I regularly skip "crown jewel" powers that do not fit my concept. Sometimes I have to pick up one on a respec though. Dual builds and respec trials...it's not set in stone.
So...what is it you *are* looking for people to comment on?
Suggestions for your build? Validation on your dislike of buffing with controllers?
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50s: Doc Sharpe (C:I/K), Malan Bloyth (S:BS/Sh), December Blue (T:I/I), Michael X (Mm:R/T), Ultraboy (C:R/K), Zzyxx (Night Widow), plus 4 retired/rerolled
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Particularly for a controller, Storm without Freezing Rain is frankly a subpar set, and I suspect you'll be disappointed. Tornado and Lightning Storm are fairly good powers, but beloved just as much for their looks and sounds as for their functionality. Steamy mist and Hurricane (repositioning is overrated, and unless you plan to forego hotfeet too, will be incompatible with what you do in fights) are also good but not fantastic powers.
I think you'll be much happier if you either resign yourself to FR (and hey, presumably you can color all those particles orange soon, and the splatter black), or play either a Dominator or a /TA or /Rad.
On the other hand:
If you don't want to play a controller (controllers buff), that's fine, but micromanaging the response to the thread to keep people from pointing out where your real problem lies-- an incoherent attitude toward playing a controller, is both futile and vaguely rude.
Control, frankly, is overrated-- you just don't need that much of it, and it just can't accomplish that much even at optimum. Controller builds live and die by their secondary.
Believe me, I understand the desire to "Contribute with JUST CONTROL!" but unfortunately, that turns out to be a weak contribution in CoH. It's sorta like playing a "Pure Healer."
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
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Thanks for the first part of your response. That's the kind of answer I was looking for.|
Originally Posted by Enantiodromos
Particularly for a controller, Storm without Freezing Rain is frankly a subpar set, and I suspect you'll be disappointed. Tornado and Lightning Storm are fairly good powers, but beloved just as much for their looks and sounds as for their functionality. Steamy mist and Hurricane (repositioning is overrated, and unless you plan to forego hotfeet too, will be incompatible with what you do in fights) are also good but not fantastic powers.
I think you'll be much happier if you either resign yourself to FR (and hey, presumably you can color all those particles orange soon, and the splatter black), or play either a Dominator or a /TA or /Rad. On the other hand: If you don't want to play a controller (controllers buff), that's fine, but micromanaging the response to the thread to keep people from pointing out where your real problem lies-- an incoherent attitude toward playing a controller, is both futile and vaguely rude. Control, frankly, is overrated-- you just don't need that much of it, and it just can't accomplish that much even at optimum. Controller builds live and die by their secondary. Believe me, I understand the desire to "Contribute with JUST CONTROL!" but unfortunately, that turns out to be a weak contribution in CoH. It's sorta like playing a "Pure Healer." |
Personally though, I find the second part of your response to be a bit rude, because you're implying that a) I can't have certain aspects of gameplay I don't find enjoyable, and b) that if I don't like buffing I can't or shouldn't play a controller.
I "micromangaged" my post to prevent responses like the latter half of yours, judging me based on what I don't like to do as if it makes me a horrible person.
With the upcoming power recoloring, you could go with Fire/Rad. The only 'team buff' in that is an AoE that also buffs you and your imps. Just make a macro telling people you will be casting AM in X seconds and then cast it at that time whether they manage to get there or not. If they can't get to your location in a reasonable time after you tell them AM is coming, they don't want the buff anyway.
I concur, skipping FR will feel a bit gimped. Aside from the two stuns, there's not a whole lot of synergy going on between the two sets.
My advice- wait for power customization, roll a Fire/Rad and change Rad's green to orange.It will look very tight, too!
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
FR is great, but if your making a concept build just do what ya like.
I gimp my builds all the time for thematic purpose's or just to try something different like taking leadership on a tank or taking the presence pool etc etc..
There's plenty of goodness on a fire/storm to play with..
perma jump is ---> /up 1
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a) is nonsense. I said nor implied that. b) is true. If you don't want to buff, it's silly to pretend you want to play a controller, and given that, nobody can take requests about power performance from you seriously in good faith.|
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
you're implying that a) I can't have certain aspects of gameplay I don't find enjoyable, and b) that if I don't like buffing I can't or shouldn't play a controller.
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There's a whole class of control + damage, if you have access to redside.
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| I "micromangaged" my post to prevent responses like the latter half of yours, judging me based on what I don't like to do as if it makes me a horrible person. |
That, also, does not make you a horrible person.
Have fun either way. I think I'd just go ahead and start leveling the toon now, and maybe by the time you have Freezing Rain, I16 will be here and you can recolor the thing to look like falling sparks.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
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If all controllers had to buff then all secondaries would have buffs you have to take a break to individually reapply on everyone every few fights, but some (Storm, Rad, TA, etc.) do not have such buffs, so you're theory that all controllers have to buff is false. (Yes, those sets have buffs but they're AoE buffs. I'm talking about buffs you have to put on each individual team member, which I find tedious and boring).|
Originally Posted by Enantiodromos
a) is nonsense. I said nor implied that. b) is true. If you don't want to buff, it's silly to pretend you want to play a controller, and given that, nobody can take requests about power performance from you seriously in good faith.
There's a whole class of control + damage, if you have access to redside. |
The thing that's ticking me off here is your notion that it's silly for me to want to play a controller to CONTROL, which is what I want to do. You're acting like the controller's secondary should really be the primary when it isn't. That's why it's called a secondary power set. It's secondary to what my true role is which is to CONTROL. If what you're saying was true then every controller should just role a defender instead since according to you controls are "overrated" and buffs are what it's all about.
In short, I'll play for the reasons I want to play, and you're quite arrogant to pretty much say "gtfo of the controller archetype if you don't want to buff".
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Conversely I'll ask you if you play a defender do you not expect to blast? Sometimes people take contrary comments as rude, when they aren't. Blunt maybe, but not necessarily rude. To right it off as "well I don't like buffing" is fine and good but you came here for opinions and sometimes you'll get one you don't like but that doesn't make it rude by any stretch.|
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
Thanks for the first part of your response. That's the kind of answer I was looking for.
Personally though, I find the second part of your response to be a bit rude, because you're implying that a) I can't have certain aspects of gameplay I don't find enjoyable, and b) that if I don't like buffing I can't or shouldn't play a controller. I "micromangaged" my post to prevent responses like the latter half of yours, judging me based on what I don't like to do as if it makes me a horrible person. |
The point Enan is trying to say is that part of being a controller is in fact what your secondary does. I'll throw in my opinion after playing quite a few to 50, "It's not that hard to do both." I'd pose to you that while a controller can bring tons to the table just with their primary alone they aren't even scratching their potential until they use their secondaries. A primary only controller is no different than pure healer build. Sure you can add something to a team but rarely are you adding enough to justify being good at it. That said there is nothing wrong with wanting to play a set that is more debuff oriented if you are so inclined, storm and TA are wonderful secondaries and add a ton to the table. Skipping one of the most important and powerful powers for concept reasons is surely your prerogative, but it will significantly make the build weaker than it could be.
Now don't get me wrong, I know that you are saying you don't enjoy buffing. That is your preference. But coming to the Controller forums and saying
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on a controller I feel I'm there to, you know, control, and buffing just seems to detract from that, at least for me because I'm OCD and have to keep buffs up 100% of the time on everyone. And please don't respond giving me tips on buffing as a controller, because frankly I don't care. I don't like buffing on a controller, period, end of story, and nothing anyone says will change my standpoint on that. Ever. |
Edit for clarity- It's a bit disingenuous to come to a forum and ask for advice, then turn around and make what would seem to be controversial remarks but then apply stipulations that noone respond to them. Not flaming you, just saying.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Yes but I only wanted advice on the one power, not on my decisions and personal preferences. That's why I said don't respond if that's what you're going to comment on, but people still decided to comment on it. I guess people just don't like people who don't play exactly the same as them...
And yes, I realize your secondary is part of your whole character, but I just don't like buffing. That's why I stay away from powersets like force field and sonic resonance etc. The only reason I brought it up was because I knew someone would probably reply with "well why don't you just go thermal to fit your theme?" so I thought I might nip it in the bud, but having played MMOs and being on forums for as long as I have I should have known people would comment on whatever they disagreed on despite it not even being the reason I created this thread.
Oh well, I got the answer I was looking for one way or the other I guess.....
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Never take the bait. Never. |
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
I "micromangaged" my post to prevent responses like the latter half of yours, judging me based on what I don't like to do as if it makes me a horrible person.
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Anyway, I do often skip powers I dont like in sets, but Freezing Rain is one of those that really is essential to the set. It isnt like taking Shiver instead of Arctic Air, or skipping Hot Feet. No, skipping Freezing Rain is like skipping Char or Flashfires.
As Enan said, though, you may well be able to color mod the Freezing Rain to make it look like Rain of Fire. That's what I came onto this thread to suggest.
Otherwise, you could try Fire/Trick Arrow. Lots of control, even from the secondary, and there is zero ability to buff others. Not sure if someone else suggested Fire/TA yet or not, I haven't finished reading the thread.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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That is exactly why I used words like preference or prerogative. I didn't tell you how to play by any means. Play as you like, doesn't change a thing about my life. But like I said you can't have it both ways. "Comment on this but not on that". Like Lewis said "don't take the bait". You could have just said, "I don't want to play a /thermal" and left it at that and noone would have thought twice about it. Instead you say, "XXXXX and I know you won't like it so don't say anything or I'll get all upset". That isn't very fair really. You put it out there and people are going to say something whether you like it or not. Sorry, just the truth.
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Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
Yes but I only wanted advice on the one power, not on my decisions and personal preferences. That's why I said don't respond if that's what you're going to comment on, but people still decided to comment on it. I guess people just don't like people who don't play exactly the same as them...
And yes, I realize your secondary is part of your whole character, but I just don't like buffing. That's why I stay away from powersets like force field and sonic resonance etc. The only reason I brought it up was because I knew someone would probably reply with "well why don't you just go thermal to fit your theme?" so I thought I might nip it in the bud, but having played MMOs and being on forums for as long as I have I should have known people would comment on whatever they disagreed on despite it not even being the reason I created this thread. Oh well, I got the answer I was looking for one way or the other I guess..... |
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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I thought the same myself, but it isn't always easy to make a perfectly precise post. It is natural to want to give some context to the query, rather than only the bare minimum. Trying to avoid leaving yourself open merely *creates* the opening, for those opponents with the right Prestige Class. |
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
You could have just said, "I don't want to play a /thermal" and left it at that
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Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
My real question to the Neg_rogue is what are you looking for in reply to your original post? Are you just looking for someone to validate you and tell you you aren't dumb? That's what it sounds like to me anytime I see a post like that with all kinds of qualifiers as to what kind of response you want to see.
If that's what you want then I guess I can say it's not dumb to skip FR if ALL that you care about is concept - provided you recognize how you will be shorting your character. The primary reason FR is the gem of storm is because FR has the sets DEF debuff. DEF debuff is a HUGE damage multiplier - both for you and your team as it is not bound by damage caps and where a damage bonus only multiplies your base damage, a DEF debuff will multiply ALL your damage. So if you skip FR you will solo a lot more slowly and you will add a lot less to a team.
Now when I16 comes out this all may be moot - odds are you will be able to change the appearance of the powers you find don't fit your concept so that they do, so if you are willing to live with loss of the extra damage until then I say go for it if you really like playing concept characters. On the other hand, the fact that you felt necessary to even post a question about this could mean you are not sure it is worth skipping - you will have to figure that out.
In summary - if you skip freezing rain you are mainly skipping a huge damage multiplier and a decent slow to stack on top of hot feet's slow, the knockdown isn't as important with a fire controller as you will generally lock down spawns with fire cages and that prevents KB/KU. Skipping snow storm means you miss out on storms primary damage mitigation prior to about L20, which is the recharge and movement slows in snowstorm. If you can live with these losses to your characters playability in exchange for concept then you are good to go.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
I've found that any power can be skipped.
It's your game and your playstyle. Do what you like.
That being said, I find that having Freezing Rain for myself, is valuable. The simplest way to put it is by example for me. I use my vet powers to add additional damage as I run solo (about 90% of the time). On a normal attack, my vet powers have an accuracy of about 65% - 75% based on the level and type of mob. Once I've used FR the same vet power will have 92% - 95% accuracy chance to hit. This makes it quite viable for me personally to not only take the power but to also make so so powers become extra useful.
Skipping it again is up to you, but it could make things easier for you and if you're teaming, the team as well.
As for the boards, some people become very zealous in their beliefs. You're going to find that on any board. I find that taking the good advise and ignoring the rest is best for ones blood pressure.
I hope it helps!
Demonfest - 50 - Demon / Thermal Mastermind
Covered Shadow - 50 - Dark Melee / Shield Scrapper
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I'm with the Cult of the Blue Bar; have a pamphlet. |
Originally Posted by Pans_Folley
As for the boards, some people become very zealous in their beliefs. You're going to find that on any board. I find that taking the good advise and ignoring the rest is best for ones blood pressure.
I hope it helps! |
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Freezing Rain is not only arguably the best power in Storm -- certainly the most consistently useful debuff in the set; it's also quite useful as a control. Control, I assume from your various posts in this thread, is very important to you.
Honestly, while I've been known to skip powers for concept reasons, if I had a concept that required my skipping Freezing Rain, I simply wouldn't play it. Almost every other power in the set is either heavily situational (that is to say, virtually unusable or even downright counter-productive to use in many circumstances), or mediocre.
Like Enan said, you can recolor FR after Issue 16's launch. How well you can recolor it, I can't say for sure, but you ought to be able to make the rain less icy looking. The sound effects will no doubt remain, though -- so if that's a problem, I'd seriously consider either accepting gimpness, or rolling a different concept.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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To the OP -- If you want to play a fire/Storm without Freezing Rain, have fun . . . but make sure you tell any potential teams that you are playing a concept character without what is arguably the best power in the set. It's not fair to gimp yourself and not reveal it up front. (It's kind of like a Illusion Controller not taking Phantom Army.)
Personally, I wouldn't do it. Concept only goes so far. If the character isn't fun to play, then I will abandon it soon enough. Every one of my Stormies took Freezing Rain as soon as it became available. Instead, try a Fire/Rad -- it is an awesome combo.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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While Freezing Rain is huge for -def, -res and damage mitigation by knockdown, in no way will you be 'gimping' yourself by not taking that power. I have a Fire/FF Controller and I can still rip through critters even though Force Field has zero debuffs.
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Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
So I was thinking of making a Fire/Storm controller, but due to concept reasons I wasn't going to take snow storm/freezing rain (pretty self-explanatory, I'm all about fire, don't want anything to do with cold). Now what concerns me is I just read a guide on Fire/Storm that pretty much declared freezing rain as the "crown jewel" of the storm set, and I'm worried about how severe my concept is going to interfere with my playability in not taking what might be the best power in the storm set.
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* Defraggler * Program Security Scan * PC Performance Scan *
Yeah and you can bludgeon someone with the butt of a gun, but you can get the job done quicker with a bullet. Just saying. :P
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Hmmm, if the concept says "no cold allowed" there is not much you can do without harming immersion. I guess with Power Customisation you could easily make both powers look as if they were heat-related (burning embers, ash and glowing coals), so until then you either have to live with a seriously weakened build or a little dent in your concept.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
I would wait till i16 but to be honest Freezing Rain is always up on my lvl 20 something toon and it's so worth it. Plus freezing rain helps you hit things easier! I could go into it's benefits but trust me keep itz and have its babiez.
Meh, I think one way or the other I was going to get criticized for not liking to buff. Either I come out with it up front or people keep asking me "why" until I confess.
Oh well, I'll probably just wait till I16 before I make this character. Thanks for the advice.
So I was thinking of making a Fire/Storm controller, but due to concept reasons I wasn't going to take snow storm/freezing rain (pretty self-explanatory, I'm all about fire, don't want anything to do with cold). Now what concerns me is I just read a guide on Fire/Storm that pretty much declared freezing rain as the "crown jewel" of the storm set, and I'm worried about how severe my concept is going to interfere with my playability in not taking what might be the best power in the storm set.
Now, I could go for a different secondary I guess. I mean, if I'm all about fire why don't I just go with thermal for my secondary? Answer: I hate, hate, hate buffing people. Well, let me rephrase that. I hate buffing people on a controller. I don't mind it on a defender since that's pretty much the main reason I'm on the team, but on a controller I feel I'm there to, you know, control, and buffing just seems to detract from that, at least for me because I'm OCD and have to keep buffs up 100% of the time on everyone.
And please don't respond giving me tips on buffing as a controller, because frankly I don't care. I don't like buffing on a controller, period, end of story, and nothing anyone says will change my standpoint on that. Ever. My only concern with this thread is how severe not taking freezing rain (and snow storm I guess) will effect the validity of my fire/storm controller.
Thanks in advance.