I'm all for this, I can say that much.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
|
This, all of it, would make for a better game.
Quote:
Yes - I almost hate starting low level villains, because it's the same-old, same old. Though, <nitpick,> it's each origin, not archetype. |
Originally Posted by Xp3ndable
1) Have a new landing zone in the Isles (much like Galaxy City), and have more contacts than just Kalinda and Burke. Even the hero's have a contact for every Archtype. |
Quote:
| 2) Have more options for low level heros to follow. Galaxy City seems to be painfully underpopulated, possibly because ther is more access to the low heroes basic needs in Atlas. |
The reason Atlas is more crowded - and that you find more "other stuff" there - is inertia. You went there for SG registration. You went there for costume contests. It became a *social* hub. Since the 50s were there, it got the RV entrance. And Vanguard, and a Wentworth's.
That said, I'm certainly not against the idea of refreshing low level content blueside, as well.
SG Registrar was also in GC.
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
Quote:
Wasn't that a later addition, though? I remember Jack Wolfe being there for the respec contact, but not the registrar for some time. That's pretty much what I did in Galaxy - starting contacts (especially for the Warshade) and turning in and using an earned respec, and having to head to Atlas to start the various SGs. |
Originally Posted by Dalantia
SG Registrar was also in GC.
|
If I'm remembering wrong, no biggie. *shrug* I just remember only being able to do so in Atlas.
I believe it was always there, actually. Just way off to the side, behind those big counters, and easy to miss.
I could be wrong as well, though. 
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
Aaahhh... has everyone forgotten AE? It was introduced to deal with content shortage at all levels, and despite Sturgeon's Law, there's plenty of quality arcs for all levels - if they can be tracked down. Why not then migrate the "cream of the crop" arcs into the official world, using a dev-appointed group of players to track them down and present to the devs if the devs themselves can't spare the time. That way there's more official content, lowbie or otherwise, available for non-AE players and the prestige of being able to say "Oh, that arc? Yeah, I wrote that one." might even provide AE writers to put in extra effort in an attempt to get "official".
Quote:
I totally agree with your ideas but I would say expand on your 3rd point. Tidy up the low level contacts in terms of them sending you off accross zones for missions as well as intros (inc. pvp zones, hero corps etc). And make getting their story arcs easier! I think there is some good low level content but its pain just getting to it!
|
Originally Posted by Xp3ndable
3) Don't force a person to a contact in a certain zone (i.e. Wincott to push the Hollows Zone). If you must do this at least give an option (See Wincott or Hunt down 25 LOST).
|
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Quote:
|
Quote:
I concur and would like to add this. Drop off the contacts that don't have you involved in a story line. I generally don't get to see some of the low level story arcs because we're sent to contacts that have you doing random tasks. If a player wants random mishes there is the radio and no shortage of teammates who want to do radio mishes. Give us easier access to story arcs while we're leveling up.
|
Originally Posted by Tired Angel
I totally agree with your ideas but I would say expand on your 3rd point. Tidy up the low level contacts in terms of them sending you off accross zones for missions as well as intros (inc. pvp zones, hero corps etc). And make getting their story arcs easier! I think there is some good low level content but its pain just getting to it!
|
What I really resent is "enforced" content like the Faultline arcs. I loved the Jim Tremblor Arc the first couple of times I went through it, but got a little tired of it. Yet, whenever I have a character in the early twenties, I always get that mission to talk to Jim Tremblor. It doesn't matter if I drop the mission or complete the mission - it's an automatic story arc. I HATE that!
Now I could just not do it - but I also hate having open story arcs on a character. WHY am I always forced into just that one arc?
Okay, I'm getting side-tracked. To the OP - I totally agree with the desire for low level content. All this work and effort that has been put into reducing the amount of farming and powerlevelling in the game could have been avoided if there had been a reason to repeat the lower levels on different characters, IMHO. Eventually the dearth of story-arcs leads to the police band grind, which feels ALOT like an xp farm after a while.
Yes, we have AE for low arc missions now, but alot of us (a) don't want to level our characters by having them "play a game" inside the game we're playing, and (b) don't want to sift through the increasing amount of ill-conceived, poorly implemented and unfinished arcs just to find something suitable for that level 7 character that just emerged from the sewers.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
I've been examining 'official' blue side content for a bit now.
With its generic door missions, endless street hunts, miles of pointless travel, and an obsession with hazard zones that borders on the unhealthy the lower levels do seem intentionally designed to alienate new players.
It'd be great if they assigned somebody to clean it up, but I think MA was the official response to the disaster that is the lower levels blue side, and the monotony of Kalinda & Burke red side.
And with all of the QOL improvements through the years (debt changes, temp travel powers, teleporters, XP smoothing, the impending speed-up to the lower levels) most players won't be spending enough time in that range to justify a big investment of energy in cleaning it up.
If we see the low level content as a dilapidated old neighborhood, the dev philosophy seems to prefer building an overpass right through the middle than going in and renovating it building by building.
With MA and the upcoming release of GR we'll have plenty of options to zip past the potholes of the early game.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
So if that's the case then what's the difference between zipping past the potholes and xp farming? Why get lathered up into a fury and threaten to lock powerlevelled characters if you're just going to encourage farming of a different sort?|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I've been examining 'official' blue side content for a bit now.
With its generic door missions, endless street hunts, miles of pointless travel, and an obsession with hazard zones that borders on the unhealthy the lower levels do seem intentionally designed to alienate new players. It'd be great if they assigned somebody to clean it up, but I think MA was the official response to the disaster that is the lower levels blue side, and the monotony of Kalinda & Burke red side. And with all of the QOL improvements through the years (debt changes, temp travel powers, teleporters, XP smoothing, the impending speed-up to the lower levels) most players won't be spending enough time in that range to justify a big investment of energy in cleaning it up. If we see the low level content as a dilapidated old neighborhood, the dev philosophy seems to prefer building an overpass right through the middle than going in and renovating it building by building. With MA and the upcoming release of GR we'll have plenty of options to zip past the potholes of the early game. |
From the sewers to King's Row - and beyond - police band, this game has a long history of teaching players what it is to drudge through the same mission (or mission type,) over and over. Small wonder, then, that many players choose to drudge through one mission at an accelerated rate of xp gain for their next characters to get to the "interesting" levels.
And what about the xp smoothing and upcoming pre-24 xp increase? Isn't that just putting off the problem? What happens when someone gets to the post-lv24 world and then has to start a slower rate of xp earning? They do what got them to level 24 so quickly in the first place - they grind xp in police band after police band (teamed and/or solo).
Dare I say it? They farm experience with the police band/newspaper missions. After all, what's the difference? A different door location and a randomized enemy? Where's the story content in that?
And what if they do pick up a story arc? They ought to change the name to "solo arc," because it's rare that a pre-45 team even wants to do them, given that the rewards/clues/souvenirs/merits only go to the arc holder. Especially so if the arc takes the team to multiple zones.
Now if story arcs gave clues and rewards to an entire team, that would be another story (and another suggestion). As it is, though, the overpass philosophy (nice analogy, btw) only leads to more overpasses being requested in the later levels.
How long until the levelling experience starts to feel like getting around Skyway City with superspeed?
EDIT - Nether, maybe I should have posted this in your thread. Currently reading through it now. Good thread, and mucho needed.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Quote:
Are you referring to Positron's MA hissy fit?|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
So if that's the case then what's the difference between zipping past the potholes and xp farming? Why get lathered up into a fury and threaten to lock powerlevelled characters if you're just going to encourage farming of a different sort?
|
If so, it wasn't pitched over PL'ing as an activity, it was pitched over using "exploits" to level at a tremendously supercharged rate.
Happily they seem to have figured out its counterproductive to threaten and bully paying customers- the bubble farm craze was met with the 'old school' response of patching the problem and moving on, minus the aggressive posturing and punitive response.
Quote:
| From the sewers to King's Row - and beyond - police band, this game has a long history of teaching players what it is to drudge through the same mission (or mission type,) over and over. Small wonder, then, that many players choose to drudge through one mission at an accelerated rate of xp gain for their next characters to get to the "interesting" levels. |
Your character is more interesting to play, with more and better powers. That has always been my motivation to PL alts, to reach the point in the game where playing my character generates the entertainment, regardless of what kind of content I'm running.
There is a notable difference in the quality of newer content compared to old content, but that's spread across many levels. I'm running my blaster alt through Faultline right now, and the contrast with the tedious garbage my Skyway contacts were shoveling my way could not be more striking.
Quote:
| And what about the xp smoothing and upcoming pre-24 xp increase? Isn't that just putting off the problem? |
Quote:
| What happens when someone gets to the post-lv24 world and then has to start a slower rate of xp earning? |
Helping players get to a level where they have more options will generate its own rewards.
Quote:
| They do what got them to level 24 so quickly in the first place - they grind xp in police band after police band (teamed and/or solo). |
But when I reach the 'tipping point' in the game where my character gets fun and I have options, I lose my motivation to PL. That won't be true for everyone, but I'd guess its true for a meaningful slice of players.
Reducing the tedium of the early game is a beneficial move, whether they choose to do it by speeding things up or re-doing the content. Since it's MUCH easier to speed up levelling than renovate a huge chunk of antique gameplay, that's what we're getting.
Quote:
| Dare I say it? They farm experience with the police band/newspaper missions. After all, what's the difference? A different door location and a randomized enemy? Where's the story content in that? |
Objectively, I'd have been better off running MA or radios.
Quote:
| And what if they do pick up a story arc? They ought to change the name to "solo arc," because it's rare that a pre-45 team even wants to do them, given that the rewards/clues/souvenirs/merits only go to the arc holder. Especially so if the arc takes the team to multiple zones. |
But it couldn't hurt to figure out a way for everybody to access the story content if they wanted.
Quote:
| As it is, though, the overpass philosophy (nice analogy, btw) only leads to more overpasses being requested in the later levels. |
In the end, only the devs know how fast they want us to level. So far I've been happy with the direction they've been going, barring the explosion over MA "exploits". They're speeding up problem spots, GR will be adding what I expect to be a HUGE amount of content of the 'new, fun' type, and the future is looking pretty good. I'm willing to kick back and see what they have in store without worrying about it too much.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Also, get them to give out their celphone number faster 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
My point, though is that the police band grinding in the lower levels is one of the factors that leads to the kind of player mentality that justifies the use of exploits as a means to an end. One of the developer mantras leading up to the release of the MA was "we want the MA to hilight story-driven content, not farming."|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Are you referring to Positron's MA hissy fit?
If so, it wasn't pitched over PL'ing as an activity, it was pitched over using "exploits" to level at a tremendously supercharged rate. |
The fact that farming was the result can in all likelihood be traced directly back to the mentality encouraged by police band experience farming (calling it what it is), and one wonders why they let the drudgery of the low-level experience undermine the MA's story-telling potential by neglecting to improve it.
Quote:
|
The 'interesting' levels are not fundamentally any better than the earlier ones- they still have pointless loads of travel, they still have meaningless fedex missions, they still have street hunts, the bulk of them do not venture beyond the generic goals go here, kill this, click that. Your character is more interesting to play, with more and better powers. That has always been my motivation to PL alts, to reach the point in the game where playing my character generates the entertainment, regardless of what kind of content I'm running. There is a notable difference in the quality of newer content compared to old content, but that's spread across many levels. I'm running my blaster alt through Faultline right now, and the contrast with the tedious garbage my Skyway contacts were shoveling my way could not be more striking. |
BUT the early levels are the prime time to get players hooked on story-driven content, and by and large it's being squandered. Only have five or six powers? Playing through an engaging storyline that challenges me to learn to use those six powers in creative ways are what makes the later levels so much more fun for me - even moreso than pl'ing in that I don't just play to get to the good stuff and then remove the "lesser" powers from my tray. I get a break from reality, a feel for my character and a fuller knowledge of what the powers can do. I can get all of that to a lesser extent from just grinding away experience, but the enjoyment and skill I get from story-arc leveled characters is exponential to those with which I've slogged through police band and PuGs.
Quote:
| IMHO anything that eases the passage through the levels where your character is more of a chore than a joy to play is going to improve the game experience. |
Quote:
|
Their character is more fun to play. Running content is less tedious, even if the content itself is basically the same. They have more gameplay options, and more choices about where to go for their fun. Helping players get to a level where they have more options will generate its own rewards. |
Will we see as a result a future QoL improvement that speeds up the later levels so we can get to all those shiny epic pool powers? That's like saying a road in poor condition is improved by a faster car.
Quote:
| Players are entitled to find their fun wherever they like- if they prefer scanner missions to 'real' content, or MA to 'real' content, that's their deal. |
But players are also entitled to make requests for improvement regarding whatever way they like to play (so long as it isn't against the EULA), and telling them that a solution that works for others should be good enough for them isn't really addressing their concern.
Quote:
|
But when I reach the 'tipping point' in the game where my character gets fun and I have options, I lose my motivation to PL. That won't be true for everyone, but I'd guess its true for a meaningful slice of players. Reducing the tedium of the early game is a beneficial move, whether they choose to do it by speeding things up or re-doing the content. Since it's MUCH easier to speed up levelling than renovate a huge chunk of antique gameplay, that's what we're getting. |
And while I don't expect the developers to cater to the playstyle of every player, I see nothing wrong with the OP pointing out areas that could use some improvement, and really that's all this is.
Quote:
|
Having played through Kings and Skyway, none of the contacts I've run had anything to recommend them. There were two cool missions that were a lot of fun, but they could not by themselves balance out the tremendous # of street sweeps, fedex missions and pointless travel to other zones. Objectively, I'd have been better off running MA or radios. |
Either way, you were farming experience, and the lack of attention to story arc content encouraged you to do so. You might have a tipping point where you stop powerlevelling, but other players clearly don't, and their experience with content has led so many of them to farm that AE in Atlas Park is frequently so jammed that it lags.
And more power to them, if that's what they enjoy. Me? I'll hold out for improved content.
Quote:
|
This is definitely an area that could be improved, although in my experience big teams are mostly in it for the XP and not so much the story/canon. But it couldn't hurt to figure out a way for everybody to access the story content if they wanted. |
Quote:
|
XP smoothing has already greatly improved certain stretches of the higher levels. I see the upcoming improvement to the lower levels as just an extention of that process. In the end, only the devs know how fast they want us to level. So far I've been happy with the direction they've been going, barring the explosion over MA "exploits". They're speeding up problem spots, GR will be adding what I expect to be a HUGE amount of content of the 'new, fun' type, and the future is looking pretty good. I'm willing to kick back and see what they have in store without worrying about it too much. |
I too am happy with the job they've done, and none of what I've said was meant to disparage their accomplishments (and I hope it didn't come across that way). That being said, I'm still with the OP - holding out for actual content improvements that make me want to play the lower levels, and not just zip by them.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Quote:
I don't assign any moral value to playing efficiently.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
My point, though is that the police band grinding in the lower levels is one of the factors that leads to the kind of player mentality that justifies the use of exploits as a means to an end. One of the developer mantras leading up to the release of the MA was "we want the MA to hilight story-driven content, not farming."
|
If someone wants to zip through the levels by blasting through scanner missions, good for them. If they want to PL to 50 in MA, great. If they like running "real" content, great. If they like playing fun, original story arcs in MA, great.
A lot of players like efficiency and don't care that much about story. If you hand them a mechanism that delivers exp efficiently at the expense of plot and character, they're going to take it.
I don't buy scanner missions as some sort of "gateway drug" leading inevitably to OMG EXPLOITS.
Quote:
| The fact that farming was the result can in all likelihood be traced directly back to the mentality encouraged by police band experience farming (calling it what it is)..... |
Players are what they are. They come pre-equipped with a love of efficiency and don't need to be 'led astray' by wantonly seductive content. On the contrary, they'll actively seek it out, and if it isn't on offer they'll fashion their own as best they can from whatever's lying around.
Players have been 'farming' here since the second the doors opened. The first 50 in the history of the game was an ar/dev farmer who street-swept his way to glory on the back of "exploits". Nothing leads them astray, they actively seek efficiency.
Quote:
| BUT the early levels are the prime time to get players hooked on story-driven content, and by and large it's being squandered. Only have five or six powers? Playing through an engaging storyline that challenges me to learn to use those six powers in creative ways are what makes the later levels so much more fun for me - even moreso than pl'ing in that I don't just play to get to the good stuff and then remove the "lesser" powers from my tray. I get a break from reality, a feel for my character and a fuller knowledge of what the powers can do. I can get all of that to a lesser extent from just grinding away experience, but the enjoyment and skill I get from story-arc leveled characters is exponential to those with which I've slogged through police band and PuGs. |
Since they probably aren't going to, lovers of story can camp out in MA and drown themselves in it if they like. Or they can PL to the level of their choice if they like. It's all the same to MA.
And when GR hits we'll have another option for the low levels, which will have all the advantage of the past 5 years of advances in mission design.
Quote:
| My point, though, is that in a well-rounded game no levels should be a chore to play. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disparaging the fun-factor of CoX in general - it's loads of fun to play as it is, else I wouldn't play it as often as I do. However, the OP expressed the opinion that the lower levels of play could stand vast improvement, and if the response in this thread is any indication, vast improvement =/= faster passage. Otherwise let me start my character at level 24 and be done with it. |
My blaster only suffered through Kings and Skyway because I wanted to see if it was as bad as I remembered (yes, it was). If I were playing "normally" I'd have mixed together scanners, street sweeping, Safeguards and some teaming until I got past stamina. Or alternately I could have hit MA and either PL'ed or run lowbie friendly story arcs.
Tedium is now voluntary- the game provides many options to avoid it.
Quote:
| But for how long? How long until players have used all their new powers the exact same way to do the exact same thing ad nauseum, and need a further fix from yet more powers? Sure, it lasts a little longer than the early levels, but just load into Atlas Park AE and count the number of lv 40+ characters begging for teams because they're dying to get to 50. |
I don't see what you're worrying about.
Quote:
| Will we see as a result a future QoL improvement that speeds up the later levels so we can get to all those shiny epic pool powers? |
The devs are largely content with the levelling speed at the upper levels, they weren't content with the speed at the lower levels.
You always progress faster at lower levels than at higher levels- players are used to it. They're not going to riot in the streets because the higher levels take longer to traverse.
Quote:
| But players are also entitled to make requests for improvement regarding whatever way they like to play (so long as it isn't against the EULA), and telling them that a solution that works for others should be good enough for them isn't really addressing their concern. |
Quote:
| Speeding up the early levels don't make them less tedious, it makes the tedium easier to bypass. Bypassing the tedium is one of the motivations for a great majority of the controversy in this game, and I fail to see the logic in capitulating to that "REWARD NAO" mentality, but then I'm the enjoy-the-ride type of player that prefers that the entire gaming experience be enjoyable. |
We have plenty of options, choose the one you like.
If you like story-driven advancement, MA awaits- there are a LOT of good lowbie friendly arcs waiting for you to play them.
Quote:
| And while I don't expect the developers to cater to the playstyle of every player, I see nothing wrong with the OP pointing out areas that could use some improvement, and really that's all this is. |
If you don't find what you want, make your own!
As I've said repetedly, it'd be great if they re-did the early levels top to bottom. Pointing out that it probably isn't going to happen because they'd rather make new stuff than fix old stuff is hardly saying the OP is "wrong" or trying to silence his brave call for reform.
Quote:
| And that's my point. The story arc content was such that you ran to police band to level past it. You could just as well have gone to AE and farmed your way past in a few hours, and without all the tedium of repeating the same set of missions with mix/matched enemy groups for fifteen levels. |
Why do you consistently ignore that option?
If your point requires you to wear blinders, maybe you should reconsider its logical foundation.
Quote:
| Either way, you were farming experience, and the lack of attention to story arc content encouraged you to do so. You might have a tipping point where you stop powerlevelling, but other players clearly don't, and their experience with content has led so many of them to farm that AE in Atlas Park is frequently so jammed that it lags. |
You aren't going to get farmers out of MA with great storytelling.
You get them out by improving the rewards available from 'regular' content.
Quote:
| And more power to them, if that's what they enjoy. Me? I'll hold out for improved content. |
The farming is tremendous, yes, but it also delivers great stories.
Quote:
| With you 1000 percent there, but I wonder if Story Arc content isn't obsolete in the current gaming environment? The developers have already demonstrated through rcent changes that task forces are the preferred core content, so why not abandon the story arc mechanic altogether? |
The bulk of the "story" talent is obviously working on GR. They wanted to put *something* out, so we got TFs. And frankly the older TFs are mostly lamer than the old story arcs- more TFs that don't make you pass out from boredom should be welcomed with open arms (even if, like me, you lack the time to play them).
Quote:
| Story arcs already award merits, so why not give them the task force architecture, but with a minimum requirement of only one player? Then everyone could share in the rewards, the rewards wouldn't have to change, and teams would be more inclined to run them. |
TL/DR:
MA is a viable story-based alternative to the crappy lower level game.
Players by nature seek efficiency, they aren't seduced to their doom by phat exp.
It'd be great if they re-did the whole low level game, but since they won't MA and eventually GR will have to do.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Story arcs as TF mode:
See Flashback, which as of I16 (likely tomorrow) will still allow folks to earn XP when exemped
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
Well, I wasn't trying to by quite so hyperbolic as that! All I'm saying is that (a) there is very little difference in playing the same mission repeatedly for rewards (farming) and playing the same repeated series of missions with plug and play enemies repeatedly for rewards (Police Band) and (b) that Police Band missions certainly don't discourage the player mindset that eventually justifies powerlevelling. While I'll admit to a large degree of unintentional hyperbole when I said it was one of the factors that leads to powerlevelling and exploitive farms, I do feel there certainly should be some incentive to do something besides that after a few characters having gone through those levels.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I don't assign any moral value to playing efficiently.
If someone wants to zip through the levels by blasting through scanner missions, good for them. If they want to PL to 50 in MA, great. If they like running "real" content, great. If they like playing fun, original story arcs in MA, great. A lot of players like efficiency and don't care that much about story. If you hand them a mechanism that delivers exp efficiently at the expense of plot and character, they're going to take it. I don't buy scanner missions as some sort of "gateway drug" leading inevitably to OMG EXPLOITS. |
Quote:
|
Nonsense. Players are what they are. They come pre-equipped with a love of efficiency and don't need to be 'led astray' by wantonly seductive content. On the contrary, they'll actively seek it out, and if it isn't on offer they'll fashion their own as best they can from whatever's lying around. Players have been 'farming' here since the second the doors opened. The first 50 in the history of the game was an ar/dev farmer who street-swept his way to glory on the back of "exploits". Nothing leads them astray, they actively seek efficiency. |
Quote:
|
It'd be nice if they re-did the lower levels and made them more engaging. Since they probably aren't going to, lovers of story can camp out in MA and drown themselves in it if they like. Or they can PL to the level of their choice if they like. It's all the same to MA. And when GR hits we'll have another option for the low levels, which will have all the advantage of the past 5 years of advances in mission design. |
You're quite right - I did ignore MA in my previous post, but that's mainly because the fact that my character is standing in the same place mission after mission offsets the story for me. I get bored always seeing the same thing. But again - that's just me. Many people do like the story content MA offers, and I've been known to do an MA arc or two. It doesn't stop me from wanting to get out into Paragon City once in a while to do something heroic.
It's petty. It's only a little bit shy of ridiculous, but I'll freely admit that I'd be all about MA content if players could assign the real standard contacts and have the mission start in a random door in the same zone (using the same code Police Band uses to assign doors) and be "real" to the world my character inhabits.
::shrugs::
Unreasonable? Maybe. But I am what I am.
Quote:
|
I don't consider any levels a "chore" the way the game is currently set up. My blaster only suffered through Kings and Skyway because I wanted to see if it was as bad as I remembered (yes, it was). If I were playing "normally" I'd have mixed together scanners, street sweeping, Safeguards and some teaming until I got past stamina. Or alternately I could have hit MA and either PL'ed or run lowbie friendly story arcs. Tedium is now voluntary- the game provides many options to avoid it. |
But to consider any in-game tedium voluntary because you can speed past it is just putting a bandaid over an unsightly scar.
Quote:
|
The game is the game. It's been around 5 years, it'll be around for at least another 5, and right now it has more and better content than it ever has, with a bunch more on the way. I don't see what you're worrying about. |
Quote:
|
No, we won't. The devs are largely content with the levelling speed at the upper levels, they weren't content with the speed at the lower levels. You always progress faster at lower levels than at higher levels- players are used to it. They're not going to riot in the streets because the higher levels take longer to traverse. |
Quote:
|
As noted, the tedium is now voluntary. We have plenty of options, choose the one you like. If you like story-driven advancement, MA awaits- there are a LOT of good lowbie friendly arcs waiting for you to play them. MA is the ultimate 'playstyle-caterer'. If you don't find what you want, make your own! As I've said repetedly, it'd be great if they re-did the early levels top to bottom. Pointing out that it probably isn't going to happen because they'd rather make new stuff than fix old stuff is hardly saying the OP is "wrong" or trying to silence his brave call for reform. |
But neither I nor the OP are saying to fix a bunch of old stuff. Two of the three suggestions deal with adding new lower level content specifically, and by lower-level, he appears to mean pre-40 content, since the post-40 content is what he identifies as being heavy. Some good stuff has come down the pike for level 35 and above - and the supersidekicking combined with losing the level requirements for hazard zones is HUGE for my lower and mid-level characters - bigger than the MA for me.
But the thread is about new content at lower levels, not fixing a bunch of old stuff. If they do fix a thing or two about old story arcs then great, but new options for new characters would be most welcome.
And yes, I am looking forward to GR for that reason, too.
Quote:
|
Or I could have hit MA and run story arcs with engaging plots and interesting enemies. Why do you consistently ignore that option? If your point requires you to wear blinders, maybe you should reconsider its logical foundation. The early levels could deliver a Half-Life quality storytelling experience, and if MA let them level faster everyone would still be in MA. You aren't going to get farmers out of MA with great storytelling. You get them out by improving the rewards available from 'regular' content. |
And yeah, I did ignore MA previously, but I covered that above.
Quote:
|
MA *is* improved content- that's why so many people are in there. The farming is tremendous, yes, but it also delivers great stories. |
Quote:
|
You're really reaching here. The bulk of the "story" talent is obviously working on GR. They wanted to put *something* out, so we got TFs. And frankly the older TFs are mostly lamer than the old story arcs- more TFs that don't make you pass out from boredom should be welcomed with open arms (even if, like me, you lack the time to play them). |
Quote:
|
TL/DR: MA is a viable story-based alternative to the crappy lower level game. Players by nature seek efficiency, they aren't seduced to their doom by phat exp. It'd be great if they re-did the whole low level game, but since they won't MA and eventually GR will have to do. |
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
This again, huh? I'm with the Goat (for a change): the game has options. If you want to farm, get on sewer teams, get on scanner teams and otherwise hotwire the lower levels, go right ahead. I choose to do the content, myself.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
.....and? Not sure where we're disagreeing here. I too choose the content. I'd just like to see more of it that actually takes place outside MA at the mid to lower levels.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
This again, huh? I'm with the Goat (for a change): the game has options. If you want to farm, get on sewer teams, get on scanner teams and otherwise hotwire the lower levels, go right ahead. I choose to do the content, myself.
|
EDIT - and that's not to say I don't expect that we'll indeed be seeing new content added once GR is released. Nothing wrong with identifying a desirable level range up front, is there?
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Wow, it's always nice to see your post as inspired healthy debate!
As to getting past the lower levels quickly, I can certainly see the desire for that by some, and I certainly don't begrudge those that want to do it. After all, they can come back to do those all important low level missions (Speluenker for Atlas Medallion) through Oroborus.
That being said, if the content is uncompelling for those missions, why would I choose to do them? The obvious answer is for the reward, as stated. But it still doesn't make the content any better and it becomes a slog for the reward. More so, because you don't get you fancy new powers to work them. Your stuck with what you had at level "x". Oh and God forbid you may have respected yourself into being useless at level "x". So perhaps overhaulling the low level content isn't as useless as it may appear.
I must admit that overhauling the content wasn't what I was going for though, as was pointed out. I'd like to see "options" for my low level toon. Story Arc Options. Options that don't leave me stuck in a big building that often is really laggy (unless your smart enough to do AE in quiet GC).
Someone suggested having those AE "Gems" become canon content. This doesn't seem like such a chore. The "Dev's Choice" arcs have already drawn the Dev's attention. Why not incorporate those into standard contacts.
I do agree with Smilin' Joe that the AE implementation was highly underwhelming for me. I was very excited about it initially. However, the fact that I was standing in a building, doing nothing to help the citizens of Paragon City was very annoying. Perhaps, AE is really a Nemesis Plot! Get the heroes off the streets and leave the streets empty and ripe for plunder (Just Kidding, but it might make for an interesting Story Arc, eh?)
I like the TF for Arcs Idea. I have always believed that the story should be shared by all members of the team. Most people who team, I would guess, team with the same group of people (those who aren't just out for the quick XP of teaming). The people they team with are people they enjoy teaming with. Those that are annoyances often get kicked from the team for one reason or another. Therefore it would behoove the Dev's to offer the Arc content to all team members (and the ensuing rewards). This way the teams have a reason to do the Arcs. You don't get Merits for PB, so in a way there is a penalty for teaming and NOT doing AE.
I may have gotten way off topic here, but I wanted to state some more of my issues and thank those who have engaged in such serious, and well thought out debate concerning the topic.
In the end, I think that "ignoring" the low level content or "speeding past it" won't fix the problems. Only fixing the problems actually offers a solution. I think saying the Dev's "won't do it" is a bit broad. They have obviously shown concern about fixing some areas that have displayed a large amount of tedium in the past (i.e. the changes to the hollows and Faultline). In the end, I think a lot of the fixes in I16 will resolve some issues. I hope for a lot in GR, but don't want to end up being underwhelmed again.
Oh and I still think new content (more options) should be offered for low level toons, searching for Non AE content, expeically in the RI
Quote:
Just a quick note regarding Wincott: A lot of players don't seem to realize that you do not have to wait until you visit your Kings Row contact to talk to Wincott.|
Originally Posted by Xp3ndable
3) Don't force a person to a contact in a certain zone (i.e. Wincott to push the Hollows Zone). If you must do this at least give an option (See Wincott or Hunt down 25 LOST).
|
You can visit Wincott as soon as you hit level 5, before you ever head to Kings Row. This saves you a wasted round trip and a lot of time.
Quote:
Oh yeah, I'm very aware of that. The same goes for most of the Errand missions (i.e. Jim Temblor). However, It is annoying to go to KR, speak to your first contact and be forced to talk to Wincott (or drop the mission).|
Originally Posted by TyrantMikey
Just a quick note regarding Wincott: A lot of players don't seem to realize that you do not have to wait until you visit your Kings Row contact to talk to Wincott.
You can visit Wincott as soon as you hit level 5, before you ever head to Kings Row. This saves you a wasted round trip and a lot of time. |
For those who want to run the Hollows arc, they will likely go there and run the whole series through the Cavern of Trancendance. Unless they get distracted into other threads by joining a team.
Quote:
<rant>|
Originally Posted by TyrantMikey
Just a quick note regarding Wincott: A lot of players don't seem to realize that you do not have to wait until you visit your Kings Row contact to talk to Wincott.
You can visit Wincott as soon as you hit level 5, before you ever head to Kings Row. This saves you a wasted round trip and a lot of time. |
My problem is having the rat... I mean guy in my contact list for the next 15 levels. If I want him in my contact list it's because I want to do his missions. Give me the choice. I don't care how I get him (or don't) for a contact, I want to be able to choose. That's true for every single one of those auto-contacts as well. They're annoying. Sure, it's great that they just give us a pop-up instead of making us run to them from some other contact, but why can't that pop-up say have a decline option? Why the hell do I have to accept the MA tutorial contact that will stay in my list until I go do that damn tutorial for the 50th time? Same for the inventions contact. And you can't just decline the mission with those, either, because they're multi-part. I suppose you can decline one, then ignore it for three days, then repeat but that would take a long time and it's frelling ridiculous. Let me just decline the contact already. I know how to make inventions! There should be no contacts you're forced to put in your contact list. That includes the ones where one of your current contacts has only a single contact to offer you. Click on the "be introduced" button and get a contact you may or may not like? If there's more than one to choose from we can decline them all; why not let us decline if there's only one? Especially now that any time you want a different contact you only have to run a safeguard/mayhem mission and you get a new one.
</rant>
That is all.
Robin
--If we can have huge sig images, why can we have only five lines of text?
--...faceplanting like a Defender pulling an AV (Nalrok_AthZim)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...
|
Without knowing all the details of the upcoming Going Rogue. It sure would be nice to have some more low level Devloper Content. It seems there is almost too much stuff to do at the level 40+ that you have to choose what your focus is. Do i do Oroborus? Vangaurd? Cimerora? Developer "Zone" Content. But at the early levels it's all about getting on a sewer team to get out of Atlas ASAP. In Rogue Isles its an all out slog to get past Mercy and Port Oakes.
Jsut some Quick thoughts.
1) Have a new landing zone in the Isles (much like Galaxy City), and have more contacts than just Kalinda and Burke. Even the hero's have a contact for every Archtype.
2) Have more options for low level heros to follow. Galaxy City seems to be painfully underpopulated, possibly because ther is more access to the low heroes basic needs in Atlas.
3) Don't force a person to a contact in a certain zone (i.e. Wincott to push the Hollows Zone). If you must do this at least give an option (See Wincott or Hunt down 25 LOST).
jsut some quick thoughts, I have more but will post them at a different time.