Making a backup CD... is this legal?
By
AwesomusPrime,
Posted on: 2009-09-16 18:00 in Player Questions
CoH won't fit on a single CD, but it will fit on a DVD. Considering there's been a guide on the forums for quite a long time on how to do that, I really doubt NCSoft cares... especially since anyone can download CoH from their ftp servers... probably long as you don't sell it, they won't care 
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Whatever I have to use, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't unintentionally breaking the law. =P
Thanks for the info.
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since it's for personal use I don't see why not, but I would recomend using a writeable DVD to fit everything in except screenshots is at least 2 Gigs and Personally I would also include with that a copy of Herostats and Mid's
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Originally Posted by Desi_Nova
since it's for personal use I don't see why not, but I would recomend using a writeable DVD to fit everything in except screenshots is at least 2 Gigs and Personally I would also include with that a copy of Herostats and Mid's
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The client can be freely distributed. since you can't actually play the game without paying for an account, it is perfectly fine to make copies of the client and even send them to friends.
I have mine on a thumb drive. Around 2.8GB.
And since the game is freely downloadable, I don't see a problem.
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And even if they did attempt to claim otherwise, it would still be perfectly legal due to a thing called fair use. No matter what any imaginary property owners may claim, you always have the right to back up any media that you legally acquired.
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Originally Posted by Weatherby Goode
The client can be freely distributed. since you can't actually play the game without paying for an account, it is perfectly fine to make copies of the client...
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Correct. Even if we had to pay to obtain the game client, making a backup would be legal. The only time "backups" become a problem is when the thing you're backing up isn't free to obtain, and you try to distribute it (for free or for money)
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Originally Posted by Willowpaw
And even if they did attempt to claim otherwise, it would still be perfectly legal due to a thing called fair use. No matter what any imaginary property owners may claim, you always have the right to back up any media that you legally acquired.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Not if you have to circumvent any DRM. Under the DMCA that is illegal.|
Originally Posted by Willowpaw
And even if they did attempt to claim otherwise, it would still be perfectly legal due to a thing called fair use. No matter what any imaginary property owners may claim, you always have the right to back up any media that you legally acquired.
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edit: I don't agree with the law, I think it's total ********. Just throwing that out there
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That's why you should never buy anything that's DRM!! I purchased the final season of Battlestar Galactica from Zune I wanted to play it on my portable player but because my player isn't Zune compatible I was unable to do so. Stay away from DRM. If no one buys it guess what? They will quit making it.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Not if you have to circumvent any DRM. Under the DMCA that is illegal.
edit: I don't agree with the law, I think it's total ********. Just throwing that out there |
I agree, I avoid buying products with DRM when there is an acceptable alternative. However, I also ignore the DMCA's DRM policy. For example, when I bought Call of Duty 4 the first thing I did was download a crack so I no longer had to have the disc in the drive.
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Seeing as how the client is essentially free to download, I can't see how this wouldn't be legal.|
Originally Posted by Smash_Zone
So, long story short, I got a nasty computer virus and I'm going to wipe windows soon. Before I do the wipe, I wanted to grab a couple of things from my computer first to keep so they aren't lost entirely.
Now, City of Heroes is obviously a big thing to just copy over, so I wanted to copy my entire City of Heroes game folder onto a CD for later use, so I don't have to go through with installing all the patches all over again. Is copying the game to a CD legal? It's for personal use only so I can start off with all the neat Issue 16 goodies. My current City of Heroes CD is old-ish, and is only up to Issue 8. With the backup CD, I won't have to wait for the obnoxiously slow CoH updater to download Issues 9 through 16. |
You'll be fine. We won't tell anyone.
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That is the second best way to "cope" with laws concerning digital restrictions management policies. It may be technically illegal to circumvent the restrictions in order to exercise your rights, but so what? As long as you aren't redistributing, what are they going to do? Raid your home to confiscate anything you may have backed up against their wishes?|
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I agree, I avoid buying products with DRM when there is an acceptable alternative. However, I also ignore the DMCA's DRM policy.
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Are there seriously people who will absolutely refuse to exercise their fair use rights and instead just "cower in the corner" and do nothing because "the law says I can't do this. And the law is the law"? Personally, I suspect that the ones in threads like this who just keep parroting over and over that "you can't do that because it is illegal" are simply playing D-Bag's advocate. Not calling out anyone here specifically, but I have seen plenty of these discussions elsewhere, and am pretty convinced that the ones touting the letter of the law truly don't believe what they are arguing.
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Just jumping in to link to the excellent guide|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Considering there's been a guide on the forums for quite a long time on how to do that
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Bill Z Bubba's Guide for Moving CoH or Installing Test
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Reference, please?|
Originally Posted by Willowpaw
No matter what any imaginary property owners may claim, you always have the right to back up any media that you legally acquired.
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According to the U.S. Copyright Office, making archive copies of computer software does not violate copyright, but that does not apply to other digital works. Also, the software's creators may still forbid backups as part of their usage license, so the fact that it is not a copyright violation may be irrelevant.
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They can claim "No backing up" until they are blue in the face. That does not actually trump the rights granted by federal copyright law. I believe the relevant section is 117...|
Originally Posted by Corebreach
Reference, please?
According to the U.S. Copyright Office, making archive copies of computer software does not violate copyright, but that does not apply to other digital works. Also, the software's creators may still forbid backups as part of their usage license, so the fact that it is not a copyright violation may be irrelevant. |
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§ 117. Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs53 (a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy. Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided: (1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or (2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful. (b) Lease, Sale, or Other Transfer of Additional Copy or Adaptation. Any exact copies prepared in accordance with the provisions of this section may be leased, sold, or otherwise transferred, along with the copy from which such copies were prepared, only as part of the lease, sale, or other transfer of all rights in the program. Adaptations so prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner. (c) Machine Maintenance or Repair. Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner or lessee of a machine to make or authorize the making of a copy of a computer program if such copy is made solely by virtue of the activation of a machine that lawfully contains an authorized copy of the computer program, for purposes only of maintenance or repair of that machine, if (1) such new copy is used in no other manner and is destroyed immediately after the maintenance or repair is completed; and (2) with respect to any computer program or part thereof that is not necessary for that machine to be activated, such program or part thereof is not accessed or used other than to make such new copy by virtue of the activation of the machine. (d) Definitions. For purposes of this section (1) the maintenance of a machine is the servicing of the machine in order to make it work in accordance with its original specifications and any changes to those specifications authorized for that machine; and (2) the repair of a machine is the restoring of the machine to the state of working in accordance with its original specifications and any changes to those specifications authorized for that machine. |
I'm sure there is precedent for other works as well. But that will take a bit of extensive digging, and it is way too late at night for me to engage in such a hunt.
Judging by your avatar I assume you're Canadian, and here in Canada we still have the right to make an archival copy of any media we legally hold a licenses to use. The method whereby we make that copy is not policed.
While this game software is free, and therefore cannot be stolen, this is an important piece of info about your rights for the future.
The more you know************
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Isn't it great to be a Canadian God I love our country! where downlaods are just called file sharing and as long as no money is had we are in no chance of being in any trouble.
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Originally Posted by AwesomusPrime
Judging by your avatar I assume you're Canadian, and here in Canada we still have the right to make an archival copy of any media we legally hold a licenses to use. The method whereby we make that copy is not policed.
While this game software is free, and therefore cannot be stolen, this is an important piece of info about your rights for the future. The more you know************ |
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No chance of getting in trouble for now. But I promise you entertainment lobbyists are trying to change that in your country as well as the rest of the world, so make sure you pay attention to bills proposed so your rights don't get taken away.|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
Isn't it great to be a Canadian God I love our country! where downlaods are just called file sharing and as long as no money is had we are in no chance of being in any trouble.
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The worst thing any of us can do, regardless of our home country, is not pay attention to the greedy lying lobbyists, politicians, and entertainment executives. Because if we ignore these issues, things will not possibly work out in our best interests.
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Just keep in mind that the DMCA makes it illegal to break DRM in software and hardware, regardless of the reason(meaning even if you're not infringing copyright). Again, I think it's B.S., but I feel people should know then make their own decision if they want to follow that law or not(I ignore it myself as I've already stated).
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Originally Posted by Willowpaw
They can claim "No backing up" until they are blue in the face. That does not actually trump the rights granted by federal copyright law. I believe the relevant section is 117...
I am not seeing anything there that grants the copyright owner authorization to override the rights granted to the rightful user of the software to make a backup. I'm sure there is precedent for other works as well. But that will take a bit of extensive digging, and it is way too late at night for me to engage in such a hunt. |
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I agree that under the Fair Use doctrine of the Copyright Law, back-ups of software are allowed for proper use of the software, assuming the backup can be performed without breaching the DMCA. However, most software is also subject to a license in addition to copyright. In the license, the publisher can choose to prohibit backups. Enforcement may be another thing, but legally, the publisher can put that prohibition into the license contract. Most of the time it would be a dumb thing to do as there are technical ways to add protection and the inconvenience to the user would be high, but it could be done.|
Originally Posted by Willowpaw
They can claim "No backing up" until they are blue in the face. That does not actually trump the rights granted by federal copyright law. I believe the relevant section is 117...
I am not seeing anything there that grants the copyright owner authorization to override the rights granted to the rightful user of the software to make a backup. I'm sure there is precedent for other works as well. But that will take a bit of extensive digging, and it is way too late at night for me to engage in such a hunt. |
(and yeah, I'm a lawyer.)
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Yeah, legally, they can make any claim they want. Still does not make it valid. And my final thought on this matter was something I realized as I was drifting off to sleep last night.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
In the license, the publisher can choose to prohibit backups. Enforcement may be another thing, but legally, the publisher can put that prohibition into the license contract. Most of the time it would be a dumb thing to do as there are technical ways to add protection and the inconvenience to the user would be high, but it could be done.
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If any claims of "no backing up" were valid and enforceable, then every time you backed up your hard drive (whether by imaging or any other means), then you would be in violation.
Anyway, this has been an interesting discussion, and a big thanks to everyone for keeping it civil (let's keep it that way... SNACKCAKE!!!)
So, long story short, I got a nasty computer virus and I'm going to wipe windows soon. Before I do the wipe, I wanted to grab a couple of things from my computer first to keep so they aren't lost entirely.
Now, City of Heroes is obviously a big thing to just copy over, so I wanted to copy my entire City of Heroes game folder onto a CD for later use, so I don't have to go through with installing all the patches all over again.
Is copying the game to a CD legal? It's for personal use only so I can start off with all the neat Issue 16 goodies. My current City of Heroes CD is old-ish, and is only up to Issue 8. With the backup CD, I won't have to wait for the obnoxiously slow CoH updater to download Issues 9 through 16.
Arc ID: 348998 - Becoming a villain
Arc ID: 373341 - To Save a Hero
Got Inf?