Soldiering: Your doing it wrong.
What you need is a VEAT team. Even 2 or 3 other VEATs teamed as one, and you suddenly see just why people like me like them so much.
There are very few things as damaging as a hail of Venom and Frag grenades, topped off by whatever AoE pain can also be dished out.
Also, what do you mean about the backpack? From the sound of it, you've got Wolf and Crab powers in the same character, and expect them to all use the backpack.
Yeah, sadly doesn't happen. Would be nice, but it doesn't. On the plus side, you do get some very natty attacks in the Crab pools.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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VEATs and HEATs have powers similar to what you've played in the game already, while at the same time having a few unique abilities to themselves.| On the blue side theres two freakin completely new types of powers to play with and a whole mess of stuff to choose from |
VEATs
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Venom Grenade (targeted aoe that does -res and -def while maintaining good damage)
Poisonous Ray (short range, pure toxic damage attack)
Surveillance (single target -res, -def debuff that doesn't aggro)
Omega Maneuver (mini nuke with a mag 3 taunt and stun attached)
Mind Link (self and team defense and tohit buff)
Foresight (mez protection, psi resistance and scaling resistance)
Poison Dart/Dart Burst (lethal/toxic attacks that also do -regen)
HEATs
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Bright/Dark Nova/Dwarf Forms (nobody else in the game can transform into a alien)
Photon Seekers (summon 3 mini nuke pets)
Glowing Touch (short range ally heal in a damage based AT)
Quantum Flight/Nebulous Form (Phase Shift forms that grant flight and +jump)
Dark Extraction (summon pet from a defeated enemy)
Stygian Circle (PBAoE that grants +hp and +end from defeated enemies around you)
Eclipse (PBAoE that grants +end and +res from enemies around you and debuffs their end and recovery)
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From what i read i dont think hes interested in the abilities of the power or the 'Unique ness'. I think he is refering to the look. I.E. you pull out your bane mace... the same one you get for picking Black Scorp as your patron.... or how bout that widow ever see a claws/ scrap? its kinda the same reason im not interested in SoA's either. Being super powerful on a 5 man SoA team means nuthing if the look of the character never draws ya in, heck i put up with 45 lvls of an SoA and it was all bleh and turned around and Purpled out a WS cuse i had so much fun playin it. Sad part is the SoA was made before the WS so your milage will very depending on what your lookin for.
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Originally Posted by Mr_DJ
VEATs and HEATs have powers similar to what you've played in the game already, while at the same time having some pretty good abilities to themselves.
VEATs - Venom Grenade Poisonous Ray Surveillance Frenzy Omega Maneuver Mind Link Foresight Poison Dart Dart Burst HEATs - Bright/Dark Nova/Dwarf Forms Photon Seekers Glowing Touch Quantum Flight/Nebulous Form Dark Extraction Stygian Circle Eclipse |
*shrug* I guess, it seems a bit silly though, when most powers in this game are copies of others, with just a different skin and effect.
my list could probably be a bit shorter...I'm sure someone will point it out, I need sleep 
Bah, the beauty of the VEATs is not the individual powers, but how those powers come together.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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This. A hundred, a thousand, a MILLION TIMES THIS.|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Bah, the beauty of the VEATs is not the individual powers, but how those powers come together.
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VEATs are just amazing.
@Mazzo Grave
Webmaster Grave, Virtueverse!
Energy/Energy Blaster Guide
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
you *******!!!!
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I'd like to add that epic does not mean, should not mean, and never was intended to mean "better" than other ATs.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be über... you're going to be sorely disappointed with the VEATs and HEATs.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Sorry but everytime someone posts something related to "Epics" why does this always always,always come up no one even mentioned em being 'Uber' or better then others the OP was imo seeking to understand why the powers all look exactly like the patron powers and imo they do as well. Heck none of the hero side AT's look exactly like the HEAT's powers althought some act/ are exactly the same just a recolor witch is how i think they shoulda done the VEAT's but o well guess ill stick to Hero side till GR and then i wont have to worry about the patron powers at all anymore.
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Originally Posted by DechsKaison
I'd like to add that epic does not mean, should not mean, and never was intended to mean "better" than other ATs.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be über... you're going to be sorely disappointed with the VEATs and HEATs. |
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Corrected. |
Originally Posted by DechsKaison
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be über... you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs.
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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
When you play a VEAT it's smooth and so loverly, my Night Widow is my main toon, it's pimped to hell i prefer it over the SS/WP and all the other so called amazing melee toons, not because it's better, but because it's a joy to play.
My Widow is pimped out more than i'd care to spend on a SS/WP or DM/Shield etcetc. It might not be as good at times due to little resistance etc, but it's jus the epic feel to them, they look play and sound amazing.
All i can say is i fecking love my Night Widow
You can't enjoy the greatness without levelling them properly and extracting the essence they provide when you tear the crap outta mobs.
Level one, slot one, enjoy one
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
I only have one fully purpled / 5x LotG'd / Miracle + Numina uniqued / HO'd character, and that's my Fortunata. I thought she was worth it.
-DR
Just sayin this whole game could use a nice makeover and some spicing up. Looks appeal more than seeing a bunch of orange numbers in the long run. Just sayin... if theres something you unlock in a game... like... hm... in WoW or something you want a character with NEW looks and NEW powers and NEW animations, not the same crap I see a scrapper or blaster using.
Still though...I sadly say I love my Huntsman... as crappy as his power may look... they make up for it when I see a bunch of dead bodies when the venom cloud disappears 
WoW's customization is a joke and I'm pretty sure they carbon copy their animations as well.
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They are different. The powers are not the only thing that defines the archetype. The ATs in general are a complete change from anything you can do on the villain side of the game and the hero side for that matter.|
Originally Posted by Renton_NA
Okay yeah I know a lot of people like these new SoA's but I find them a little boring.
I expected something a little more... interesting, you know with like different powers and stuff. |
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| On the blue side theres two freakin completely new types of powers to play with and a whole mess of stuff to choose from, but then you come to the red side, work all night and day to get to 50, make a Crab, Bane or Huntsman or whatever and you start to see you're handling the same weapons and pretty much the same powers you did with other toons. |
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| I understand that the archetypes follow a story and the damage and stuffs alright, but still the backpack shouldn't use the same weapons that a Wolf Spider would use and it shouldn't use bullets... at all. It should be strictly limited to energy attacks and the grenades should be changed slightly. And the omega maneuvers power... well thats just... a toy thats fun for the first... 3 seconds and then its boring and does poor dmg for the recharge it has. |
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| I'm not bashing the epics or anything. I get the whole feel for them since I do play one, but still the main powers and heck even the secondary powers could use a bit of rethinking. That goes for both widows and spiders. |
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| Everything is just... too much like everything else in the game... it makes the content stale... very stale. More well thought out powers, better animations and some new features for the SoA's would just make things fresher. |
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
The powers may be like many others in the game, but in a combination that you can't get in any other game.
VEATS are a mix of range, melee, defense, team buffs and pets that no other AT can easily get. They can use the same weapon for ranged and melee attacks, have built-in Leadership to make them welcome on any team, and can be built in many different ways. Their theme is to make them interesting, much how Kheldians are tied into the game lore to be something unique.
Besides, doesn't it make sense that you use your gun for gun attacks and your backpack for backpack attacks?
VEAT gives you REAL Epic feeling... HEAT doesn't.
I've made a PB to lvl 14 twice and WS to lvl 6. They all got deleted. Yeah, the changing form is kinda different but kinda sucks too. I know WS can get a lot better later but I have no patience for it.
VEATs start out ok and once everyone has maneuver, it's like one big Arachno Army murdering everything and anything with ease. That's the theme!
I actually really like VEAT theme. We see them and we fight them all the time. It's fun to be a Widow or Crab/Bane.
In fact, they should have given Longbow Warden to Hero.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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LOLWoW!!!
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Originally Posted by Renton_NA
Just sayin this whole game could use a nice makeover and some spicing up. Looks appeal more than seeing a bunch of orange numbers in the long run. Just sayin... if theres something you unlock in a game... like... hm... in WoW or something you want a character with NEW looks and NEW powers and NEW animations, not the same crap I see a scrapper or blaster using.
Still though...I sadly say I love my Huntsman... as crappy as his power may look... they make up for it when I see a bunch of dead bodies when the venom cloud disappears |
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
As a tribute the epicness of VEATs, my Crab Spider can tank almost anything an Invul Tanker can, not to mention I offer toggle group buffs (including a total of about 20% defense I give my team in return) without sacrificing DPS.
@Mazzo Grave
Webmaster Grave, Virtueverse!
Energy/Energy Blaster Guide
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
you *******!!!!
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I think whether you like or hate VEATs/HEATs depends very much on you as an individual and what you want from them - just like every other archetype in the game they're not to everyone's tastes.
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My experiences were somewhat different - my Spider felt weak until L24 when I could drop the gun attacks and get some decent attacks, my Widow felt weak until L24 and the endurance issues took even longer to solve, while my Warshade felt weak until L6 and then just kept getting better until I was a double-miring engine of destruction with zero downtime from L22+ (then I had 30 levels of fun levelling mostly in hazard zones) - but thankfully I did have patience, because I adore all 3 of them at L50 more than anything else in the game except my Archery blaster (which is also horrifically powerful) and I have consequently spent billions of inf on them. They all do things in different ways, but in their own style they just decimate all before them, are very survivable and always have lots of tactical options.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
VEAT gives you REAL Epic feeling... HEAT doesn't.
I've made a PB to lvl 14 twice and WS to lvl 6. They all got deleted. Yeah, the changing form is kinda different but kinda sucks too. I know WS can get a lot better later but I have no patience for it. |
Peacebringers... I know I need to level a PB as I'm working towards one of every AT at L50 (four to go... all blueside), but at first glance they just don't seem to have any especially awesome synergies like the 4 VEAT branches or Warshades have, which is why I haven't made one yet - to me they just look like a Warshade but without all the amazing powers I loved on my Warshade. I'm prepared to be proved wrong when I play one, but I just lack motivation so I'm sure PB will be the last archetype I play to L50 out of the current 14 in the game.
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I think that's the core of the OP's complaint. I can see where he's coming from and tend to agree. My Widow is a fantastically effective character, but is pretty much a Claws/SR with some terrific team buffs. |
Originally Posted by Mr_DJ
*shrug* I guess, it seems a bit silly though, when most powers in this game are copies of others, with just a different skin and effect.
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Occasionally the devs introduce a truly new set in terms of graphics and animations (Dual Blades and Shield Defense come to mind), and it's been a ton of work for BaBs every time. Even then, he was limited to the way the power system worked and the lack of programming resources. He has mentioned he wanted Sheild Charge to really be a literal charge but in the end they had to settle for the TP attack because that's what they could get to work.
I bet the new Earth Assault set that Sunstorm put together typifies the approach they've used to cobble together a set quickly. It'll recycle existing animations and all the work was basically in the spreadsheet controlling damage/end/recharge.
All that said, I'm very hopeful that we're going to see more true animation innovation over the next couple of years. They've added programmers and I think BaBs has help in the animation department now.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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Ugh. Just the opposite here. HEATs all the way. VEATs, I have to slog through. And to 14 and 6? That's barely learning anything about them. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
VEAT gives you REAL Epic feeling... HEAT doesn't.
I've made a PB to lvl 14 twice and WS to lvl 6. They all got deleted. Yeah, the changing form is kinda different but kinda sucks too. I know WS can get a lot better later but I have no patience for it. VEATs start out ok and once everyone has maneuver, it's like one big Arachno Army murdering everything and anything with ease. That's the theme! |
Khelds, I've got two 50 PBs, 1 50 WS and love playing them, with several others that get a turn along other levels. Plus they actually have a *storyline* that goes along with them, one I enjoy going through each time.
VEATs - a waste of 23 levels (but at least the first few have something vaguely like a storyline, after that it's a complete waste of time,) then you respec and "blah." One at 50 (Widow) that only got there because I wanted to see the rest of the utterly disappointing storyline, and was glad to get to 50 to just say she's *done* and stop playing her, one bane that's boring to play and seems to have one heck of a glass jaw, and others that I just can't bring myself to get to 24 and branch out - though eventually I will, just to see the other branches (and my overall goal of one of each AT to 50.) I find them roughly as enjoyable as a root canal sans anesthetic... performed by Doc Buzzsaw. (Edit: Though I'll admit the Crab playstyle still looks interesting, Widow and Bane have just sucked all the fun and anticipation out of VEATs for me. That and the horribly put together storyline.)
HEAT > VEAT, for me.
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All my SoA were leveled when they were introduced. There were so many VEATs for teaming that I rarely felt "under-powered". Just 2 or 3 VEATs with leaderships, I feel there is nothing we can't beat around our level. We've got mez protection, aoe damage and near god-mode defense.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Mayhem
I think whether you like or hate VEATs/HEATs depends very much on you as an individual and what you want from them - just like every other archetype in the game they're not to everyone's tastes.
My experiences were somewhat different - my Spider felt weak until L24 when I could drop the gun attacks and get some decent attacks, my Widow felt weak until L24 and the endurance issues took even longer to solve, while my Warshade felt weak until L6 and then just kept getting better until I was a double-miring engine of destruction with zero downtime from L22+ (then I had 30 levels of fun levelling mostly in hazard zones) - but thankfully I did have patience, because I adore all 3 of them at L50 more than anything else in the game except my Archery blaster (which is also horrifically powerful) and I have consequently spent billions of inf on them. They all do things in different ways, but in their own style they just decimate all before them, are very survivable and always have lots of tactical options. Peacebringers... I know I need to level a PB as I'm working towards one of every AT at L50 (four to go... all blueside), but at first glance they just don't seem to have any especially awesome synergies like the 4 VEAT branches or Warshades have, which is why I haven't made one yet - to me they just look like a Warshade but without all the amazing powers I loved on my Warshade. I'm prepared to be proved wrong when I play one, but I just lack motivation so I'm sure PB will be the last archetype I play to L50 out of the current 14 in the game. |
HEATs' form changing is definitely "different". They never give me the awesome feeling I've had with VEATs (well, Bane gave me less awesome feeling but that's another topic) and when I team with them in ITF (which is rare!), I barely notice what a PB can do that strikes me as "oh cool!". WS' pets are interesting. The funny thing is there are a lot more PB than WS created. Not sure how many people stick with PB. I know two of my friends hate PB with a passion. One of them has a PB at lvl 40 something and he keeps telling me not to make one which makes me want to make one even more! lol I'll wait for Gone Rogue to give PB another try.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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PBs are (a) more melee-oriented in human form, and (b) more of a "predictable" build - you always know you'll get X amount out of your self buffs and heals, and they'll be available as soon as they recharge. In exchange - you don't get the higher highs (or bigger risks) a Warshade brings along, with its reliance on enemies (alive or dead.)
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Originally Posted by Lord_Mayhem
Peacebringers... I know I need to level a PB as I'm working towards one of every AT at L50 (four to go... all blueside), but at first glance they just don't seem to have any especially awesome synergies like the 4 VEAT branches or Warshades have, which is why I haven't made one yet - to me they just look like a Warshade but without all the amazing powers I loved on my Warshade. I'm prepared to be proved wrong when I play one, but I just lack motivation so I'm sure PB will be the last archetype I play to L50 out of the current 14 in the game. |
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You are now the wisest man in this thread.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Mayhem
I'm prepared to be proved wrong
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Ware ni tatenu mono mashi!!
[There are none before me who have not been cleaved!!]
Okay yeah I know a lot of people like these new SoA's but I find them a little boring.
I expected something a little more... interesting, you know with like different powers and stuff.
On the blue side theres two freakin completely new types of powers to play with and a whole mess of stuff to choose from, but then you come to the red side, work all night and day to get to 50, make a Crab, Bane or Huntsman or whatever and you start to see you're handling the same weapons and pretty much the same powers you did with other toons.
I understand that the archetypes follow a story and the damage and stuffs alright, but still the backpack shouldn't use the same weapons that a Wolf Spider would use and it shouldn't use bullets... at all. It should be strictly limited to energy attacks and the grenades should be changed slightly. And the omega maneuvers power... well thats just... a toy thats fun for the first... 3 seconds and then its boring and does poor dmg for the recharge it has.
I'm not bashing the epics or anything. I get the whole feel for them since I do play one, but still the main powers and heck even the secondary powers could use a bit of rethinking. That goes for both widows and spiders.
Everything is just... too much like everything else in the game... it makes the content stale... very stale. More well thought out powers, better animations and some new features for the SoA's would just make things fresher.