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I have an SD/SS tank, an Invy/SS tank and a SS/Inv brute that all use Rage regularly and up until reading this post I wasn't even aware of the defense crash. That should give you an idea of how hard it is to deal with it. Of course I usually switch from damage dealing attacks to any AoE soft controls that I have available until the Rage crash dissipates so that may be a good way of handling the crash. They can't attack you if they're on their butts or stumbling around like drunken house cats.|
Originally Posted by Psiphon_EU
Yikes!!
When I first looked at the Shield/SS combo it looked like a match made in heaven, however I didn't look too deeply at Rage beyond the benefits. I didn't realise that there was a 20% def crash and that's a full 20% not 20% of your existing defence Is Shield/SS not such a good idea, I imagine it's a popular combo, how do others deal with the def crash? At the high end will it be a bit gimp? |
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
The defense debuff does not happen if rage is stacked.
I have an ice/SS and really don't worry about the Rage crash.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Don't worry about the defense loss from the crash, worry about 1/5th or 1/4th of your end bar going poof instead. Especially if you, yanno, actually wanna attack stuff.
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Originally Posted by Psiphon_EU
Yikes!!
When I first looked at the Shield/SS combo it looked like a match made in heaven, however I didn't look too deeply at Rage beyond the benefits. I didn't realise that there was a 20% def crash and that's a full 20% not 20% of your existing defence Is Shield/SS not such a good idea, I imagine it's a popular combo, how do others deal with the def crash? At the high end will it be a bit gimp? |
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Thanks for the info guys.
Good news that you can negate the Defence crash - I'd have re-rolled otherwise.
When you stack Rage does the damage buff stack also?
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Given the benefits that Rage offers I've got no issues with this, a little bit of End managent is all that's required.|
Originally Posted by Godlike_NA
Don't worry about the defense loss from the crash, worry about 1/5th or 1/4th of your end bar going poof instead. Especially if you, yanno, actually wanna attack stuff.
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My Defence crashing from 45% to 25% however...............
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
A ten second crash isnt going to kill my tank. and if they are flopping on their back after my foot stomp thats less time for them to kill me...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Defence crash? Not a problem. Damage crash? Hella annoying. End crash? Sometimes deadly.
Rage in a nutshell.
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Originally Posted by Psiphon_EU
When you stack Rage does the damage buff stack also?
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The damage buff will stack until one of the rage's wears off. You will then still get the damage debuff from the rage crash, flooring your damage for a bit, before the continuing rage damage bonus kicks back in.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I know purples are not the easiest to come by - but I recently slotted footstomp with armageddon*5 (inc proc) and the force feedback chance for recharge on my shield/ss/pyre.
Not only only do I get the yummy set bonuses of the purple set but with the armageddon 33% chance of fire dmg footstomp often does significant damage during rage crash as the procs aren't affected.
I got lucky though and had some drop - so it didnt cost me as much as it would paying full price.
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Is that anything like a storm in a teacup? |
Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly
Rage in a nutshell.
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
My SD/SS Tanker is my favorite tanker and easily one of my favorite characters. Out of all characters I've ever had, I got him to 50 the fastest (without powerleveling, that is). It was a struggle in the beginning but got a lot more fun after Shield Charge and even more so after Foot Stomp.
Worst problem is easily end management. Defense is more than adequate, and with a little IO investment it becomes quite a strong Tank with very good damage. Might have to respec out of Stone Mastery now that there's that new +reg/rec power in Energy Mastery.
I recently rolled a Shield/SS. My intention was to put Active Defense on auto, and put Rage on the same button I typically use for Build Up, then hit Rage whenever I stop doing damage.
If I do it this way, will activating Rage during the crash still nullify the -Def, or do I need to get a little more recharge, and hit Rage before it crashes?
@Roderick
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If you hit Rage before the crash, it never hits you to begin with. If you use Rage again during the crash, it will eliminate it. If you're worried about survivability, it's best to use it before the crash to stop it entirely. Luckily, it doesn't take much extra +rech to do this. If you have 95% rech in Rage, it would take less than 15% global rech to allow you to fire it before it crashes consistently. (Assuming no rech debuffs, of course.)
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Originally Posted by Roderick
I recently rolled a Shield/SS. My intention was to put Active Defense on auto, and put Rage on the same button I typically use for Build Up, then hit Rage whenever I stop doing damage.
If I do it this way, will activating Rage during the crash still nullify the -Def, or do I need to get a little more recharge, and hit Rage before it crashes? |
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OK, so with 4 sets of Crushing Impact in my final build, I'll be able to get enough recharge to hit it early.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
If you hit Rage before the crash, it never hits you to begin with. If you use Rage again during the crash, it will eliminate it. If you're worried about survivability, it's best to use it before the crash to stop it entirely. Luckily, it doesn't take much extra +rech to do this. If you have 95% rech in Rage, it would take less than 15% global rech to allow you to fire it before it crashes consistently. (Assuming no rech debuffs, of course.)
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I wasn't too worried about the crash, since I'll have high resists and near-capped HP, I was mostly curious if hitting Rage during the -def period would end that debuff prematurely. Sounds like it will. Thanks.
@Roderick
monitoring my damage output, I see it go -9999 in the red for ten seconds.
ten seconds of not being able to swing.
Add the hasten crash to that and its one diabetic powerset.
ouch to the end.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Not exactly. You will want to concentrate on light endurance usage powers (brawl, taunt, kick, boxing, Jab), attacks with damage procs (proc damage is unaffected by Rage -damage crash), attacks with mitigation (KB, KD, Stun, Hold as these will still work as normal), and Vet Temp powers (Blackwand, Nem Staff, Sands of MU and the Axe as these do not suffer from Rage -damage crash). Since Brawl and Taunt are endurance free, these 2 are your best bet if your blue bar is low.
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
ten seconds of not being able to swing.
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On the stated SD/SS Tanker, I tend to use those 10 seconds to round up more enemies to nuke with Shield Charge and Footstomp once the Rage crash wears off. After all, the change to Rage was entirely to allow Tankers to continue to manage aggro while giving a penalty to them for the damage boost they get.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Body
Not exactly. You will want to concentrate on light endurance usage powers (brawl, taunt, kick, boxing, Jab), attacks with damage procs (proc damage is unaffected by Rage -damage crash), attacks with mitigation (KB, KD, Stun, Hold as these will still work as normal), and Vet Temp powers (Blackwand, Nem Staff, Sands of MU and the Axe as these do not suffer from Rage -damage crash). Since Brawl and Taunt are endurance free, these 2 are your best bet if your blue bar is low.
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As for clicking before the Rage crash, that's something I rarely do--only in situations where I think that I will be in immediate danger if I get one unlucky hit (i.e. Sappers are around). In normal situations, waiting for the Rage crash to hit before using Rage again increases Rage's length of effectiveness before the next crash, which is both more damage and endurance efficient. After all, you're a Tanker--likely with soft-capped defences outside of the crash--you're probably going to be able to take a good number of hits before going down anyway, even with only 20% defence or so.
The longer you can wait before stacking Rage, the better (for defensive purposes). I tend not to Rage stack with my SD/SS, more due to endurance limitations than anything. Plus, AAO whittles away a good portion of what could be gotten from Rage stacking for damage.
Anyone who remembers the original rage can tell you, 20% def crash that can be completly negated is nothing to worry about at all.
Yikes!!
When I first looked at the Shield/SS combo it looked like a match made in heaven, however I didn't look too deeply at Rage beyond the benefits.
I didn't realise that there was a 20% def crash and that's a full 20% not 20% of your existing defence
Is Shield/SS not such a good idea, I imagine it's a popular combo, how do others deal with the def crash?
At the high end will it be a bit gimp?
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller