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Assuming a controller has to buff is foolish. I play fire/kin's without taking SB, Ill/Emp without taking heal other or clear mind, and FF without taking the single target shields. If you want a buff bot, invite a defender. I'm able to plow through things as a controller as if I were a tank, and anyone that is able to do that is much more useful than a buff bot.|
Originally Posted by Enantiodromos
a) is nonsense. I said nor implied that. b) is true. If you don't want to buff, it's silly to pretend you want to play a controller, and given that, nobody can take requests about power performance from you seriously in good faith.
There's a whole class of control + damage, if you have access to redside. |
Don't forget, the defender sets debuff as well as buff. You don't need single target buffs to be an acomplished controller.
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Neg, if you want to skip FR, then skip it. Honestly, I don't see the issue in skipping it since you are probably going to be using fire cages. The other powers in storm offer -def and -res, the only other thing FR will offer is KD and slow which will be negated my fire cages anyways.|
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
Seriously? I used TT on my Emp/DBlast defender as often as I could whether it was crucial to use it or not. It was arguably my favorite power in the Dark Blast set, mainly because it was so satisfying to use.
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Those two powers IMO butt heads enough to skip FR if it clashes with how you want to play your toon, and I see no reason to debate the fact that those two powers conflict.
As for buffing, I play controllers almost exclusivly, and while I do have some that buff, I buff very little, and usually only when asked. Most of the buffs I take as a controller are PBAoE buffs which I use without saying I'm using it. I'm of the mind that if you want to play a serious buffer, then play a defender. I have the same viewpoint on debuffs to though.
Understand though that people who are making suggestions about your style of playing are just that, suggestions. Take them seriously, or take them with a grain of salt. While I agree buffing/debuffing can be boring sometimes, it can make a team all that much better if all the tools in your aresonal are used.
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Which other powers in Storm offer -RES?|
Originally Posted by Folonius
Neg, if you want to skip FR, then skip it. Honestly, I don't see the issue in skipping it since you are probably going to be using fire cages. The other powers in storm offer -def and -res, the only other thing FR will offer is KD and slow which will be negated my fire cages anyways.
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| Those two powers IMO butt heads enough to skip FR if it clashes with how you want to play your toon, and I see no reason to debate the fact that those two powers conflict. |
On the other hand, if you're using FR primarily as a -RES and -DEF and -recharge power, then Fire Cages actually helps, in the sense that it will keep your opponents within the area of effect. Also, FR's -DEF debuff helps Fire Cages (which comes with an innate ToHit penalty) to hit, which is helpful when, say, you're counting on consistently applying Fire Cages to tether the targets of your Tornado.
It's not that a Fire/Storm without FR will be totally gimped, in the sense that it will be unplayable, or entirely ineffective. It's that there's very little point in rolling Storm in the first place if you skip FR. It is, bar-none, your most consistently applicable debuff power. To me, that translates to, "best debuff power," but I understand that some people may regard Hurricane as the best under appropriate circumstances.
Fire is good enough on its own that you will end up with a decent character, either way. But as far as most teams are concerned, you're basically half a Controller if you don't bring Freezing Rain to the table. Most groups (unfairly, IMO) aren't thrilled by Storm to begin with; imagine how happy they'd be if they noticed you didn't have the one power in the set that everyone does like.
Concept is concept, and no one can tell anyone else how important it should or shouldn't be -- but in my view, if the concept requires no Freezing Rain, then you'd be happier rolling a different concept, for the moment. Or waiting til Issue 16.
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| As for buffing, I play controllers almost exclusivly, and while I do have some that buff, I buff very little, and usually only when asked. Most of the buffs I take as a controller are PBAoE buffs which I use without saying I'm using it. |
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| I'm of the mind that if you want to play a serious buffer, then play a defender. I have the same viewpoint on debuffs to though. |
But like it or not, Controllers are "serious (de)uffer[s]." Control often can't get the job done by itself, and even when it does, the job of proactive damage mitigation isn't always necessary or even desirable. It doesn't, as a general rule, significantly increase exp/time, unless you're in a team which would regularly wipe without it. Buffs and debuffs often do.
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| Understand though that people who are making suggestions about your style of playing are just that, suggestions. Take them seriously, or take them with a grain of salt. While I agree buffing/debuffing can be boring sometimes, it can make a team all that much better if all the tools in your aresonal are used. |
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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You can play fire/storm without FR, but as others said it will kind of be gimped. slow, -recharge, knockdown, -res and -def all in one power (and decent numbers). It's almost a mini-controller and defender all in one click. Before some advice, I'd suggest taking it with 1 or 2 recharges (probably 2 without hasten). You don't need to use it most of the time, but against things like AVs it will be useful and people will be expecting it.
You say you want to control and fire isn't all that strong at control. Another primary, like earth, would probably be a better choice, but that probably does against your theme.
If you do you fire/storm, I'd concentrate on stuns. Stalagmites for your primary stun, then you can alternate fissure (APP) and thunder clap. I wouldn't build it without earth as the APP though. Your kill speed will be quite a bit slower without FR, so go for S/L defenses stacked with earth armor. Fortunately steamy mist will help with this. It should be easy to get between 10-20% def to other damage types and the resists in SM help against the types you are weak against. S/L should help against a majority of foes even in PvE. Be sure to take cinders for stun resistant foes, even if the recharge is too long.
Because fire is weak on the control side and you are skipping some of storms better powers I'd put a few slots in gale. It can be pretty useful as mitigation depending on the map, mob position and even works as an opener at times. Learn to use hurricane to properly debuff foes your mezes don't work so well against. Tornado and LS combined with hot feet will be your main damage, but do less due to not using FR making the stuns from fissure and thunderclap all that more important.
Depends on your defense numbers you *might* even consider taking smoke (god forbid). You could even try using bonfire as a control power.
Oh, it won't replace freezing rain, but getting the -res proc in tornado will help against hard targets. Doesn't proc that often though.
For role play reasons, to integrate freezing rain into your build, you could always say that you're sucking the heat out of the environment, rather than "causing" cold. (I think even the Human Torch in the FF did this on occasion).
(QR)
I personally think that Freezing Rain *is* a control as well as a debuff. I use it as such all the time. I'd put powers like tar patch, lingering radiation, howling twilight and benumb in the same categories...debuffs that can be used as controls.
I am a big fan of a concept character!
I don't think it can be argued that freezing rain is 'just that good', as it is. The real question is, are you willing to have a more difficult time with your character? What kind of options are available to you if you do not take this power?
Out of curiosity, if the concept is 'fire only' are you planning on taking *any* powers from your secondary? Steamy Mist? Not exactly fitting into a fire concept, at least no more than freezing rain. And if freezing rain does not fit in, how does Hurricane, Thunder Clap, Tornado and Lightning Storm?
Just trying to understand your concept.
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"Buffbot" is one of those one-word arguments that are used far more often than mean anything. If you play a fire/kin in the 22+ range who doesn't SB, you're massively underperforming your potential (including cases where it's because you're soloing). You'll obviously want to avoid intentionally massively underperforming-- it's something that will disappoint most players, and if that's how you're playing a fire/kin, you're effectively skating on people's [goodwill + ignorance of what you're doing]. |
Originally Posted by Folonius
Assuming a controller has to buff is foolish. I play fire/kin's without taking SB, Ill/Emp without taking heal other or clear mind, and FF without taking the single target shields. If you want a buff bot, invite a defender. I'm able to plow through things as a controller as if I were a tank, and anyone that is able to do that is much more useful than a buff bot.
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We don't "have to do" anything. See also my guide to the word necessary. Normative play often involves people being *kicked* for not SBing as a 22+ controller (as well they should be, though I rarely do this myself), and, if FR were more broadly understood, the same could be said for not using it.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
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