You want to trow sharks 100 ft away?
yes, at 50% damage deduction, its only 20 feet more.
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It isn't the damage that's killing people, it's the chance to crit. Just remove the chance to crit on Spirit Shark.|
Originally Posted by Kaatrina78
yes, at 50% damage deduction, its only 20 feet more.
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Honestly, the easiest fix to the Melee dilemma (IMO) is to give Melee powers a chance to detoggle travel powers such as CJ, SS, SJ. Then we could get rid of this craptastic travel supression system that is universally despised.
This suggestion would still be a long way from fixing PvP. However, I'll leave the rest of the PvP suggestions to the people who know what they're talking about.
How bout no travel suppression for melee?
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
Almost forgot, leave sharks alone.
Also, for the most part of what you said, I agree. But AS immunity? Coordinated efforts by stalkers should not be punished.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
I'm not sure why they didn't simply implement a much easier and much more obvious solution to balance pvp.
Stick a temporary power vendor in each zone which sells you a power which functions as both SJ and SS, for free, but can only be used in the zone, and wears off when you leave.
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Yea with the damage scaler nerf, a solo stalker is a bad joke at best, you need the coordination to be effective unless castle gives them their bite back. Right now they are toothless old cats, that want to eat but have no teeth so to speak.
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Originally Posted by Necromatic
Almost forgot, leave sharks alone.
Also, for the most part of what you said, I agree. But AS immunity? Coordinated efforts by stalkers should not be punished. |
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
Doesnt seem to be that way, do you play on Freedom? Because every stalker there even the one not fully Ioed out, seem to have no problem killing just about anything but a well build tank or regen scrapper with just an AS and shark crit
As for the AS immunity it makes perfect sense. At the moment there are way too many stalkers, pretty much have been since they were released. No offense but come to find most just playing for an easy button and the hide. I fear when going rogue comes out it will just be stalkers invading zones on both sides, PVP will become even more stupidly broken, not to mention boring. With an AS immunity (slight nerf) coupled with removal of interrupt (slight buff) it will insure that stalkers aren't the only AT on the field or atleast that they don't make up 50% or more of the zone pop, which on freedom its pretty high for RV atleast.
I would even go as far as suggesting that Brutes had their survivability toned down a bit, with the way it is, they have Tank surviability and better with some builds, and the damage of a scrapp. Not to mention bring other power pools on par with SS for tanks and brutes.
Quote:
Uhm....wow.|
Originally Posted by Kaatrina78
Doesnt seem to be that way, do you play on Freedom? Because every stalker there even the one not fully Ioed out, seem to have no problem killing just about anything but a well build tank or regen scrapper with just an AS and shark crit
As for the AS immunity it makes perfect sense. At the moment there are way too many stalkers, pretty much have been since they were released. No offense but come to find most just playing for an easy button and the hide. I fear when going rogue comes out it will just be stalkers invading zones on both sides, PVP will become even more stupidly broken, not to mention boring. With an AS immunity (slight nerf) coupled with removal of interrupt (slight buff) it will insure that stalkers aren't the only AT on the field or atleast that they don't make up 50% or more of the zone pop, which on freedom its pretty high for RV atleast. I would even go as far as suggesting that Brutes had their survivability toned down a bit, with the way it is, they have Tank surviability and better with some builds, and the damage of a scrapp. Not to mention bring other power pools on par with SS for tanks and brutes. |
No.
Just no.
Especially the Brute part.
And I'm not all too sure about your opening suggestions either...they don't sound like they'd do much more than bring even MORE imbalance to the current pvp system. And "buffing" Kheldians?!? Seriously? WS are a joke, but PB's are formidable, especially in zones, I don't see how on earth they could need any sort of "buffs" at this point. Research what you are asking, and really look at the "core" problem of pvp and try again. I don't think you're anywhere close to making it better, in fact, you'd make it much worse with those suggestions.
Try again.
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I have no idea why those two are even tied together. With so many IO sets (mostly melee sets) that have +% Regen on them its seems that was really really silly of them to DO that. Not only that there are at least two powersets that build around +regen.|
Originally Posted by Kaatrina78
Remove regen loss from Travel suppression.
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Another thing that bugs me and i may be imagining this but my IO'ed out AS strike dosent seem to be doing as much damage as I would have thought. You would think with the sitting there and waiting to go off it would do mass damage. On the other hand I had a SS/Stone tank hit me with a melee attack for like 300+ on a low ball attack (in a level 30 area).
*shrug* I guess lol pvp?
Quote:
You must play heroside primarily, you know, the side with more blasters than will ever be stalkers? You know the class where you can float around like a bloated balloon and snipe someone from range? Stalkers are also really easy to foil, and most squishy characters have the tools to be able to keep them out of stealth or being AS. Oddly enough the easiest way to foil a stalker is to not stop moving. Also get the leadership skill that adds +per or any other skill that adds +per. Its not hard and just a small bit of it reveals most stalkers.|
Originally Posted by Kaatrina78
Doesnt seem to be that way, do you play on Freedom? Because every stalker there even the one not fully Ioed out, seem to have no problem killing just about anything but a well build tank or regen scrapper with just an AS and shark crit
As for the AS immunity it makes perfect sense. At the moment there are way too many stalkers, pretty much have been since they were released. No offense but come to find most just playing for an easy button and the hide. I fear when going rogue comes out it will just be stalkers invading zones on both sides, PVP will become even more stupidly broken, not to mention boring. With an AS immunity (slight nerf) coupled with removal of interrupt (slight buff) it will insure that stalkers aren't the only AT on the field or atleast that they don't make up 50% or more of the zone pop, which on freedom its pretty high for RV atleast. I would even go as far as suggesting that Brutes had their survivability toned down a bit, with the way it is, they have Tank surviability and better with some builds, and the damage of a scrapp. Not to mention bring other power pools on par with SS for tanks and brutes. |
As for brutes, tank survivability? uhh..sure? Scrappers have that too. all you have to do is look in the scrapper forums to see the threads about some scrapper soloing AV's solo. Brutes by creation were made to be a cross between tank/scrapper but exceeding neither of those. As for doing more damage than scrappers its entirly possible, however they have to work up to it which, most of the time they wont really get to. Our only other melee class is stalkers (not counting VEATs) so yeah your gonna see both of them alot.
EDIT: Also most of those stalkers you pointed out are noob stalkers that belive just having stealth will give them the IWIN button, which anyone who has played the class knows is not true. If you want a true "IWIN!" stealth class go play the rogues in WoW, then come and look at stalkers again. Im almost 100% sure you will LOL at stalkers.
Here's a question though, how would having melee attacks dropping travel powers really help? Don't those basically have no recharge and you could pretty much just retoggle immediately?
Sooo
Seriously? Peacebringers are BLASTERS TIMES 5 in zones. Hard hitting attacks with SUPERB enhancable range, not including the +dam and +tohit from nova. Oh, and reconstructoin and dull pain clone certainly help, not to mention the phase. Did I mention Peacebringers are awesome? Oh yea, they are.
Warshades are like peacebringers without the heal, but at least they still do good damage.
Stalkers are SO easy to avoid its ridiculous. The problem comes in when you want to attack that dominater/corrupter/whatever and the stalker AS's you. You have to time your attacks so you are only on the ground for 1 second or less, aka attack in the air. Oh and if a stalker does AS you, just hibernate or use hoarfrost...pop a green or something? Seriously stalkers are such a small threat compared to the knockbacking dominaters and sappers etc.
I don't know what you are thinking but this list does almost nothing to fix pvp..
Generally not PvP fixing examples but here are comments on those that need it.
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HELL NO !|
Stalkers (yes the beaten dead horse topic of the OP AT) Remove interrupt on AS |
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| However when a player is struck by AS he is granted an immunity to any AS for 10 seconds |
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| We all hate the elusitivity nerf, I say increase it by 5% to a total 15% |
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| Reduce damage of Spirit Shark by 50%, reduce end cost by 1, and Cast time by 1 second, increase range to 100 |
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| Doesnt seem to be that way, do you play on Freedom? Because every stalker there even the one not fully Ioed out, seem to have no problem killing just about anything but a well build tank or regen scrapper with just an AS and shark crit |
Quote:
| I fear when going rogue comes out it will just be stalkers invading zones on both sides, PVP will become even more stupidly broken, not to mention boring. |
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| I would even go as far as suggesting that Brutes had their survivability toned down a bit, with the way it is, they have Tank surviability and better with some builds, and the damage of a scrapp |
Can I also add my own gripe??
NERF Heat Exahustion >.< blinking 1 hit kill button for melee AT, or fix it so that Geas recharges at the same rate!
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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It will..force someone to..re-toggle. Basicly it would only be effective on newbies and other people who melee (who are generally not running away anyway) but will do squat to anyone who fights at range, because the first rule of range is to stay AT range. It sadly would solve nothing, because about the only thing melee CAN fight is other melee unless they get the drop on ranged, even then it wouldent help really.
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Originally Posted by biff10426
Here's a question though, how would having melee attacks dropping travel powers really help? Don't those basically have no recharge and you could pretty much just retoggle immediately?
Sooo |
<qr>
ITT: people who can't pvp but think they can fix it.
Baddos, they already gave you i13. Please at least try to meet us half way and learn to play instead of dumbing it down any more.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
Quote:
^^ I can't read your posts for looking at that cute Guinea pig :P
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
<qr>
ITT: people who can't pvp but think they can fix it. Baddos, they already gave you i13. Please at least try to meet us half way and learn to play instead of dumbing it down any more. |
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Quote:
You mean something like this? |
Originally Posted by Ravens_NA
Yea with the damage scaler nerf, a solo stalker is a bad joke at best, you need the coordination to be effective unless castle gives them their bite back. Right now they are toothless old cats, that want to eat but have no teeth so to speak.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I was thrilled with the Science pack cuz I finally got payback on the creepy guy that kept trying to ERP with my tween heroine, by hitting the costume change and turning into a 10' tall monstrous escaped prisoner and telling him, "You gots a real purty mouf, now bendover and squeal like a pig fo yo daddy, cuz you my little puppy now!" Haven't seen him since.
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Yep, I've seen this fellow in RV a few times.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DarkMaster
Uhm....wow.
No. Just no. Especially the Brute part. And I'm not all too sure about your opening suggestions either...they don't sound like they'd do much more than bring even MORE imbalance to the current pvp system. And "buffing" Kheldians?!? Seriously? WS are a joke, but PB's are formidable, especially in zones, I don't see how on earth they could need any sort of "buffs" at this point. Research what you are asking, and really look at the "core" problem of pvp and try again. I don't think you're anywhere close to making it better, in fact, you'd make it much worse with those suggestions. Try again. |
Asked for constructive suggestions, not un-intelligent ones. Everything you just mentioned is wrong, except the hint that PBs are slightly better than WS because of the heal, however both need a boost. So research what you say like maybe perhaps actually look at the numbers, and read the original post once and awhile, you know the part asking for constructive suggestions.
Try again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SonicBang
Seriously? Peacebringers are BLASTERS TIMES 5 in zones. Hard hitting attacks with SUPERB enhancable range, not including the +dam and +tohit from nova. Oh, and reconstructoin and dull pain clone certainly help, not to mention the phase. Did I mention Peacebringers are awesome? Oh yea, they are.
Warshades are like peacebringers without the heal, but at least they still do good damage. Stalkers are SO easy to avoid its ridiculous. The problem comes in when you want to attack that dominater/corrupter/whatever and the stalker AS's you. You have to time your attacks so you are only on the ground for 1 second or less, aka attack in the air. Oh and if a stalker does AS you, just hibernate or use hoarfrost...pop a green or something? Seriously stalkers are such a small threat compared to the knockbacking dominaters and sappers etc. I don't know what you are thinking but this list does almost nothing to fix pvp.. |
PB are not blasters 5x in Zones. If they were than there would be tons of PB in the zone. Basically take what I said above to Darkmaster and repeat it here.
Stalkers AS is not easy to avoid. Clearly you don't play on Freedom, where most of the time if there is 30-40 people in the zone 15+ are stalkers. Considering also you can get it off on the move IF you know how to play yours, maybe that is the issue.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zanthar
You must play heroside primarily, you know, the side with more blasters than will ever be stalkers? You know the class where you can float around like a bloated balloon and snipe someone from range? Stalkers are also really easy to foil, and most squishy characters have the tools to be able to keep them out of stealth or being AS. Oddly enough the easiest way to foil a stalker is to not stop moving. Also get the leadership skill that adds +per or any other skill that adds +per. Its not hard and just a small bit of it reveals most stalkers.
As for brutes, tank survivability? uhh..sure? Scrappers have that too. all you have to do is look in the scrapper forums to see the threads about some scrapper soloing AV's solo. Brutes by creation were made to be a cross between tank/scrapper but exceeding neither of those. As for doing more damage than scrappers its entirly possible, however they have to work up to it which, most of the time they wont really get to. Our only other melee class is stalkers (not counting VEATs) so yeah your gonna see both of them alot. EDIT: Also most of those stalkers you pointed out are noob stalkers that belive just having stealth will give them the IWIN button, which anyone who has played the class knows is not true. If you want a true "IWIN!" stealth class go play the rogues in WoW, then come and look at stalkers again. Im almost 100% sure you will LOL at stalkers. |
Brutes have better than tank suvivability in most cases, however scrapper damage. It is supposed to be a mixture of both but NOT Excelling at both. It is not supposed to be on par with both or even very close.. That is the problem. Research, gain experience and knowledge, then comment on such constructively.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by CONFLICT
<qr>
ITT: people who can't pvp but think they can fix it. Baddos, they already gave you i13. Please at least try to meet us half way and learn to play instead of dumbing it down any more. |
I'm done here. Only a few of you actually read the original post, had the research done, and intelligently backed up any statement regarding. I thank you, and did not have to quote you.
Unfortunately Kaatrina78, the people on these boards( the ones that are left) have been through all this before... about 5( maybe 6.. I am tired and cant count today) issues of it. The nail in the coffin being pvp 2.0 2 issues back. I think you have genuine intentions. Players with much more experience than you( or me)have been politicking, suggesting, posting numbers,etc etc etc for a very long time. Most finally gave up.
My point: You didn't suggest anything new or different that hasn't been stated before in another Op. Whether acclaimed as a great idea or shot down as a bad idea . In short, Been there- done that- had this discussion 50 billion times and none of it makes a damn because the dev's do as they do with little regard for player feedback when it comes to pvp. Unless you're( understood you) a pve'er that MIGHT be enticed to TRY pvp.
My sincere apologies if I burst your bubble.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kaatrina78
I'm done here. Only a few of you actually read the original post, had the research done, and intelligently backed up any statement regarding. I thank you, and did not have to quote you. |
Quote:
Sonic knows how it is. Most good players will never get hit by as unless they want to speed up a fight. It so EASY TO AVOID AS also if u can fly u will never be hit by an as most of the time unless the stalker has a jet pack. When i play my stalker 50% of my as attacks are just luck that some one moved into its range.
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Originally Posted by SonicBang
Seriously? Peacebringers are BLASTERS TIMES 5 in zones. Hard hitting attacks with SUPERB enhancable range, not including the +dam and +tohit from nova. Oh, and reconstructoin and dull pain clone certainly help, not to mention the phase. Did I mention Peacebringers are awesome? Oh yea, they are.
Warshades are like peacebringers without the heal, but at least they still do good damage. Stalkers are SO easy to avoid its ridiculous. The problem comes in when you want to attack that dominater/corrupter/whatever and the stalker AS's you. You have to time your attacks so you are only on the ground for 1 second or less, aka attack in the air. Oh and if a stalker does AS you, just hibernate or use hoarfrost...pop a green or something? Seriously stalkers are such a small threat compared to the knockbacking dominaters and sappers etc. I don't know what you are thinking but this list does almost nothing to fix pvp.. |
Quote:
Oddy I do play on Freedom and havent seen that many stalkers in any zone, I think the most Ive seen is like..3. What zone are you playing with these 30-40 people in it? And if you think AS isnt easy to avoid you probably dont play stalkers at all. AS requires you to stand in one spot for a few seconds to 'charge' it up then to preform it. During this time anyone and their mother can interupt it or just run off, even if it goes off its damage is LOL to most anyone. |
Originally Posted by Kaatrina78
Stalkers AS is not easy to avoid. Clearly you don't play on Freedom, where most of the time if there is 30-40 people in the zone 15+ are stalkers. Considering also you can get it off on the move IF you know how to play yours, maybe that is the issue. Actually for your information, I have 31 50's and alot of villains. I make it a personal goal to log on whatever side is down or getting base camped for awhile. So either you don't play on Freedom or learn before YOU speak. Rinse and Repeat what I said about stalkers above...... Brutes have better than tank suvivability in most cases, however scrapper damage. It is supposed to be a mixture of both but NOT Excelling at both. It is not supposed to be on par with both or even very close.. That is the problem. Research, gain experience and knowledge, then comment on such constructively. |
Also just because I dont happen to agree with you dosent make my post less constructive. Its not like I told you "LRN2PLY N00B" or anything like that.
EDIT: the reason I assumed you just played heroside is the only two ATs you suggested needed being nerfed was the brute and the stalker (both being redsides melee ats). You said nothing about psi blasters or anything like that.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kaatrina78
again.... Please research what you say and actually look at the numbers.
PB are not blasters 5x in Zones. If they were than there would be tons of PB in the zone. Basically take what I said above to Darkmaster and repeat it here. Again.... Think before you speak and actually do research, You have nothing supporting this argument and nothing constructive. Also respond less childish please, your age is showing. I'm done here. Only a few of you actually read the original post, had the research done, and intelligently backed up any statement regarding. I thank you, and did not have to quote you. |
The reason you don't see peacebringers in the zone all the time is because peacebringers take ALOT more SKILL. With blasters you do 3 things. Attack, Run, or Phase.
With peacebringers there are ALOT more options to play, alot harder to make a good build, and alot harder to manage your toon. Yes, peacebringers are good. You don't see swarms of them because half the freedom chumps couldn't play a PB well. Sorry if you think I'm childish...I just call them like I see them.
Buffing/nerfing is not going to do much to the state of pvp, as you can see by MANY changes (melee toons' ranged damage scale, the VEAT nerf, etc.), all this kind of stuff does is create NEW FOTM's, which is certainly not what we want. The problem with pvp is not really OP'd archetypes at the moment, its the entire system as a whole. Read: Travel suppression.
Now these are just my opinions I have formulated through alot of experience. I was however never insane on calculations or great at fumbling numbers in my memory, so give some lee-way. I want some good feedback with constructive response, even though most of the time suggested changes never happen, only complaint zergs do.
Note: These are to help balance PVP and I did not spend alot of time fiddling of effectiveness on PVE.
Step by Step
First off the Kheldians... Yes OOOO AAAA The gimp so called EPIC ATs
I personally have a 50 of both WS and PB Ioed out for PVP and they are close to decent but the AT needs alot of work.
My suggested change for Kheldians in general do remove them from the back of the bus is:
Make Secondary toggles (+resist/def/cc and phase) Available in all forms.
Dwarf- Grant super jump (at 80% speed and height of normal SJ)
Nova- Increase Nova Blast damage by 15%
Remove end drain from dawn strike, and make Essence drain a targeted AOE instead of melee, and have range at 20.
Secondly, The VEATs, (Spider+Widow)
Increase AT (Racial) recov by 5%
Add in: Special ( all attacks have a chance drain targets life) thinking around 30 damage, 5% heal effected by set bonuses if any, at a 25% chance. Can crit with Widow/Bane Hide
Third: Stalkers (yes the beaten dead horse topic of the OP AT)
Remove interrupt on AS. However when a player is struck by AS he is granted an immunity to any AS for 10 seconds.
Fourth: General changes that will also balance the rest
Remove regen loss from Travel suppression.
greatly lessen all suppressions from flight (yes the red headed step child travel power its slowest and detoggles the easiest and costs the most end)
We all hate the elusitivity nerf, I say increase it by 5% to a total 15%
On Villain Anc/Epic pool, Leviathan the fotm choice.
Reduce damage of Spirit Shark by 50%, reduce end cost by 1, and Cast time by 1 second, increase range to 100
and lastly. To stop the LOLmelee for every AT except stalker, and everyone playing range.
Addition/Change- Have chance of toggle drop for SS and SJ increased greatly to be on par with flight when hit with melee attack (that has chance of)
WP, Reduce toggle drop for Rise to the challenge, it is broken completely.
Thanks for reading, I shall visit soon to check any replies.