First off, Taunt is neither necessary nor useless. It is a tool to hold aggro. It is a tool that you can do without, but is nice to have. If you can hold aggro without it, then you can do so. Just because another Tanker used it is no reason to get it yourself if you don't need it.
That being said, I would move a few things around in your build:
Swap out Hurdle for Swift. It will allow you to boost your flight speed a bit. Hurdle isn't doing too much for you.
Move Build Up to level 22, take Health at level 16, and Stamina at 20. That should help you out a little bit, but not too much.
Move either Weave (my preferred) or Unstoppable back. Take Taunt in that place. Or, you could move the entire Fighting pool back, and get Taunt at level 12.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Taunt matters depending on your intentions. The tanks with taunt are potentially more flexible and capable than those without by far.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Thanks. That's a lot to think about. I didn't realize swift functioned off the ground. |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Move Build Up to level 22, take Health at level 16, and Stamina at 20. That should help you out a little bit, but not too much.
Move either Weave (my preferred) or Unstoppable back. Take Taunt in that place. Or, you could move the entire Fighting pool back, and get Taunt at level 12. |
I've been told good things about Weave, but that Unstoppable was an ASAP, though I do wonder about its crash.
I think you might be right on the buildup ->, Health <-, to get Stamina at 20. I just have build up ingrained in me because I tend to play blasters though I do fret about end.
I played CoH for a few months three years ago and only a trial NCsoft sent me got me hooked again.
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While the fighting pool helps, you don't really need it in place until the late 30s or thereabouts. I would put off Boxing and get Taunt earlier. You will do fine against the stuff you will be facing in the 20-something levels without it. Invuln tankers may want early Taunt anyways; their aura does not come until 18. |
Originally Posted by Postagulous
I planned this all out after reading about how taunt doesn't matter. Then I played some boss farms with a different character and our tank was great.
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I never take Unstoppable on an Inv tanker; it isn't a power you can really rely on, given its nasty crash and long recharge time. Part of the point of having Tough and Weave is the leisure they give you to skip it. Your mileage may vary; but if you take it, get it at 49.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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The last suggestion would be my choice. Weave is a good addition for an Invul tanker, but IMO there's no urgency to take it before the 40's; it's the late game where having high levels of defense really comes in handy. On the other hand, having Taunt early is helpful for an Invul tank, since the taunt aura isn't available until level 18.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Move either Weave (my preferred) or Unstoppable back. Take Taunt in that place. Or, you could move the entire Fighting pool back, and get Taunt at level 12.
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My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
if you just gonna boss farm with him..take it late..since youll most liekly be 50 for the farm you wont need it right away..
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Ouch, don't hit me with your harsh reality.
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Originally Posted by Coldmed
if you just gonna boss farm with him..take it late..since you'll most likely be 50 for the farm you wont need it right away..
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I"m against any power that causes an end crash to melee characters regardless of how powerful it may seem. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with squishes end crashing.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
....I never take Unstoppable on an Inv tanker; it isn't a power you can really rely on, given its nasty crash ...
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The reason for this is that the melee characters - especially Tanks - are in the thick of it and responsible for managing the agro (aka keeping it off the squishes).
To the original point, I definitely think that any Tank should take Taunt as early as they can fit it in. This is a matter or your priorities and character conception.
I've built mine (14 Tanks not all high enough to have Taunt as a power pick yet.)) adding Taunt as early as I can get it or until as early as I could fit in in after 20 (Stamina).
Taunt is the most powerful agro-tool and is important to any good Tanker's tool box. (My other posts in regards to Taunt are more detailed)
Any Tank without Taunt is just a Tanker acting like a Scrapper. A Tanker's job is to protect the team through holding agro and do damage; a Scrappers job is to do damage and protect teammates (in some cases, that might even be the Tank).
Quite simply, Taunt is yelling across the room to the enemy to come and fight you.
If you are fighting with a baseball bat, how can you pass that up?
My inv/war mace with a baseball bat picked Taunt as soon as it was available, and that is completely due to character conception.
Mini-maxing is great, but I find a lot of enjoyment of this game of playing characters that I like because of their character conception.
I would strongly suggest making a second tanker, thinking up a character conception, and then sticking to "character conception" power choices. You might be surprised at which of the two tanks that you like playing more.
This is an RPG after all, it isn't just about the number crunching.
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I disagree with this statement wholeheartedly. All my tanks are level 50 tanks. Some have taunt and some do not. Taunt is one tool in the box to control aggro, Yet it is not the only one. My Fire/Fire tank does not have taunt yet has no problem holding aggro because all his attacks have an aggro component. Gauntlet is also a tool. My Ice tank while he does have taunt also has chilling embrace as well as Icicles and with those two running it is almost impossible to pull aggro off him.
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
Any Tank without Taunt is just a Tanker acting like a Scrapper. A Tanker's job is to protect the team through holding agro and do damage; a Scrappers job is to do damage and protect teammates (in some cases, that might even be the Tank). |
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
If you’re going with fly, I would chose swift over hurdle.
Unstoppable is not a must have power, and I wouldn’t find weave a must have ether. You have lots of possibilities to fit taunt in right there.
Drop Unstop
There are situations in the game where taunt is used to and note "best protect" the rest of the team. However some people hate that and so it is among many players you can be either loved or vilified for being with or without.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
You better put clobber in there pronto or you'll be teh gimpz.
Here's how I did it:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Phrendon Largo: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(3), TtmC'tng-ResDam(5), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(13)
Level 1: Bash -- Acc(A)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(15)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- P'ngS'Fest-Stun%(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(9), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(13), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 6: Swift -- Run-I(A), Flight-I(15)
Level 8: Unyielding -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(11), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(11)
Level 10: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 12: Air Superiority -- Acc-I(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A), Winter-ResSlow(40)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(17), Heal-I(17)
Level 18: Invincibility -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(19), RedFtn-EndRdx(19), Taunt-I(23), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(23), HO:Cyto(40)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(48), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(50)
Level 24: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(25), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(25), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(43), TtmC'tng-ResDam(43)
Level 26: Weave -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-EndRdx(27), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(27), RedFtn-Def(43), RedFtn-EndRdx(46)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- Acc-I(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(29), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(31), RechRdx-I(34), EndRdx-I(34)
Level 30: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31)
Level 32: Clobber -- Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(33), HO:Perox(33), RechRdx-I(33), HO:Endo(34), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(37)
Level 35: Shatter -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(36), FrcFbk-Rechg%(36), RechRdx-I(37), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 38: Unstoppable -- RechRdx-I(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(39), ImpArm-ResPsi(39), Aegis-ResDam(39)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(42), EndRdx-I(42), ToHit-I(42)
Level 44: Crowd Control -- Acc-I(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(45), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(45), RechRdx-I(46), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), EndRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), AdjTgt-Rchg(50), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- QckFt-RunSpd(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
-Largo
Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian
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D'oh! Can't believe I missed that! Largo's right, Clobber is a 'must have'. Though if you were going by an old guide you might not know that, it was buffed fairly recently, and before that many WM players skipped it.
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Originally Posted by Largo
You better put clobber in there pronto or you'll be teh gimpz.
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My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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The Tanker AT's main purpose is to hold aggro as you said...the part I'm having trouble with is the some have it...some don't. The only Tanker Primary that can get away with no taunt is maybe Ice Armor. Past that, if your a tanker without taunt...your just a scrapper trying to be a tank in disguise. Over the past 2 weeks, I've team with various tankers without taunt and each time...they have face-planted the whole team because they could not hold the aggro so the squishie ATs could support/heal/buff that particular tanker.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
I disagree with this statement wholeheartedly. All my tanks are level 50 tanks. Some have taunt and some do not. Taunt is one tool in the box to control aggro, Yet it is not the only one. My Fire/Fire tank does not have taunt yet has no problem holding aggro because all his attacks have an aggro component. Gauntlet is also a tool. My Ice tank while he does have taunt also has chilling embrace as well as Icicles and with those two running it is almost impossible to pull aggro off him.
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As for Gauntlet, it doesn't last as long as taunt and doesn't have the -75% ranged damage debuff with it. Taunt can also be used to hit those mobs just out of melee range that's trying their hardest to kill off your heals and buffs. Tanker's control aggro first and foremost, they take the damage to give team-mates a chance to rip them a new one while the mob's keep looking at you. It's kinda hard for the defenders to heal and buff if their fighting off mobs. The same goes to Controllers...they aggro like nuts and need tankers to keep the mobs busy with laying down holds to help said tanker.
Without everyone pulling together and doing their individual "jobs" on the team, the whole team fails...regardless.
As to what to skip to fit Taunt in...well Build-up for starters. It's a good power to put off till late 30s early 40s. Tankers are about defenses and taking the damage, not doing the most damage. If that is what you want...try a scrapper or brute. Taunt can save your life in a "beat around the bush" sort of way. You save the squishies...they'll save you.
Also remember with safeguard missions, you can put off travel powers till late 20s to early 30s. Once Issue 16 hits, you can grab a temp travel and wait till you have all your necessary powers taken care of. Travel power is great, but if your defenses aren't up to snuff...the only main traveling you'll do is to and from the hospital.
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Originally Posted by MurderousMalk
The Tanker AT's main purpose is to hold aggro as you said...the part I'm having trouble with is the some have it...some don't. The only Tanker Primary that can get away with no taunt is maybe Ice Armor. Past that, if your a tanker without taunt...your just a scrapper trying to be a tank in disguise. Over the past 2 weeks, I've team with various tankers without taunt and each time...they have face-planted the whole team because they could not hold the aggro so the squishie ATs could support/heal/buff that particular tanker.
As for Gauntlet, it doesn't last as long as taunt and doesn't have the -75% ranged damage debuff with it. Taunt can also be used to hit those mobs just out of melee range that's trying their hardest to kill off your heals and buffs. Tanker's control aggro first and foremost, they take the damage to give team-mates a chance to rip them a new one while the mob's keep looking at you. It's kinda hard for the defenders to heal and buff if their fighting off mobs. The same goes to Controllers...they aggro like nuts and need tankers to keep the mobs busy with laying down holds to help said tanker. Without everyone pulling together and doing their individual "jobs" on the team, the whole team fails...regardless. |
Truthfully, if you can't manage aggro without taunt you should take it. But my fire/fire/pyre tank doesn't have taunt and doesn't have an issue managing aggro. I've been complimented by fire/fire blasters for keeping the aggro off them. If I felt I couldn't manage aggro on him he'd have taunt simple as that. Three of my other tanks have taunt because they needed it for managing aggro. As always YMMV.
Largo's suggestion of lvl 22 looks reasonable for getting taunt in that build.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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If your team can't survive without a taunting tanker, your team sucks. If you had multiple defenders or controllers, you shouldn't even need the tank to try to manage agro at all. Blaming this on taunt is a cop-out.
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Originally Posted by MurderousMalk
Over the past 2 weeks, I've team with various tankers without taunt and each time...they have face-planted the whole team because they could not hold the aggro so the squishie ATs could support/heal/buff that particular tanker
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Taunt is a crutch to support bad team members that don't know how to handle themselves in a fight. Aggro is a team responsibility.
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So what your saying is we don't need tankers with taunt and should just play scrappers and run around like chickens with our heads cut off? No one was blaming taunt in general, the point was tankers can use taunt to manage the aggro so said defenders and controllers can get their buffs/holds/ and what not out there with the impending doom of massive damage being shot back at those trollers when they group immobile the mobs. Never said anything to the idea of "must have a taunting tanker to survive", I mentioned about how taunt helps tankers control the aggro and keep it off those ATs without those lovely shields and armor to take that incoming damage.
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Originally Posted by Dersk
If your team can't survive without a taunting tanker, your team sucks. If you had multiple defenders or controllers, you shouldn't even need the tank to try to manage agro at all. Blaming this on taunt is a cop-out.
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A pretty reasonable position. However, I feel that, even if one or more of my teammates suck, I'll keep them alive if I can. Unless they're so bad that they can cause a teamwipe - then I'll hang them out to dry.|
Originally Posted by TheNavigator
Taunt is a crutch to support bad team members that don't know how to handle themselves in a fight. Aggro is a team responsibility.
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Also, someone else said that all tanks but ice really need Taunt to hold aggro. I think that is an exaggeration. <ahem> To be fair, though, every one of my tanks EXCEPT my ice tank does have Taunt.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I would swap out Buildup. Buildup is nice, but it is not nessacary for you.
Additionally, Unstoppable can also be skipped.
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Then you've teamed with some bad tankers. I have a 50 Dark Armor/Fire tank and I have never had an issue getting and holding agro without taunt. The Taunt power is not the only tool at a tanker's disposal with a taunt component to it.
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Originally Posted by MurderousMalk
The Tanker AT's main purpose is to hold aggro as you said...the part I'm having trouble with is the some have it...some don't. The only Tanker Primary that can get away with no taunt is maybe Ice Armor. Past that, if your a tanker without taunt...your just a scrapper trying to be a tank in disguise. Over the past 2 weeks, I've team with various tankers without taunt and each time...they have face-planted the whole team because they could not hold the aggro so the squishie ATs could support/heal/buff that particular tanker.
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I ran a posi TF earlier on my low level tanker that had me questioning taking taunt. I was very surprised how well I was able to hold aggro on 5+ mobs just with my taunt aura and 2 single target attacks, and that was with a defender blowing the mobs all over the place with KB. On other tanks I've taken taunt but I always heavily slotted it because the taunt set bonuses are very nice, but with my SD/SM's build I just don't really have the room so as of right now I just have it slotted with the Psi damage proc on mid's, and I question it's worth if I'm not even gonna get any bonuses out of it.
I like taunt, but with how well I held aggro earlier with just AAO I'm not sure if I want it anymore. Of course, I don't really have anything else phenomenal to replace it with, One with the Shield maybe but that power doesn't impress me much. Plus being able to grab aggro quickly from far away can be very handy at times.
I don't really agree with calling it a crutch though. Calling something a crutch is basically the same as saying "I'm good because I don't need this, you're bad because you do", and I don't know about you but I just don't agree with that frame of mind.
I planned this all out after reading about how taunt doesn't matter. Then I played some boss farms with a different character and our tank was great.
I need taunt. Where do I put it?
+---------------------------------------------
+ Built with SuckerPunch's Online Planner
+ http://www.cohplanner.com
+---------------------------------------------
Name: Salt Speak
Level: 41
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Baseball Bat [War Mace]
+---------------------------------------------
01 => Bash
01 => Temp Invulnerability
02 => Dull Pain
04 => Jawbreaker
06 => Air Superiority
-------------------------I'm here
08 => Unyielding
10 => Hurdle
12 => Boxing
14 => Fly
16 => Build Up
18 => Invincibility
20 => Health
22 => Stamina
24 => Tough
26 => Tough Hide
28 => Whirling Mace
30 => Weave
32 => Unstoppable
35 => Shatter
38 => Crowd Control