Where do I fit Taunt in?

Seriously no one has every complained about my Fire/Fire/Pyre not holding aggro and it doesnt have taunt. No one ever complained about my INV tank not holding aggro when he didnt have taunt ( although now I have it for more defense slotting ). In fact on the tanks that do have taunt I took it very late in the build usually post 40 and never had an issue before that..

Taunt only works on 5 foes max so you will need to use all your skills if you are REALLY going to manage aggro.

And I am not talking tanks leveled up through AE boss missions. Im talking good old fashioned leveling...

You have either played with badly designed tanks or tanks who didnt know what they were doing.

Taunt is a tool and while it is a good one, to suggest that a tanker that doesnt take taunt is no better than a scrapper IMO is somewhat shortsighted. I also notice how you particularly blame the tank for the entire team faceplanting. I would like to know what maps you are running. What the level of the foes you were facing were relative to the tank itself. How many mobs did you engage ???

I guarantee you that I could run my Inv, Ice, or Fire tanks and never hit taunt once and you would not get any more additional aggro...

ALSO as a person who has played somewhere around 28 toons of every AT both hero and villian to 50 this one thing I know.. Aggro management is not the SOLE responsibility of the Tank. If the tank is engaged in a mob and you aggro another.. its YOUR fault.. I play lots of squishies and every single one of them I know how to handle the aggro they generate.

Before this discussion becomes completely derailed, here's a Invul/Mace build that shows Taunt taken early, and has what I think of as reasonable power picks and order.

FWIW, I'm in the "Taunt is good to have but not essential" camp. I do, however, think it is closer to essential for Invul tankers who are new to tanking, since they might have difficulty holding aggro without it. To the OP: I recommend picking it up early and trying it. If you eventually come to the conclusion that you don't want it or need it, you can always drop it later.

This build was put together with the assumption that it would soft-capped for S/L and possibly E/NE defense, which is why Unstoppable was skipped. However, I also think that you should try Unstop before deciding whether to keep it or not, but of course YMMV.

Personally, I like Build-Up and always get it, but some tanks do skip it. If you've already decided to get the Fighting Pool, (which is not a given, BTW, my level 50 Invul/Mace doesn't have it) I think the other best options for dropping a power, either to get Unstop or an epic, are ResEn and Hasten.

Hope that helps!

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 48 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Bash -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Clobber -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Resist Physical Damage -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Shatter -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Tough -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Weave -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Resist Energies -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

If I were building an Inv/Mace with all the trimmings, I'd want to do something similar to this. With Inv, there should be almost no issue with early Taunt, because your primary is full of passives that lack urgency.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(9), RctvArm-ResDam:40(11), RctvArm-EndRdx:40(15)
Level 1: Bash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(3), KntkC'bat-Knock%:35(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(43)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(7), RechRdx-I:50(13), Heal-I:50(33), Heal-I:50(34), Heal-I:50(34)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(5), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(5), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(31), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(31), T'Death-Dam%:40(31)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(11), RctvArm-ResDam:40(13), RctvArm-EndRdx:40(15)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt:50(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(50)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I:30(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(17), Numna-Heal:50(17), Mrcl-Heal:40(50)
Level 18: Invincibility -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(19), GftotA-Def:40(19), GftotA-Def/Rchg:40(34), GSFC-Build%:50(37), Taunt-I:50(40)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), EndMod-I:50(21)
Level 22: Clobber -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(23), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(23), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(25), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(29), T'Death-Dam%:40(33)
Level 24: Build Up -- AdjTgt-Rchg:50(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:50(25), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx:50(48)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(27), DefBuff-I:50(27), Ksmt-ToHit+:30(50)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:50(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:50(46), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(46), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48)
Level 30: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 32: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 35: Shatter -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:50(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(36), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:50(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:50(39), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(39), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40)
Level 41: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(42), RctvArm-ResDam:40(42), RctvArm-EndRdx:40(43)
Level 44: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(A), GftotA-EndRdx/Rchg:40(45), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(45), GftotA-Def:40(45)
Level 47: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I:50(A)
Level 49: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I:50(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

Take taunt, you chose a tank for a reason. I'm sure you could have made a scrapper but you didn't. Many will chime in with the infamous "we don't need it, my aura does..." and so on and so on. But honestly, an insta taunt every 4-6 seconds is extremely valuable. I'm all for auras (have a lvl 50 fire/fire) but even then I took taunt.

I'm not a min/maxer I don't enjoy skipping powers just to either do more dmg or act like everyone else because of minor details. I also took unstopp on my lvl 50 invul and use it whenever needed. The crash is easily monitored with either a stop watch (the days before hero planner) or Hero Planner ( which adds CD timer to the upper right corner).

If you still can't manage Unstopp then you either need more practice or switch to another safer tier 9. (Strength of Will). I take taunt as early as possible(lvl10) as I'm more of a dmg sponge than a dmg outlet, so I build mostly around defending and taking damage. I also like tight mobs of death balls.

Plus women are naturally attracted to the taunting voice, a mating call, so to speak.

So is it taunt than makes a tank ??? Cause Scrappers have taunt too??

Just put a Taunt enhancer in invincibilty, and you won't need Taunt.
Unstoppable is nice for your confidence, but you won't get much use from it .
Build up is not needed.
Quite honestly, it's really hard to muck up an Invulnerable tank.


Taunt only works on 5 mobs.
You have AoE attacks/aura will will work on more than 5 mobs.
My first tank had taunt. It was very helpful for me as a noob tank to just spam spam spam taunt all over to help manage aggro. But, now none of my tanks have taunt. I find I am a better tank without taunt. I use my complete line of powersets to manage aggro AND now I am actually contributing damage. Most importantly, I am enjoying playing a tank more.
Spamming taunt was getting boring, and I could never go back to that ever again.
Taunt is a crutch and can lead to your team mates acting stupidly. But, if you feel you need it go for it.

All good points Sarrate.

Also, taunt takes no endurance to use. So while you're standing there. getting attacked by all the Mu Guardians, and you struggle to maintain all your toggles while your team fires away freely, you can always toss out a taunt and it wont drop a toggle.

It is a great tool. I don't understand the negative talk about it. Sure, you don't need to use it on an experienced team, thats great, use your attacks then. What the big freakin' deal?

I have taken taunt on every tank I have ever played. I recommend increased range enhancements, it really increases its utility.

Much as I hate hate hate HATE to say it, taunt is needed for a tank in some situations. For most of the game you don't need it. If you plan on:

AV missions with a team
or
Fight Giant Monsters
or
Hami Raids

You're going to want taunt. I have used an exceptionally high powered, super IO'd out Inv/EM tank with massive ST damage, and Invulnerability, and even with that gauntlet will not hold the aggro of an AV if a team of 8 is pounding on it, especially if some on the team are blasters/scrappers. Maybe Ice/EM could do it, or Ice/SS with multiple aggro fields.....

Gauntlet is next to useless, and you're not going to be a "tough scrapper" against Hami. (Main reason I will never never ever do another Hami raid, I hate hate hate taunt-boting).

GMs are similar to AVs and Hami, gauntlet requres a to-hit check on these guys, and doens't last long.

Frankly it's a stupid piece of [censored] programing crutch of a power. I hate it, it's in my opinion unheroic, and I hate it even more that I need it in some situations.

I much rather let those who want to be without taunt to carry on without taunt.

Simply let players pick and choose the people they like to team with.

I can tank the STF as a scrapper with confront, tank all the AVs, for a team without a defender or a controller and not die. I must know something. By doing any of it I show that no type of defender or controller is needed, like some crutch to a man who is missing a leg.

I'd much rather see tanks with it than without. Real life Masters of Distraction have been known to save lives and so there is nothing unacceptable about Taunt as a heroic power.

Something I have noticed while fighting lvl 52 bosses in ae farms with my lvl 50 fire blaster.

I can strip aggro from a tank who only uses auras as their taunts far, far easier than a tank who spams taunt whenever it is up.

So my imput to a anyone who want to be a tank is take your auras, TAKE TAUNT.

Some Tankers I have to lower my DPS around, or wait that extra few seconds before debuffing which I wouldn't normally with some others. This is so as to not have more than I can handle. Can it mean that by having to hold back the team is losing in some efficiency? It can.

I don't believe that Tankers are needed, but if all they are is some guy at the front taking an alpha, and keeping some enemies, then hell I could prefer a Scrapper in their place. Tankers have to do more to aid the teams assault in order to make up for their lack of damage than a scrapper ordinarily can. Other members of the team should be more efficient from a tanker in front than a scrapper in front. If I, as a Blaster am locked in my own personal battle, with a small off shoot of the enemy group, then it's likely that I am now having to only hit 4 instead of 16 and utilize controls instead of dealing straight damage. I don't have to blame the offshoot on the tanker, but that fact that I could be striking against the main bulk of the group can come down to the tanker.

And as a fire blaster he'll never get the attention of any of the groups over the tanks aggro cap either. Oh, wait.. nvm.

Here's another vote for skipping unstoppable or leaving it till very late as a last minute pick. Invuln is already a monster of survivability with a few good S/L set bonuses and the powers up to invincibility. Add tough/weave and nobody can throw you off.

As to the taunt issue I have tankers that went most of their career with and without. My Fire/EM managed to tank very competently even with the paltry AOE potential of /EM. My Inv/Mace found taunt a nice tool to keep aggro before Invincibility, and a great insurance policy after.

I would perhaps suggest trying it without taunt for a while to get a real feel for aggro control and good pacing. Add in taunt if you feel you're endangering your team too often or for the often mentioned purpose of AV/GM tanking. Note that this can be done well without taunt, but is not 100% foolproof as taunt is.

If you decide to go tauntless, be dauntless! Really push ahead of the team and adopt an aggressive playstyle. If you can get in there early enough and establish the group with gauntlet/auras/aoes, it will be pretty hard to snatch aggro from you. This is good tanker practice for most normal missioning anyhow, as it keeps the team rolling and helps prevent accidental squishy alpha aggro. I'll usually leave the previous group of mobs once I know it's down to a level the others can handle without pain. They mop up while I get the next package tightly wrapped.

Take taunt, the ladies will love you for it, and the men will envy you're glow of after battle. Seriously, if you don't get some numbers taunting you either need to work out more, or hit the D and buy some Super Honeys some drinks.