point.

In WoW, warlocks are considered a powerful class, with many stating that they are too powerful. One example of this is a warlock who soloed an end game five person instance (not a grossly out-leveled instance, such as you use to show DPS comparisons in your follow-up post, an actual level 70 end-game instance when the level cap was level 70), a feat which no-one else could accomplish at that time.

In Co*, we have no similar discrepancy in capability because all ATs can accomplish similar feats. It would be easier to count the specific number of builds which could not than it would be count those which could.

Do you understand now?


 

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I'm just gonna go ahead and say it...

I never really agreed with FOTM players. Why? Because most of them are only "good" because of their class. If they were to play any "normal" class most of them would be horrible, yet because they play the current god-mode class they think they're hot stuff when they really aren't.

Essentially I see it as earning something without really earning it, ya know?

Personally I believe most of the nerfs and buffs classes receive in every MMO are unnecessary, because they aren't adjusting class' strength, they're adjusting to individual player skill. You can never truly have perfect game balance in an MMO because everyone has different levels of playing skill, and for most players instead of accepting the fact that they just suck at the class they've chosen to play they blame the class itself and cry at other classes for being "OP" and for their class sucking, when in actuality it's them that's the problem.

Someone mentioned the warlock class from WoW. I played WoW for 3 years. I played it back before any expansion, and I have never thought the warlock class was OP. Why? Because instead of whining about it on the forums and yelling for nerfs or rerolling one as all the "FOTM" players did I actually determined why they were considered OP and found a way to counteract that strength. I'd wager that if more players had taken that path instead of crying to the devs then a lot of the buffs/nerfs classes received would never have needed to be done, or would have been done to a lesser degree.

Anyway, this is starting to turn into a rant so I'll just end it at that. It's just that this is one of the topics I've always had a very heated opinion about.


 

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Originally Posted by Luminara View Post
Level 70 human warlock (Montare) and level 70 dranei frost mage (Fallore), both on Scarlet Crusade. I quit playing almost two years ago, but I clearly do know what I'm talking about when I discuss WoW classes in comparison to Co* ATs. I played one of those overpowered warlocks capable of taking on four elites while my group pounded on the boss, and lived. On my frost mage, I watched my entire group eat dirt and was forced to fight five elites alone, and won.



This has nothing to do with comparing Co* ATs directly to WoW classes. I made an analogy in order to explain a point.

In WoW, warlocks are considered a powerful class, with many stating that they are too powerful. One example of this is a warlock who soloed an end game five person instance (not a grossly out-leveled instance, such as you use to show DPS comparisons in your follow-up post, an actual level 70 end-game instance when the level cap was level 70), a feat which no-one else could accomplish at that time.

In Co*, we have no similar discrepancy in capability because all ATs can accomplish similar feats. It would be easier to count the specific number of builds which could not than it would be count those which could.

Do you understand now?
The post I linked too was lvl 80 Naxx. You wouldn't know about since it came a year after you quit. >.>

How many ATs can solo Lusca? Do you judge all ATs by that measurement?

Why can't all AT solo GMs?

IMBALANCE! IMBALANCE!

You act like 5 mans mattered. Just like CoX isn't balanced who can solo GMs, WoW isn't balanced around who can solo non heroic 5 mans.

How far did you solo in Kara? In the Arena?


 

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Most of the alts discussed aren't so much overowered as better equiped to deal with certain tasks.

Fire/Kin - great farmers due to AoE damage (hotfeet, cages) and Fulcram shift. Weak against strong single targets so IMO balanced.

Ill/Rad - great at grinding down hard single targets using pets and debuffs. Little AoE damage so bad farmers - balanced.

Going through the list most if not all are like this.

If I was going to name a couple of alts that are potentialy overpwered I'd say Fire/Shield Brutes and Scrappers.

Good survivablilty
Good AoE damage (Shield Charge adds to this)
Good Single target damage.

One of theses IO'd can farm, solo AV's as well as survive high level spawns.

Other */Shield could do the same and probalby be better at certain tasks but I think Fire would have the edge across the board.


L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR

Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller

 

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Do your own legwork dude.

We can tell you what the FOTM combos are all day, but if none of them mesh with your playstyle you're going to suck.

I play scrappers, I have a Spines/Fire, supposedly one of the best farming builds in the game. If that's true, why is my Broadsword/Dark Armor better at it?

My Fire/Fire blaster should be my best blaster by normal convention....but my Sonic/Devices blows it away.

Nothing in the game will kill everything with ease, some ATs do very well in some situations and horrible in others. My aforementioned scrapper can do the RWZ Challenge with no worries, but he has trouble on Invincible ITFs (which technically no longer exist).

My Sonic/Devices blaster can solo an AV, but large groups area headache for him (he's not in any more danger, it just takes longer to kill them with all ST attacks)

In short, play what sounds like fun and make your OWN OP character.

My most overpowered are my BS/DA scrapper and Sonic/Devices blaster. If you were to ask, no one will tell you they are overpowered, or FOTMs. But MY BS/DA and Sonic/Devices are that good.

I just took what I had and MADE it good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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Weak against strong single targets so IMO balanced.
I think you give way too much credit to the average fire/kin player. It's a great combination for farming so lots of bad players flock to it and make the combo look bad, but it actually has lots of potential for AV soloing as well as general play.

I mean look at the fire/kin builds posted in the controller forum. Most of them skip ring of fire and leave char 1-slotted (or slot it with a hold set), of course such a build is going to have poor ST damage. It's the controller equivalent to trying to make a DM scrapper AV soloer using only Shadow Maul and Flurry.