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Pwn'd. by reality.
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Originally Posted by Stray Kitten
Notice, you still have complete control over the content. What they never said one way or the other was whether you would have control over how much experience anything gave.
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I run my demon farm set at 0/8 and generally have to visit the stores to sell salvage/recipes/enhs after each run. |
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
You won't notice anything different if you're solo and haven't adjusted the perceived team number, or if you've got actual teammates. People running solo with their diff set on anything higher than the default are seeing way less recipes (salvage and inspirations are dropping fine) than they should.
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I see no borked drop rate at all.
Maybe those who do believe its borked are just running crappy farms/missions.
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Here is the thread that's dealing with the borked drop rates. If what you say is true, you're an odd case. Personally, I never got a ton of recipe drops, outside of common IOs, before I16 anyway. I've not done anything but regular mishes since the new issue and have noticed a few less recipes than normal, but nothing to scream about. YMMV
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Originally Posted by War_Admiral
I run my demon farm set at 0/8 and generally have to visit the stores to sell salvage/recipes/enhs after each run.
I see no borked drop rate at all. Maybe those who do believe its borked are just running crappy farms/missions. |
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
No, I've found the same thing. Running my Nemesis map set for +0/x8 gives me full recipes most times. Setting for +2/x8 I'm lucky to get 4 recipes. This is consistently the case. Upping my difficulty resulting in vastly decreased drops = borked. Crappy farms my ***.
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With the screwed drops, there seems to be something involved more than just an across the board drop rate decrease. According to the datamining that Synapse ran, the drop rates are where they were pre-i16, but according to the data gathered by the players the drops are terribly low (several orders of magnitude in some cases). That being said, the consensus seems to be that there's something going on causing some people to get higher than average drop rates, while some get lower than average. The problem is pinpointing some sort of specific cause.
For those of you not following the thread that WHF linked to, I just wanted to report that the drop bug was found, and a fix should be pushed to test "fairly soon."
So no, there was no conspiracy to nerf the drops, the dev's don't hate us, and Christmas wasn't ruined.
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A few of Synapse's posts regarding drop rates being off:|
Originally Posted by War_Admiral
I run my demon farm set at 0/8 and generally have to visit the stores to sell salvage/recipes/enhs after each run.
I see no borked drop rate at all. Maybe those who do believe its borked are just running crappy farms/missions. |
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Originally Posted by Synapse
I just wanted to let you know you can probably stop recording data, a fix for this should be making its way to the training room fairly soon. Your drop analysis there, when this patch hits the training room, would be very useful. Thanks for everyone's diligence, and believe it or not the bug had nothing to do with team size, what map you were on, whether you were in taskforce mode or not or anything else mentioned in this thread.
Regards, Synapse |
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Originally Posted by Synapse
Not this either. I think it would be best if Pohsyb explained it. Sounds like an old bug that appeared to somehow manifest in I16. Personally, I blame it on code gnomes. They're up to no good, it's just their nature.
Synapse PS: I love the tags on this thread. They've made me laugh, boggle and shake my head. "devs dont care"  Not true! "devs dont care" okay, that's better. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Not the brightest bulb in the pack hey?
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Originally Posted by Dinah Might
Are you serious? What exactly do you base this statement on? Do you have ANY proof at all that this is true? ANY.
AE is not dead. I still get tells ALL THE TIME asking to join AE teams from random unknown people. And not much went into making it? Wow. That statement only enforces the believe that you don't know ****. |
So what I get from Synapse's posts is that if you're in Oro mode the drops are fine, but if you run those old kept farms in your mission lists you'll see decreases.
Kudos to the dev's that worked to sort this out and to everyone that supplied data. Glad this is getting fixed.
I do wonder what was causing it though. My testing seemed to be showing that for +0 and +1 x8 I got almost normal drop rates (15ish versus prei16 20ish) but +2/x8 gave me vastly reduced ones (like 3-5 instead of 20ish)
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It is true. Your not.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Not the brightest bulb in the pack hey?
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naem calling on webz
i haz not herd of b4
unpossibl-ble
thug haikooz 4 life
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Here's the skinny from Pohsyb:|
Originally Posted by Silas
I do wonder what was causing it though. My testing seemed to be showing that for +0 and +1 x8 I got almost normal drop rates (15ish versus prei16 20ish) but +2/x8 gave me vastly reduced ones (like 3-5 instead of 20ish)
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This was caused by an uninitialized variable, in this case specifically it was a structure declared locally when awarding a drop table. About four function calls deeper, something was using a member of that structure to determine if you were fighting something grey (no drop). Uninitialized variables can be anything, but often have tendency to be zero, which would not cause a problem (actually any positive value would not matter). This bug as been in since Issue 9 and was not caused by specifically by anything related to I16 (Whenever code is changed the tendencies of uninitialized variables can change). I suspect the changes made with I16 caused drop rates to be closely scrutinized. |
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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I would call any nemesis farm crappy....but that's just me. |
Originally Posted by Silas
No, I've found the same thing. Running my Nemesis map set for +0/x8 gives me full recipes most times. Setting for +2/x8 I'm lucky to get 4 recipes. This is consistently the case. Upping my difficulty resulting in vastly decreased drops = borked. Crappy farms my ***.
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Glad you notice the drop rates differ at certain difficulty settings tho. If you're farming anything higher than lvl 50s, I would question your knowledge of farming mechanics....especially solo. :P
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Edit: I'm feeling generous so I'll respond properly to this. |
Originally Posted by War_Admiral
If you're farming anything higher than lvl 50s, I would question your knowledge of farming mechanics....especially solo. :P
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For one, villainside Nemesis farms are really your only option. Unfortunate compared to the hilarious glut of maps you can run heroside, but there it is.
For two, given the PSW changes the best villainside farmer is now unquestionably a brute. This means most farmers will be killing their mans by stomping. Now, with Rage and Fury in the mix, would you like to know what the difference is in how many Footstomps it takes to kill +0s versus +2s? Zero. Armageddon procced minions die in the first, rest of them and lts will be dying in the second and third if you have to. Bosses take the same amount of ST attacks to go down too.
I've timed myself running 8man Villainous and 8man Relentless (this was pre-SRSLY) and the time difference was about two minutes. On a map that was taking about 45 minutes to clear. But the cash difference is significant.
The only reason I ever run on +0 is because I'm feeling lazy and don't want to have to pay the tiniest bit of attention.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you farm with your firekin thats in your sig? For a Fire/Kin (or a dom, for that matter) the difference in level can make a big difference to killspeed/ease. This is not the case for a brute. If your only expertise is in one specific kind of farming I would suggest you not speak with authority on all kinds.
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Nemesis farms arnt the ONLY option...|
Originally Posted by Silas
For one, villainside Nemesis farms are really your only option. Unfortunate compared to the hilarious glut of maps you can run heroside, but there it is.
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Theres a scientist farm in GV thats ALOT better then the stacked vengence that accompanies Nemesis'...
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Originally Posted by Silas
For two, given the PSW changes the best villainside farmer is now unquestionably a brute.
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Originally Posted by Silas
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you farm with your firekin thats in your sig? For a Fire/Kin (or a dom, for that matter) the difference in level can make a big difference to killspeed/ease. This is not the case for a brute. If your only expertise is in one specific kind of farming I would suggest you not speak with authority on all kinds.
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Your proc's do less dmg, your attacks do less dmg and they have more health...
So...How is it you can kill at the same speed with these extra factors?
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On the bit about the scientist farm...it sucks. I thought it would be easier on my brute due to lack of veng, they stack their earth attacks like crazy, debuffing defense to -40, debuffing tohit, and mezzing through mez protection VERY easily with stacked holds and immobs. I still think nem are far better...especially since they are already herded into nice tight groups, a brute and a kin can solo this map at lvl 54 with bosses easily.
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Originally Posted by Bud
Nemesis farms arnt the ONLY option...
Theres a scientist farm in GV thats ALOT better then the stacked vengence that accompanies Nemesis'... I'll agree with this, i've never played a farm dom but i've seen em in action and brutes do kill slightly quicker now. I have a fire/kin and a ss/sd brute and I can say with absolute certainty that increasing the difficulty will slow you down on both toons... Your proc's do less dmg, your attacks do less dmg and they have more health... So...How is it you can kill at the same speed with these extra factors? |
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Well, while Scientists are definitely an option, in large groups they can be troublesome. My lts were earth/ff and more than 2-3 at a time could break my mez protection and their stacking Dispersion bubbles made them really hard to hit. |
Originally Posted by Bud
Nemesis farms arnt the ONLY option...
Theres a scientist farm in GV thats ALOT better then the stacked vengence that accompanies Nemesis'... I'll agree with this, i've never played a farm dom but i've seen em in action and brutes do kill slightly quicker now. I have a fire/kin and a ss/sd brute and I can say with absolute certainty that increasing the difficulty will slow you down on both toons... Your proc's do less dmg, your attacks do less dmg and they have more health... So...How is it you can kill at the same speed with these extra factors? |
The thing that's important to note about Nemesis Vengeance is that it does not grant AoE defense. So whatever AoE you're spamming to wipe out the spawns is going to hit just fine.
The only time the Vengeance is an issue is with 2 spawns close together so you end up with a quadruple or quintuple Vengeance'd Fake. That can get nasty, but happens rarely enough to not be an issue.
The reason my killspeed hardly slows down with +2s is because I'm doing enough damage with my AoEs that I don't need to do another cycle of them regardless of whether the enemies are 50s or 52s. 2-3 Footstomps with Ball Lightning in the mix is enough to wipe out a spawn. Only when you get to +3s do I need up to 4 Footstomps to kill all the mins/lts.
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1. I spoke about my Demon farm...which is blue side. I really don't care about whats farmable red side. If you farm nemesis red side....great, have at it. I'll still stick to the fact I THINK nemesis farms suck.
2. Do 52s drop purples faster than 50? If not, then its pointless to farm anything higher than 50s IMO regardless if you're able to drop them just as fast. (Yes, I know I could farm my farms at -1 to give 49s....and I do at times). I farm for purple recipes....nothing else. Anything I get outside of purples is just extra.
3. I have many toons I farm with and not just my fire/kin. My sig doesnt include all my current 50s.
Personally I like 51s over 50s for the reasons
1) that they arent really that much stronger (minions still drop in 2 AoEs)
2) minions award 50% more influence compared to 50s (1700 to 2600)
3) there is no reason 3
4) when assisting with leveling up others, it goes faster
Tanker Tuesday #72 Oct 5 @Champion
"I am not sure if my portrayal of being insane is accurate, but damn its fun all the same."
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Better late than never I guess. I just dont get to read these forums as often as Id like. So if you are a better player, then perhaps a contest to prove it? Ie put your money where your mouth is.
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Originally Posted by Cobalt_Azurean
Keep the streak alive.
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I'll get right on that.
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Originally Posted by GuessWhosBack
Better late than never I guess. I just dont get to read these forums as often as Id like. So if you are a better player, then perhaps a contest to prove it? Ie put your money where your mouth is.
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"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
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Originally Posted by GuessWhosBack
Better late than never I guess. I just dont get to read these forums as often as Id like. So if you are a better player, then perhaps a contest to prove it? Ie put your money where your mouth is.
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If it's mouthing off then we already have a winner. (looks at OP)
Current favs: Champ: Frau Schmeterling-22 MM 50s: NOTW-Blaster, Cat-Girl Commando-corr, Queen of the Dawn-PB, NOTW-Def, Peterbilt-Brute, IcedTNA-Tank, Archilies-scrap, Mann Eater-stalk, Redemptive Soul-toller, Mt Fuji of A-Team-Tank, Hot Stuff Vale-Dom
My MiniCity
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Go back to the 5th-grade playground with your dares, Nobody Cares Who's Back.
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Originally Posted by GuessWhosBack
Better late than never I guess. I just dont get to read these forums as often as Id like. So if you are a better player, then perhaps a contest to prove it? Ie put your money where your mouth is.
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"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
AE is not dead. I still get tells ALL THE TIME asking to join AE teams from random unknown people.
And not much went into making it? Wow. That statement only enforces the believe that you don't know ****.