Has this happened?

or same sex :/

OT: i don't agree with the "name is enough" approach. An Archangel (as well as a fictional marvel character) is also a generic angel. Now I'm no expert on law but as far as i was aware you copyright/trademark something in a category never mind something that already exists. (Angel, archangel, etc) You can however link a name to a likeness. Which is what the issue is here. But if there's no connection and you can prove that, then there's no reason to generalize the character.

An example would be an old faction on another game of mine named, Tetragrammaton. Someone petitioned the name because of something stupid like the film Equilibrium in which the government shares namesake. However, the faction argued and won the case that because there was no relevance to them and that the Tetragrammaton is in fact a hebrew phrase meaning four letter word. Not anything to do with the council of mad rulers.

Just like his/her character bares no resemblance to the marvel character or BIO (apparently)

Or here!


Eh. Back in the day, the gm's were auto renaming everyone on Victory with "storm" in their name. It really varies on the GM. Some are a bit more.... Out there then the others.


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But a super hero with a "name is enough"?

Aaaand now I want to make Arc-Angle, a crazed geometry teacher who mutated lightning powers.

That's a bad example, because that's not a comic book character. Trademarks are market specific. Also, 'Wolverine' destroys your claim that it can't be something generic... since I guarantee you that if a small publisher came out with a comic featuring a character named 'Wolverine'... even if it was NOTHING like Marvel's character... they'd get sued, and they'd lose.

Trademark law, also, is something that the owner is REQUIRED to be proactive about... if you trademark something, and others start using that trademark (in the same market, mind you!) without your permission, and you do nothing about it for long enough... you'll lose your trademark! The standard 'solution' to this problem is to sue the hell out of anyone that goes near your name (what DC and Marvel do, and did to NC), I've seen about 1 company that did the reverse and grant them a very limited license to use their name (it was a parody website making fun of them/their product), which was an excellent move from a PR point of view, as it made them look good, instead of like a bunch of heartless [censored]s.

And then, there's also copyright law. That's a whole 'nother mess altogether (oh, and then there's trade dress, which has to do with trademark).

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

None of which will get him the name back.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

So, are you like Starsky and Hutch, or Felix and Oscar?

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

What about Stan and Oliver?

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Currently listening to Rosen Maiden O.S.T. Leer Lied by Some Japanese Guy

The only thing he can do to get his name back is to escalate the support ticket and make a case for being unrelated to the marvel character, but in fact more so akin to the biblical thingimabober, or, go the crazy math teacher route.

Might win and get the name back, or might lose and... would be in the same spot he is now. If you (well, he) thinks he has a good case, he might as well. It's largely a judgment call by the GMs.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

The names and likenesses of Atlas and Valkyrie cannot be trademarked as they are from mythology.


Anyways, NCSoft tends to err on the side of caution when it comes to player characters. Your actions could possibly cause them to infringe, and they don't want you to be taking any risks for them. They could spend a lot of time and money determining what the case for infringement would be for each and every character that gets reported, but that's not really feasible. They instead take a shotgun to the issue.

When it comes to their own characters, however, they take whatever risks they want to. With those characters, they do spend time and money determining if a case could be made for infringement. Thus, they give themselves more courtesy.

And even then they ended up changing Bastion's name to Citadel.

He wont get the name back. One of the big BadgeHunters' main Badge toon was named 'Archangel Irene'; just using the 'Archangel' moniker in the descriptive sense, and he was unable to get the name reinstated when it was genericed. I think the rename was 'Seraph Irene' (or at least I know I suggested such to him in the forums during the crisis).

After the Marvel brouhaha (ie; Copyright Infringement lawsuit); NCsoft has taken proactive measures to insure no violation of IP law occurs. It is a convoluted area of law anyway; so GM actions may 'seem' strange or arbitrary, but they are only being cautious.

Yep. If they make an infringing character, it's their butts on the line. However, if YOU make an infringing character... it's STILL their butts on the line. So they don't have to be "fair" about what level of risk they're willing to take in regards to Valkyrie or Atlas as opposed to Joe-Ker and BattMann.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

In Bastion's case, even though it (probably) wasn't intentional, there are parallels to the X-Men villain of the same name.

Name, and the fact they they are both hyper advanced robots. I don't hang out by Citadel very often, so I don't remember if he looks remotely similar to Bastion (or his previous guise, Nimrod).

Mind you, if you have a generic-worthy name and initiate contact with a GM yourself for some reason, it may raise a flag that causes him to check for an infraction.

A "Valkyrie" with the braids, tin bra, magic sword, etc. etc. who looked too much like the Marvel image would indeed be at risk of infringing a trademark. The term Valkyrie is in the public domain, a comic book character named Valkyrie who looks like little wossername from the Marvel stable is not. NCSoft and the Bayreuth festival are in the clear (a soprano built like the Marvel Valkyrie wouldn't last through one performance as Bruenhilde - no staying power).

Similarly, a classic image of Atlas would be in the public domain, as is the name and mythos of Atlas, but the heroic image of the statue in front of city hall here in Paragon is absolutely tm to NCSoft.

Though mind you, if the guild/group Tetragrammaton was populated with black clad supergunmen and martial artists wearing very cool trench/frock coats, they would again be on thin ice. If they are referring to the God of the Torah, they are in the public domain (though liable to stoning if they actually SAY the Name of course).

I will say, a lot of complaints about names come from gamers with zero cultural capital, who think things like Tetragrammaton, Valkyries, arkaggeloi, etc. were invented in late 20th century pop culture. At that NCSoft plays it safe when the reference is directly in the comic market, given the market specific aspects of trademark law (and the "vigorous defense" requirement on trademark holders, which can lead to launch on warning legal staffs).

But Archangel can be?

So if I make an winged character with a broadsword and the name Archangel Michael, I risk being genericed? That's BS.

For that matter, how about any character who bears even the slightest resemblance to a Judeo-Christian angel? Should they be Gen'd because of their resemblance to the Marvel character?

Or how about a Soviet Super-Soldier named Kapitan Archangelsk (a city in Russia)?

I think the GM in this case was being too eager with the Gen-Hammer. If the character bore no other resemblance to the Marvel character, other than a similar (but NOT the same) name, then I don't see how it could be infringing.

Angels and archangels are a very common images in Judeo-Christian mythology, I don't agree that any character resembling them automatically is a ripoff of the Marvel character.

What's next, Generic anyone with a red cape, cuz they're clearly ripping off Superman?

Or Generic anyone with a spider motif, cuz their ripping off Spider-Man?

If that's the case, then remove the Claws and Regen powersets from the game, cuz those powersets can only be used for toons who rip off Wolverine.

I think most of the folks posting in this thread would agree with you. I don't think anyone has said, "Well, suck it up, you uncreative jerk!" (unless they were under the impression that the character in question bore a resemblance in costume or bio to the Marvel character Angel / Archangel).

The GMs in the game have been conditioned to err on the side of caution. Better to make the extra work for themselves responding to and reviewing the petition to overturn the generic than to allow a potential lawsuit to happen. Nor do these things happen in a vacuum. Somebody out there reported Arc.Angel- because they felt there was something EULA breaking about the character.

Maybe it wasn't the fact that the character resembled a Marvel character. Maybe there was something offensive in the bio. I have several angels myself. I could see a hypersensitive Christian taking offense to Allegro Seraph's bio. If it happens, I'll deal with it.

If it does happen, remember that the GM is just a guy doing their job, at the behest of another player who (presumably) believes that they are helping the game survive by reporting you.

You get to choose how you respond. You can get mad about it, or you can let it slide, or you can prepare your case and fight to get the name / costume / bio back.

I think there are a few Archangels on the Euro servers, Archangel so and so, and whatnot. So, actually, either they generic ALL of them (Not a good idea) or they say 'Sorry Marvel, you cant trademark them, since the Bible got there first!'

SUPER CHRIST AND JESUSMAN SAVE THE DAY!

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.