I'm rich! (well, relatively)
By
ClawsandEffect,
Posted on: 2009-08-06 01:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Some time ago, before the days of purples, I picked up a high value drop from a mission. Can't remember what it was offhand, but I clearly remember that, in the AH, it had never sold for less than 45 million. There were no sellers for it at the time, and about 230 bidders.
"Awesome", thinks I. "Money in the bank!!"
So, to maximise my profit, I listed it for 5k. Seeing as the AH is meant to work on the principle of the highest bid winning, I was pretty much guaranteed to make a killing on it.
20 seconds later, it sold!
For 7.5k. 
I don't play the market anymore.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
On one of the first ITfs I even ran, I got two purples during the last mission. The only problem was that they were Fortunata Hypnosis and Coercive Persuasion
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What a guy! |
Originally Posted by Part_Troll
Ace Rimmer, my L41 Ice/Rad controller
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I know even know how the market works..
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
I don't play the market. |
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Ouch. I've been stung by lowballers before but never that badly. I quickly learnt: Never list something for less than your willing to get. The listing fee is refunded when a sale is made. Whether you list for 1 inf or list at 99M inf if the sale price is 100M your profit is the same.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
So, to maximise my profit, I listed it for 5k.
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Oh, and never trust the number of bidders as a sign of demand a single L50 character could account for 160 or more of those bids if they wanted to pad the count.
Congrats on your windfall! 
Were you trying to maximize your profit (and provided you could afford the risk) you could likely have listed the item for 270m, and it would've sold.
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You didn't actually save any money by listing it for less. The listing fee you pay is refunded in full when the item sells; you only lose it if you cancel the sale.
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Some time ago, before the days of purples, I picked up a high value drop from a mission. Can't remember what it was offhand, but I clearly remember that, in the AH, it had never sold for less than 45 million. There were no sellers for it at the time, and about 230 bidders.
"Awesome", thinks I. "Money in the bank!!" So, to maximise my profit, I listed it for 5k. Seeing as the AH is meant to work on the principle of the highest bid winning, I was pretty much guaranteed to make a killing on it. 20 seconds later, it sold! For 7.5k. |
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Yes, I know this NOW, but at the time I didn't plus, it wouldn't have made much difference as that char is always broke thanks to Icon. |
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
You didn't actually save any money by listing it for less. The listing fee you pay is refunded in full when the item sells; you only lose it if you cancel the sale.
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@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Bah. Never had a purple drop in my existence. Here's me with high levelers with vanilla IO or SO builds.
They still do their jobs...and do them with Honour and Dignity!
=P
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I got a Fortunata Sleep Acc/Sleep/Rech purple from a ITF run once. They don't sell for much, sadly. No problem, maybe someone in my Coalition can use it, right? I dropped a couple mil on some rares (this was before AE and tickets), crafted it up, started asking around.
There are two level 50 characters with Sleep powers (both Mind/ Controllers). One is slotting hers for damage. The other already has a Fortunata Sleep Acc/Sleep/Recharge.
There is one character who could use it, but he's redside.
So I threw the crafted enhancement in the SG's bin, and it's still languishing there.
Character index
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The closest bid wins the item - for example, everyone is bididng 200,000,000 Inf for an item, but one person is bidding 5 Inf.|
Originally Posted by Dr_HR
I know even know how the market works..
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If someone bids 10 Inf, they'll get the item ahead of those betting 200,000,000 million, because 5 is way closer to 10 than 200,000,000.
The reason why most people don't bid low is because most sellers set the price high - unless a player who gets a purple drop either doesn't care about making a profit, or is unaware of the value of the purple, it's very unlikely they'll set the price low.
That's what the last 5 sales window is for - it shows sellers and bidders the market worth of an item - if you see that an item is being bought for 200,000,000, then if you're a buyer, you'll bid that or higher for it, and if you're a seller, you'll set that as the price, or maybe even set it sligtly higher.
The last 5 sales window is a big factor in driving the constant price rises in WW/BM.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Not true. The highest bid always wins an item (except for certain extremely rare market glitches where bids don't seem to register after you've placed them). There is no way you can bid 10 influence and win the auction while anyone is still bidding 200m influence on the same item.
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Originally Posted by Golden_Girl_EU
The closest bid wins the item - for example, everyone is bididng 200,000,000 Inf for an item, but one person is bidding 5 Inf.
If someone bids 10 Inf, they'll get the item ahead of those betting 200,000,000 million, because 5 is way closer to 10 than 200,000,000. |
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I've always understood it to be the closest bid which always was weird because you'd think highest would make more sense. All I know for sure is when sell something low (1 or 5 infl) to sell it quickly it is always lower than the previous sells, where if it was taking the highest bid it would stay the same more often.
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Not true. The highest bid always wins an item (except for certain extremely rare market glitches where bids don't seem to register after you've placed them). There is no way you can bid 10 influence and win the auction while anyone is still bidding 200m influence on the same item.
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High sale prices are usually the result of people who want to "get it now". If there's 30 people offering an item at 19 500 inf, every person who puts in a bid of 20 000 inf will have it immediately filled. On the other hand, if someone puts in a bid at 17 500 inf, that bid will just sit there... until someone offers the same item for 500 inf, at which point the 17 500 inf buying bid will be the highest one.|
Originally Posted by Dragons_Bane
I've always understood it to be the closest bid which always was weird because you'd think highest would make more sense. All I know for sure is when sell something low (1 or 5 infl) to sell it quickly it is always lower than the previous sells, where if it was taking the highest bid it would stay the same more often.
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Just like patient sellers benefit from impatient buyers, the patient buyers benefit from impatient sellers.
Character index
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Thank you! That was essentially what I was trying to say but I had no idea how to say it properly.|
Originally Posted by Silver_Gale
High sale prices are usually the result of people who want to "get it now". If there's 30 people offering an item at 19 500 inf, every person who puts in a bid of 20 000 inf will have it immediately filled. On the other hand, if someone puts in a bid at 17 500 inf, that bid will just sit there... until someone offers the same item for 500 inf, at which point the 17 500 inf buying bid will be the highest one.
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Originally Posted by Silver_Gale
Just like patient sellers benefit from impatient buyers, the patient buyers benefit from impatient sellers.
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Good stuff, reminds me of the time I got two purples in one Lady Grey TF a long time ago, sadly from the same set (Gravitational Anchor) but oh well, purple is a purple.
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That is absolutely false.|
Originally Posted by Golden_Girl_EU
The closest bid wins the item - for example, everyone is bididng 200,000,000 Inf for an item, but one person is bidding 5 Inf.
If someone bids 10 Inf, they'll get the item ahead of those betting 200,000,000 million, because 5 is way closer to 10 than 200,000,000. |
Bidding is always HIGHEST bid above the asking price, gets the prize. That has always been the case with the market,
if you put up something for sale for 1 inf, someone has a bid of 100,000, someone else has 99,999,999, and someone else has bid 200,000,001, the 200,000,001 will win the bid process, and the 1inf 'thing' will get his 200M.
This is why I sell all my 'common' salvage for 333inf, even when they are 'worth' 100,000 or more at 'market prices', if someone is bidding high, I'll get their money even though I only put the item up for 333. This saves load of mental anguish. And contrary to some people's beliefs, selling common salvage at 333 -always- works. Someone will buy it even if it's common as dirt. If there is a run on stuff (like Alchemical Silver, which has been 60,000+ for over a year) I'll get my 60,000 for my alchemical silver, but I only bothered to put it up for 333.
For RARE RECIPES, I don't take such cavalier risks, because someone might very well get creative with their bidding, 10 @ 5, 10 @ 6, 10 @ 7 , etc. People see the number of bidders as 'people bidding near-or-at-current-market-rates, and it's not always true.
How else do you think recipes worth $,$$$,$$$ go for 111 at the market sometimes? It costs next to nothing to put up huge numbers of small bids. With 15 transaction slots, I can put up 15 * 10 lots of bids for, say, 20, and have 150 bidders on an item. The real bidders might still be out there, but if all the real bidders are gone, and all that is left are you 150 lowball bids, and someone puts up a 50M item for 1, you've just got yourself a bargain for just a few tens of inf, and one very surprised marketteer going Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
So if you have 85 bidding, you wouldn't expect a 45,000,000 item to only have a highest bid of 7,500, that's ridiculous.
I have noticed that the market number are very fluid. One second there were 75 bidding, the next there was one. I've crafted stuff for sale for 10M or so, only to have the previously 'bouyant' market of 0 for sale, 5 bids, to be -actually-, 0 for sale 0 bids.
That annoys me.
So does Tuesday, "surprise" Wednesday and "super surprise" Thursday maintenance IN ADDITION to Monday and Friday regular maintenance ... Grrrr.
Ex
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Ex.
Part-Troll, who used to be Excession777, now playing pantomime with people's mindlets.
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Thank you for saying it PT. I was reading this advice going, "wha...? That is ABSOLUTELY NOT how the auction market works in CoH/V!"|
Originally Posted by Part_Troll
That is absolutely false.
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I've been playing the market as of late on my three 50's and another soon to be 50. I really would like a few full purple sets someday. My luck stinks. I've only gotten 2 purple drops. Ever. And they were the few purple recipes that regularly trade BELOW 20 million a piece.
Anyways, after a week of playing the market, I'm all proud of getting up to 60+ million a piece on each of these characters (from starting balances around 10-18 million depending). Then I end up on a TF of all 50's the other night and two folks are casually noting how they each have over 1b. influence on their current characters and they are thinking about purpling out there second builds. Ugh. *shame*
To add injury to insult, come in here and read how the OP in a couple quick moments made over four times what each of my marketeering characters have. *sigh* Anyways, congrats OP. Buy something nice for yourself with all that dough. Maybe a night out on the town. And don't forget to tip your waiter at City of Gyros. That will be me trying to save up for my first full purple set before retirement!
Edit: A fool is me. I just realized that you are the OP P_T. Ahh well. Anyways, congrats on your dough. Still, don't forget to tip the waiter.
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Originally Posted by Dragons_Bane
I've always understood it to be the closest bid which always was weird because you'd think highest would make more sense. All I know for sure is when sell something low (1 or 5 infl) to sell it quickly it is always lower than the previous sells, where if it was taking the highest bid it would stay the same more often.
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That is because all the people that were bidding that high got their item already, so you were left with only the bidders that were not meeting the seller's minimum price.
If there are sales for 20 million in the last 5 and 30 people bidding on 1 or 2 items, chances are if you list it low, you will not get much. The 1 or 2 items are probably listed for around that 20 million and none of the other people want to pay that much, so they put bids in that are much lower. Their bid remains until they pull it down or until an item is put up for less than they are bidding. In that case the highest bidder that did not meet the price of the 2 that are already there will get the item. If they are listed at 20 million and someone has a 10 million bid in as the current highest, they will get an item listed from 1 inf to 10 million, but they will NOT get either of the ones sitting there listed at 20 million.
The last 5 is an indicator of what people are willing to pay, NOT an indicator of what you will sell something for. You can buy things for much lower than the last 5 if you are patient enough, because someone will come along and see the last 5 sales and think "If I list this for 1 inf I will get 20 million from it", when in reality most of those bids are probably people waiting for someone to do exactly that. Then you see a recent sale of 5,000, because someone listed one low hoping to get a lot of money without spending any.
I list mine just slightly under the last 5. If I see 20, 22, 19, 21, 30, I will list it at 18. I'm likely to make my sale somewhat faster than the person listing for 30, and will get close to the going rate for it. I might even get 29 million out of it because people got greedy and listed it for the highest of the last 5.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I once got two of the same purple (from the hold set) on an ITF. Odd luck.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
@ P_T: /e Maxi Priest song
@ Market experts: The high bid wins I know. But isn't that cancelled out by an exact match? If there are three bids on and item. 10 mil, 5 mil and 333inf, and me wanting to get the highest bid and puts it up for 333inf doesn't that bid win then?
//Jack
The Kickers base.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
-Groucho Marx
Grats, OP!
It is nice to get that lucky windfall, isn't it? (Well, for the person who gets it, at least....)
I had somewhat similar luck taking my first character up to 50 (via contact story arcs, not that AE thing. Maybe the luck was my reward for being patient....)
Got a purple drop on my second lv47 mission... whoops, it's Fortunata/Placate. Not worth much. Ah, but then I got a Hecatomb two hours later. Woot! And a Miracle proc from three random Merit picks! Woohoo! That character also found three Respec Recipes between levels 18 and 50.
(of course, the next 300 merits I spent on random recipe rolls were quite a bit less successful. Yay, gambling!)
....a decent chunk of that windfall has been turned into prestige to build my base with. I keep seeing all those nifty "base decorating" threads and wanting to try my hand at it.
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Eryq2, is that you posting under a second account?
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Originally Posted by Dr_HR
I know even know how the market works..
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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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No. The highest bid always wins. Guessing someone's minimum price does not get you the item at that price if someone is willing to pay millions more. As others have said when you see prices suddenly dip it's because there are likely a lot of low bids standing and the "need it now or at least later today" bids have all cleared. What you see at that moment is a standing low bid, potentially hundreds placed by one single player, peeking through a spike in market prices.|
Originally Posted by Jack_Power
@ Market experts: The high bid wins I know. But isn't that cancelled out by an exact match? If there are three bids on and item. 10 mil, 5 mil and 333inf, and me wanting to get the highest bid and puts it up for 333inf doesn't that bid win then?
//Jack |
Ties are also not decided by date and time of bid placed. I used to think this was true, but in learning how the market works, I tried flooding the same price from four characters on a particular item. 10 stack after 10 stack. The first stack bid out was NOT the first to fill. Nor was there any particular logic to which stacks had 7 items in them, which had none bought, which only had 1 or 3 bought. Beyond that, I don't have any more insight than you regarding how bidding ties are broken.
I imagine that it works the same in the other direction. If four different people suddenly put a luck charm up on the market at 10k each, I don't know how the system decides which of those four gets bought by a winning bid. I'd have to throw out a bunch of stacks at non "insta-sell" prices and see if there is any order to how those sales clear.
But when not dealing with price ties, high buying bid always wins and low selling bid always wins. Example of low selling bid: doing a flip of some uncommon salvage: one stack I priced at 20,002 a piece and the other at 20,001 a piece. The 20,001's all cleared before a single 20,002 priced piece moved. With this in mind there ARE selling strategies you can employ based on buyer assumptions to move your items before your competitors selling similar items at similar prices. But I don't want to go into those here...
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Listing it at 5K had ZERO impact on your profit. If it sells for 50 million, the market takes a cut of 5 million. Your listing fee is taken into account and the final deduction adjusted accordingly. If it sells for 50, the market gets 5 - no matter what price you listed it at.
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
So, to maximise my profit, I listed it for 5k. Seeing as the AH is meant to work on the principle of the highest bid winning, I was pretty much guaranteed to make a killing on it.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
The original post translates to this, at this time in the game.
"I am rich"
"Orly? How much u got?"
"10 cents"
/em boggles
On Wednesday (my time) I did an Imperious Task Force on Freedom with Ace Rimmer, my L41 Ice/Rad controller, and found a Purple recipe, a Hecatomb damage/something, which was worth upwards of 200Million on the market.
The last three sales were 210,000,000. 230,000,000, and 250,000,000. Since there were 0 for sale, and 75 bidding, I put it up for 222,222,222influence. It took 12 hours to sell, but today my L41 controller has over 280M in the bank
None of my characters have ever been over 200M before (I have 96+ characters, and rarely play L50's once they get there), so having two characters with over 250M each is a unique experience for me.
My L50 Fire/Kin controller "tiny tuff controller" rolled 80 reward merits last week, and in those four rolls, acquired a Luck of the Gambler 7.5% and the Numina +Regen/+Recov recipes, which both sold for a pretty penny.
Last night my L50 Fire/Fire Blaster, Archvillain Q rolled 40 merits, and got a Luck of the Gambler 7.5% recharge.
Which all adds up to lots of money for my characters on Freedom, Justice and Virtue.
Yay me.
Ex
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Ex.
Part-Troll, who used to be Excession777, now playing pantomime with people's mindlets.
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