Notes on new team difficulty settings
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2009-08-26 15:02 in The Market and Inventions
I missed the "End of boss farms". Do you just mean "end of 45's doorsitting in AE while one 50 does the work"? Or was there more to it?
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Custom Villain Groups|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
I missed the "End of boss farms". Do you just mean "end of 45's doorsitting in AE while one 50 does the work"? Or was there more to it?
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If a player has all three basic critter types in their CVG, they will receive full rewards for the mission. If one critter type is missing they will receive 50% rewards. If two critter types are missing they will receive 25% rewards, and if none of the core critter types are in the CVG, there are no rewards.
So, there can still be all boss farms, they will just give 25% rewards.
Yup the power-leveling in AE is over.
Unless they are using Dev created mobs already.
The supply of purples should sky-rocket.
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I encourage folks to run a few missions and track the data per mission.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Seems that there will no throttling or limiting of rewards at all as some of us feared there might be. This will certainly shake up the market in a massive way I suspect. Especially when combined with the end of boss farms, and reduced rewards for custom enemies in AE.
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# of Minions defeated
# of LTs defeated
# recipes dropped
# salvage dropped
Those in closed beta found a significant disparity between recipe drop rates (i16b vs. i15) and don't know if it's WAI. Salvage appears to be within specs, but more data may be needed.
Repeat Offenders
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I think that the word 'curtailed' is more accurate.
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Originally Posted by Jetpack
Yup the power-leveling in AE is over.
Unless they are using Dev created mobs already. |
Repeat Offenders
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Well most of the boss farms did use dev created enemies, they just made them a custom groups with only bosses.
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Originally Posted by Jetpack
Yup the power-leveling in AE is over.
Unless they are using Dev created mobs already. The supply of purples should sky-rocket. |
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This. Please. My 2500 formal (collected with all data above) and 2000 less formal (didn't count minions and lt's, only total mobs on the map) indicated to me that the overall recipe drop rate was significantly below where it's at on live. My observed %'s were well outside the margin of error.
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Originally Posted by Kitteh
I encourage folks to run a few missions and track the data per mission.
# of Minions defeated # of LTs defeated # recipes dropped # salvage dropped Those in closed beta found a significant disparity between recipe drop rates (i16b vs. i15) and don't know if it's WAI. Salvage appears to be within specs, but more data may be needed. |
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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I got something similar too in my testing. I went several missions without even so much as a common recipe drop. This leads me to believe they really want us to use merits now for recipes. All I can say is buy it up while you can folks. In a few weeks **** is going to really cost alot more.
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
This. Please. My 2500 formal (collected with all data above) and 2000 less formal (didn't count minions and lt's, only total mobs on the map) indicated to me that the overall recipe drop rate was significantly below where it's at on live. My observed %'s were well outside the margin of error.
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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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OK, if that is in fact happening, it also needs to be determined if it is only related to the enhanced difficulty settings (some type of throttling) or if it applies across the board. Should be easy to figure out by making a few runs on the wall in Cimerora solo.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I got something similar too in my testing. I went several missions without even so much as a common recipe drop. This leads me to believe they really want us to use merits now for recipes. All I can say is buy it up while you can folks. In a few weeks **** is going to really cost alot more.
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Also it's going to drive people back into the AE since Pool A/B recipes can be rolled there while Merits only allow for them to be purchased individually (at ridiculous prices).
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I got something similar too in my testing. I went several missions without even so much as a common recipe drop. This leads me to believe they really want us to use merits now for recipes. All I can say is buy it up while you can folks. In a few weeks **** is going to really cost alot more.
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I have posted a direct request for more info on this in the Current Issues thread. I had already PM'd Niviene during closed beta, and she responded saying she was passing it on, but I never got anything back.|
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
This. Please. My 2500 formal (collected with all data above) and 2000 less formal (didn't count minions and lt's, only total mobs on the map) indicated to me that the overall recipe drop rate was significantly below where it's at on live. My observed %'s were well outside the margin of error.
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Frankly, the lack of feedback on this topic has me quite angry. This is one of the most slogging, boring and time-consuming things any of us could have spent closed beta working on, and it would be vastly less time consuming just knowing if it's supposed to be different or not, because not knowing means we should be gathering data from live.
I don't suppose anyone has data comparing the ParagonWiki mob drop probabilities with actual farming rates from live?
* Looks for TopDoc...
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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We were told explicitly that it's not supposed to matter. Neither mob level nor virtual team size is supposed to affect it, according to pohsyb in the Test server beta channel.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
OK, if that is in fact happening, it also needs to be determined if it is only related to the enhanced difficulty settings (some type of throttling) or if it applies across the board. Should be easy to figure out by making a few runs on the wall in Cimerora solo.
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Whether it actually does is of course something different. In my testing, it does not appear to. You get roughly the same drop rates with a virtual size or one or six.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Very interesting. This should be just the shakeup AE needs to move more folks out into the "real world" of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. The AE dynamic is changing, and for the better I think. Very interesting indeed!
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Indeed. If this is something that's intended, I could have given more time to testing proliferated powersets and other facets of the difficulty slider. Or, you know - anything other than running the same map over and over, to the point of burnout. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Frankly, the lack of feedback on this topic has me quite angry. This is one of the most slogging, boring and time-consuming things any of us could have spent closed beta working on, and it would be vastly less time consuming just knowing if it's supposed to be different or not, because not knowing means we should be gathering data from live.
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My concern now is whether my testing (all on one map) reflects something specific to that map. I was getting about 1 recipe drop in 100 kills before we went open; I ran a few Rikti missions this evening and got about 1 in 72, though my overall sample size was much, much lower (less than 1/10th).
I may log on Live later and do some wall-running, to see what kind of drop rate I can show over a thousand or so kills.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
I did notice that your last post on this in closed showed drop rates quite meaningfully below my own. Your ratio of actual to expected was about half of mine. We were doing this on different maps with different foes. No idea if that means anything.
From what pohsyb said, I wouldn't expect it to be supposed to matter. If mob level and virtual team size aren't supposed to matter, it seems awfully far-fetched for mob faction or map to be supposed to.
Of course if it's a bug, anything is possible.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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well now I want to know what map you are running, as it may be then next anti-farming step follow timing the drek map, lowering the inf of the family map, if they are now lowering the drop rate on the demon map ... sigh ... tho I guess now you can just run radios set for 8 and do almost as well (and get a mission complete too)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
Indeed. If this is something that's intended, I could have given more time to testing proliferated powersets and other facets of the difficulty slider. Or, you know - anything other than running the same map over and over, to the point of burnout.
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Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
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What it felt like to me - and this is PURELY subjective - was that when I ran the map set for 1, a variation of the streak-breaker was active that got me an average of one recipe/run. At least twice, the last enemy on the map dropped a recipe, which was the only recipe I received on the run. Probably coincidence, but still, it made me wonder.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
From what pohsyb said, I wouldn't expect it to be supposed to matter. If mob level and virtual team size aren't supposed to matter, it seems awfully far-fetched for mob faction or map to be supposed to.
Of course if it's a bug, anything is possible. |
With 52-53 enemies on the map, an average of 1 recipe/map pushes me up to the same general range that you got, and I know you did a lot of your testing set to 1.
My runs set to 8 were the bulk of my observations (just flat-out more dudes to beat up...) and there, if there's a streakbreaker that is set to make sure you get at least one recipe/run, it's not going to activate as soon or as often. (The two runs with 344 enemies/map where I got zero recipe drops would tend to argue against the streakbreaker theory, of course.)
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud and trying to figure out what's going on. I do worry about the effects this change would have, if it's intended, but I trust that the devs know what they're doing and probably view my data as an aberrant blip on the drop-radar.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Gimping rewards would have fatally undermined the whole intent of the system.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Seems that there will no throttling or limiting of rewards at all as some of us feared there might be. |
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My City Was Gone
Did you try such maps at different difficulty specs?
After all, maybe being set for 8 players at -1 with no bosses initiates a "don't drop squat" script...
Or it could be a bug. Let's just see how things pan out before everyone packs their bags and leaves.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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Questions: did defeating that last enemy complete the mission? Was the recipe drop the result of mission completion? Did you have any time left on your Chronologist Day Job (which drops a recipe at mission end)?
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
What it felt like to me - and this is PURELY subjective - was that when I ran the map set for 1, a variation of the streak-breaker was active that got me an average of one recipe/run. At least twice, the last enemy on the map dropped a recipe, which was the only recipe I received on the run. Probably coincidence, but still, it made me wonder.
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Personally I hope that it is a bug and not WAI.
At my best guess the game might give you the influence and xp for all defeated mobs but the actual drops may only be off of the mobs that would have originally spawned for one person, using the current system. This might explain the lack of drops. Or seeming lack of drops.
My very small testing indicates what I believe to be expected drop rates. ~ half of liberate 8 spawn no boss, -1, I got 7 commons and an uncommon recipe
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I never completed the mission I was testing with, so I am certain I never got any variation on mish complete recipes.
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Originally Posted by Rodion
Questions: did defeating that last enemy complete the mission? Was the recipe drop the result of mission completion? Did you have any time left on your Chronologist Day Job (which drops a recipe at mission end)?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Nope. The mission is the "Retrieve Void Hunter Rifles" mission for Abyss. Defeating the last mob was simply defeating the last mob - the mission doesn't complete until the proper glowie is clicked, and I clicked no glowies. All drops received were Pool A, and because the mission never completed, Chronologist wouldn't have affected anything (though I didn't have the bonus active at any time). Mission was reset using /leaveteam.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
Questions: did defeating that last enemy complete the mission? Was the recipe drop the result of mission completion?
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| My very small testing indicates what I believe to be expected drop rates. ~ half of liberate 8 spawn no boss, -1, I got 7 commons and an uncommon recipe |
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
From here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=188142
- Choose to fight monsters between a -1 to +4 level difference from the player's level.
- Choose to set your personal team size (1-8).
- Choose if you want bosses to scale down to Lieutenants when soloing or not
- Choose to have AVs scale down to EBs.
Enhanced Difficulty Options: The old notoriety system has been removed and replaced with a new difficulty system of independent settings. You can now fine-tune the difficulty levels of the missions you play by telling the game exactly how you want to be treated:
The difficulty settings of the mission owner dictate how the mission is handled. Actual team size overrides any difficulty setting, so you will always get Arch-Villains if the team has 6 or more members. The difficulty setting is per task, so personal team member sizes do not add together.
You can change your difficulty settings at any Hero Corp.s Representative in Paragon City or Fateweaver in the Rogue Isles.
Seems that there will no throttling or limiting of rewards at all as some of us feared there might be. This will certainly shake up the market in a massive way I suspect. Especially when combined with the end of boss farms, and reduced rewards for custom enemies in AE.