a power we should all have for free
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-08-05 07:44 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I don't understand your post. Though I will say that all my characters know how to kick--they just don't all know how to do a flying jump-kick flip that does damage.
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my hero is a blaster class in order for me to be able to do a basic kick attack i have to buy it as a power and i think it should be a basic power like brawl im not talking about the upgraded kick attacks im talking about the basic one you can buy from the alt powers set and the tank info was just an observation question
i mean if im flying above you and your swinging a sword at me im going to kick you in the face to get some distance so i can blast you
Brawl customisation in I16?
One can hope.
As for the second half of the (slightly hazy) post, Evil will ALWAYS triumph over Good. Because Good simply isnt twisted and bitter enough to counter Evil plans -smirk-
In all seriousness, no. Good and Evil, game wise, are mostly equal. A Tank and Brute, for example: Tanker is as tough if not tougher than a Brute, and has little to no end problems. Brutes do more damage due to Fury, but most if not all suffer from endurance problems.
It evens out.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Or, just fly higher? |
Originally Posted by billie church
i mean if im flying above you and your swinging a sword at me im going to kick you in the face to get some distance so i can blast you
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If you aren't trained to kick well, a punch is a much better option. If your hand is not available, brawl's animation becomes a kick. If you have fly, you have Air Superiority open. If you didn't take it then obviously your character isn't trained or smart enough to do that because that's how you built him to be. A basic unpowered kick to try and knock back anyone who'd be able to fly and bother swinging a sword from the rogue isles or paragon city, probably would go along with that lack of intelligence though LOL.
There is no problem here as far as logic and reason.
Though I am all for more lowbie attacks. I loved the addition of the little ranged moves. One more starter power for all and I think we'd be good to go. A kick or second brawl would be redundant with the fighting pool powers though. More likely you'd see a melee version of the token ranged attacks. Mages doing a basic energy infused punch. Techs doing a little taser-shock punch. etc.
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A Tanker is tougher than a Brute unless both use set bonuses or teammate buffs to cap defenses. Tankers and Brutes have the same hit points and defense caps, but Brutes start at Scrapper defense levels and can't match a Tanker's durability using the same powersets without outside buffs or set bonuses.|
Originally Posted by Techbot_Alpha_EU
Brawl customisation in I16?
One can hope. As for the second half of the (slightly hazy) post, Evil will ALWAYS triumph over Good. Because Good simply isnt twisted and bitter enough to counter Evil plans -smirk- In all seriousness, no. Good and Evil, game wise, are mostly equal. A Tank and Brute, for example: Tanker is as tough if not tougher than a Brute, and has little to no end problems. Brutes do more damage due to Fury, but most if not all suffer from endurance problems. It evens out. |
Brutes start out doing about the same damage as Tankers, but then it gets boosted by Fury so that overall they do more damage than Tankers. Brutes have no more endurance problems than Tankers and actually do more damage per endurance using Fury. Brutes tend to run out of endurance faster because they spend less time taunting and more time attacking. Brute damage drops whenever they aren't attacking so they have a very good reason to not stop or slow down unless forced to do so.
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Some of the powersets do have a kick as the Brawl animation. If you go with Archery you will use a kick for brawling whenever your bow is out.|
Originally Posted by billie church
my hero is a blaster class in order for me to be able to do a basic kick attack i have to buy it as a power and i think it should be a basic power like brawl im not talking about the upgraded kick attacks im talking about the basic one you can buy from the alt powers set and the tank info was just an observation question
i mean if im flying above you and your swinging a sword at me im going to kick you in the face to get some distance so i can blast you |
The game's engine does not consider relative facing or position when fighting, so there's no way to tell it to use a kick animation just because you're above an enemy. If you're in range of an enemy your attack fires using the standard animation regardless of where you or the enemy are located relative to each other.
Brawl itself doesn't mean punch, just unrefined melee, so the Devs could've used a kick or a headbutt or even a puff of flatulence as the attack animation, but they used a simple punch instead. In the end your complaint is purely about the look of the power, but there's a good chance they might allow the kicking animation as an alternate animation in the future since issue 16 will be adding the capability to use alternate animations for powers.
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Tanks and Brutes don't have the same HP. Tanks have more than Brutes.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
A Tanker is tougher than a Brute unless both use set bonuses or teammate buffs to cap defenses. Tankers and Brutes have the same hit points and defense caps, but Brutes start at Scrapper defense levels and can't match a Tanker's durability using the same powersets without outside buffs or set bonuses.
Brutes start out doing about the same damage as Tankers, but then it gets boosted by Fury so that overall they do more damage than Tankers. Brutes have no more endurance problems than Tankers and actually do more damage per endurance using Fury. Brutes tend to run out of endurance faster because they spend less time taunting and more time attacking. Brute damage drops whenever they aren't attacking so they have a very good reason to not stop or slow down unless forced to do so. |
Tank: 1874
Brute: 1499
Also there isn't any set that they share that doesn't also have some sort of +RES, +regen, heal, or +HP along with DEF, so even if they're both DEF capped, not only does the Tank still have more HP, but he has more RES/regen/heal power.
Also, Tank damage scale is 0.80 and Brute is 0.75. Tanks start out slightly higher until Fury rolls in.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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You Ma'am are correct.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Tanks and Brutes don't have the same HP. Tanks have more than Brutes.
Tank: 1874 Brute: 1499 Also there isn't any set that they share that doesn't also have some sort of +RES, +regen, heal, or +HP along with DEF, so even if they're both DEF capped, not only does the Tank still have more HP, but he has more RES/regen/heal power. Also, Tank damage scale is 0.80 and Brute is 0.75. Tanks start out slightly higher until Fury rolls in. |
That's what i get for being imprecise.
(Which is why i gave no hard numbers at all.)
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Fixed!
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
You ma'am are correct.
That's what i get for being imprecise. (Which is why i gave no hard numbers at all.) |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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D'oh! Sorry about that. Fixed in the original. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
Fixed!
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Villain Tanks are low damage, low hp, with a pet summoning primary and a buff/debuff secondary.|
Originally Posted by billie church
also on a side note why are evil tanks high dmg and high hp while good tanks are mod dmg and high hp are we saying good is weaker than evil
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Brutes are villain scrappers.
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That was the original design concept, but Brutes are actually better at gathering and holding aggro for teammates in most actual play, which is where the role of tank is meaningful. Masterminds who dip into the presence pool can come close, but don't have the inherent taunt effects that Brutes do.
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Originally Posted by Roderick
Villain Tanks are low damage, low hp, with a pet summoning primary and a buff/debuff secondary.
Brutes are villain scrappers. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
if thats the case on tanks why is it when you go to make a new hero/villan if you look at brute it says high dmg high hp but when ya look at tank it has mod dmg high hp thats what i was asking about on that part if there supposed to be the same why not say so it just makes a tank sound weaker than the evil counterpart
but about the kick i made a tank i had to buy the kick attack and all it does is a basic im lifting my foot and kicking you attack not some super round house that sends ya flying like in a jet li film so why do we have to buy it as a super power thats what im refering to we should get it as a basic attack everyone knows how to punch n kick so instead of brawl one button we get punch and another we get a kick attack for basics powers come after if ya want to do the high flying bruce lee movie kicks n punches yea then i can see buying em as powers but to have to buy a basic skill we all know a birth i feel its a wasted power slot we shouldnt have to buy i mean if ya going to be that basic why not have a power to chew food we all know how to do it its a basic function a more cooler power would be something like shapeshifting to different forms x men has morpha shapshifter changes to any hero n get there powers n also has mystic same thing heck even teen titans has beast boy i cna see that beinga lot more useful n fun than wasting a power spot for a basic attack everyone knows at birth
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This debate again?|
Villain Tanks are low damage, low hp, with a pet summoning primary and a buff/debuff secondary. Brutes are villain scrappers. |
Brutes are brutes. Masterminds are masterminds, tanks are tanks, scrappers are scrappers.
However, brutes have access to certain powers, such as taunt, and good mitigation potential which can allow them to fill the role of a tank. Some of these brute powersets work really well with tanking, especially those with lots of AoE mitigation available to not only maintain aggro, but keep the damage at a reasonable level.
Certain masterminds can also design their build to tank, although they have issues holding aggro if they don't take provoke due to their lower threat level.
Yes, I've heard the developers intended the Mastermind to be a tank, where the pets were disposable. However, in gameplay, this just isn't practical. Resummoning and re-equipping pets is quite end-heavy. Further, certain ranged sets like Mercs, Bots, and Thugs usually like to stay back and blast away, rather than charge in.
In short, they play exactly like their name implies. So, please, stop trying to pigeonhole each AT into another AT. You can, but it works better if you try to make them perform as best as they can within their ability.
OP - learn to use your shift key, the ".", Capitalization, and line breaks. This last post is nigh unreadable.
I *think* you are referring to the "Kick" power from the "Fighting" power pool - which if so, is meant to be a low damage power as it is a tier one in the pool. A higher damage kick that would send a foe flying would need to be trained and is therefore part of the "Martial Arts" powerset for Scrappers and Stalkers.
In RL, most people cannot kick someone hard enough and with enough skill to send them flying.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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First: There are these keys on your keyboard that are not letters . . . they are called punctuation keys. Using them helps people read and understand what you have written. Using an occasional period (.) and comma (,) and maybe even a question mark (?) will do wonders. You also have a Shift key for capitals, and an Enter key to break groups of thoughts into paragraphs. Try using all these special keys if you want people to understand what you are trying to say.|
Originally Posted by billie church
if thats the case on tanks why is it when you go to make a new hero/villan if you look at brute it says high dmg high hp but when ya look at tank it has mod dmg high hp thats what i was asking about on that part if there supposed to be the same why not say so it just makes a tank sound weaker than the evil counterpart
but about the kick i made a tank i had to buy the kick attack and all it does is a basic im lifting my foot and kicking you attack not some super round house that sends ya flying like in a jet li film so why do we have to buy it as a super power thats what im refering to we should get it as a basic attack everyone knows how to punch n kick so instead of brawl one button we get punch and another we get a kick attack for basics powers come after if ya want to do the high flying bruce lee movie kicks n punches yea then i can see buying em as powers but to have to buy a basic skill we all know a birth i feel its a wasted power slot we shouldnt have to buy i mean if ya going to be that basic why not have a power to chew food we all know how to do it its a basic function a more cooler power would be something like shapeshifting to different forms x men has morpha shapshifter changes to any hero n get there powers n also has mystic same thing heck even teen titans has beast boy i cna see that beinga lot more useful n fun than wasting a power spot for a basic attack everyone knows at birth |
Second: The descriptions of archtypes and powers are imprecise. High damage in one set may not be high damage in another. Back in the days when Cryptic was running the show, "Statesman" didn't want players to have specific numbers, so the descriptions of powers used comparison descriptions instead of numbers. (Maybe that's why they were named, "Cryptic?") Our current Developers changed that by allowing us access to the numbers, but the power descriptions have not been changed.
Don't read much into the power descriptions, other than the fact that Minor is less than Moderate, which is less than High, which is less than Superior within one power set. When comparing power sets, use the actual numbers and not the descriptions.
On the Kick attack: When you "buy" it as an attack, you can think of it as training yourself to use this attack in a better way than a guy off the street. Your technique allows you to do more damage than the average guy. You can think of Brawl vs Boxing the same way.
Don't get too caught up in real-life comparisons. Certain things are done for game balance, even if they don't make sense. A prime example is the Propel power for Gravity controllers. One time, my Grav controller will throw a roll of pink fiberglass insulation that looks nice and fluffy, and the next time, he will throw a forklift . . . but both times, he will do the exact same amount of damage. It doesn't make sense but it had to work that way to balance the game.
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The AT descriptions only have "low", "medium" and "high", there isn't enough precision in such a simple ranking to clearly show the difference between Tanker HP and Brute HP. You certainly couldn't call a Brute's HP "moderate", it's the second highest in the game. But it's NOT as high as the Tanker. |
Originally Posted by billie church
if thats the case on tanks why is it when you go to make a new hero/villan if you look at brute it says high dmg high hp but when ya look at tank it has mod dmg high hp
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And evil being stronger is only if you look at those two stats alone, without looking at any of the other abilities of the Archetype as it is described. Tankers have way more defense than Brutes, and take less damage when hit, above and beyond their higher HP.
So yes, villains are stronger and do more damage than heroes. Heroes are tougher, steadier and more consistent, and work better as teams.
As for kick, as already mentioned, Brawl is a kick attack for many weapons sets. If you have a hand free, though, why are you going to kick someone instead of punch them? A kick is slower, and leaves you more open for a counterattack. I would like to see Brawl customizable so you can do a kick, but given the choice, I think most people would go with the punch.
Also, while you may be able to punch or kick anyone naturally, because it's a "basic skill you know from birth", you do NOT know how to punch or kick someone who is wearing a suit of armor, or whose skin is made of rock, or who is surrounded in energy shell. You know the ordinary people with the punches and kicks that they learned from birth? Those are the people on the street getting mugged by the Hellions and Outcasts and calling for you to help them. Unless you have super strength, or claws on your hands, or know how to aim for a pressure point, you'll probably break your fist before you do any real damage.
That's why your Blaster blasts with a machine gun or uses punches charged with energy, instead of trying to use his bare fists. Mind you, I would love to see a Martial Arts Secondary that mixes some kicks with Energy Manipulation type self buffs.
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Originally Posted by billie church
i think the kick power should be free to everyone i mean we all know how to kick someone why do we have to buy this basic ability a better new power to buy would be something like metamorphing into diff creatures instead also on a side note why are evil tanks high dmg and high hp while good tanks are mod dmg and high hp are we saying good is weaker than evil
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Originally Posted by billie church
my hero is a blaster class in order for me to be able to do a basic kick attack i have to buy it as a power and i think it should be a basic power like brawl im not talking about the upgraded kick attacks im talking about the basic one you can buy from the alt powers set and the tank info was just an observation question
i mean if im flying above you and your swinging a sword at me im going to kick you in the face to get some distance so i can blast you |
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Originally Posted by billie church
if thats the case on tanks why is it when you go to make a new hero/villan if you look at brute it says high dmg high hp but when ya look at tank it has mod dmg high hp thats what i was asking about on that part if there supposed to be the same why not say so it just makes a tank sound weaker than the evil counterpart
but about the kick i made a tank i had to buy the kick attack and all it does is a basic im lifting my foot and kicking you attack not some super round house that sends ya flying like in a jet li film so why do we have to buy it as a super power thats what im refering to we should get it as a basic attack everyone knows how to punch n kick so instead of brawl one button we get punch and another we get a kick attack for basics powers come after if ya want to do the high flying bruce lee movie kicks n punches yea then i can see buying em as powers but to have to buy a basic skill we all know a birth i feel its a wasted power slot we shouldnt have to buy i mean if ya going to be that basic why not have a power to chew food we all know how to do it its a basic function a more cooler power would be something like shapeshifting to different forms x men has morpha shapshifter changes to any hero n get there powers n also has mystic same thing heck even teen titans has beast boy i cna see that beinga lot more useful n fun than wasting a power spot for a basic attack everyone knows at birth |
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whats a nubian?
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Queen Amidala! HellOOoo!! |
Originally Posted by Captain_Freak
whats a nubian?
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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
I might be able to give some sensible advice on your problem, but I have to admit I couldn't understand a thing. While this wall of text that you posted might fill your criteria for sentences (a string of [any] words = sentence ?), you'll need to add some punctuation if you want other people to understand it.
i mean what if we all wrote our posts like this no one could understand us and whats the deal with people living in europe why they posting here too its insane also why blasters got ranged attacks and scrappers dont they are both damage dealers whats the deal with this oh and can someone tell me how to understand whatever the op is trying to tell us i dont understand why do i need to buy the power full auto from assault rifle i mean everyone can pull down the trigger and shoot its not so hard everyone been in army can do that i mean i been in army i can do that everyone else can too
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
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Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Give 5 different types of brawls to lvl 1 characters? Sounds interesting.
All with animations and recharge times identical to brawl.
that would actually be quite fun. Button spamming at it's finest.
no not 5 kinds of brawl we need brawl kick punch that sort of stuff u understand what im saying i mean we can punch already we dont need more brawl we need kick i mean we all know kick a birth why cant we do it in game
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
i think the kick power should be free to everyone i mean we all know how to kick someone why do we have to buy this basic ability a better new power to buy would be something like metamorphing into diff creatures instead also on a side note why are evil tanks high dmg and high hp while good tanks are mod dmg and high hp are we saying good is weaker than evil