Remember when hitting 50 was actually an accomplishment?
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2009-08-03 07:02 in Player Questions
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Actually no. The Ouro portal makes it even easier.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
If you've never played the game before, you will probably figure out the train pretty quickly... but Bricks requires, at the easiest, a Wentport and a train. Second easiest is probably Pocket D to Talos to Bricks, but for that one you are in actual danger for some of the run to the train.
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Ouro portal to Talos, IP or FF , then train to Bricks.
With Talos, it's a run down the hill.
With IP, you simply cross the street to the train.
With FF, you simply cross the street to the train. The worst is if a sniper has spawned on one of the roofs behind you.
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I've heard of a 35+ Invul who only ran invincibility and acrobatics - the later because he was tired of KB - for toggles.|
Originally Posted by Mr_DJ
Stone Tank with no Earth's Embrace or Rooted (because it made them move slow) yet had Granite >.>
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And I trust my source, who mentioned the guy's /info showing Unyielding, and other toggles.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Well I still feel it was an accomplishment for me. I soloed missions and it took about 4 months to hit 50. Albeit, its probably much easier now than when you did it; but I wasn't PLd in any stretch of the imagination.|
Originally Posted by doc_heal
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In regards to the ***** newbie who made the comment, getting to 50 in a day does not a good player make. I would have so loved to watch you rip his head from his shoulders for even attempting to say such a thing.
I've never pld in any game, I enjoy game content and I enjoy feeling like I work at it. Anyone who uses AE and tries to tell someone they suck for not using it, or being around before it even existed sorely needs an education.
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Still is an accomplishment for those who have accomplished something.
As to the rest, really don't care. Teach the folks who are teachable, ignore the rest (that's not counting the new players who figure stuff out on their own).
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
But, you have to be at least 25 to use Oro. So, you can't just pop in there at one to get to Bricks.
Still, all you need it a SG with a base teleporter to there. Not hard to find.
I honestly don't see why this bothers some people. Yeah, I mean I can see you wanting others to put the same effort you had to to get to the same place, but ultimately you can just not play with them right? Your content is still there, by going out and doing it you should be meeting other like minded individuals and all that.
Besides, the proof really shows itself when you do play actual content with them. Having your non-buffed brute out surviving their higher level tank because you know how to play your character and they don't is kinda fun.
So, why not just play, have fun, and well...let them deal with the fact that they missed all the good stories between 1 and 50 that weren't in the MA system.
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Agreed! I myself have been around since beta and I have seen any number of things that have caused a rash of neophyte 50s running around with no idea how to play the game. I normally just avoid them if at all possible. The developers have proven in the past that they are more than willing to crack down on the more egregious examples of power leveling. Therefore that which is left must be considered acceptable. For me personally, 50 is a journey not a goal which may explain why I have only two level 50 characters after more than 5 years of game play. |
Originally Posted by SunGryphon
I just wanted to touch on this. AE is -marketed- as an alternate route from 1-50. If a player did 1-50 in 2 days doing all newspaper missions, would you still be upset? How about if a player did 1-50 by tagging along on a praetorian arc over and over? Or by farming in the Fab?
All are viable routes to 50. All can produce the same inept players when handled improperly, so please don't blame AE for doing what it was meant to do - level players 1-50. Blame the players that level newbies 1-50 in 2 days. |
In that 5 years I have also come to the conclusion that the winterlord babies and Rikti kittens will not go away anytime soon. I don't agree with what they do but I can't control them so I don't let it worry me.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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Originally Posted by doc_heal
I've been playing since the came came out in 2004 and my first few 50's took months, even a year on some of missions, TF's, hunting, etc.
I know there has always been farming and ways of getting gobs of xp easier then running missions and all that, but it just seems that now its too easy and quick to get a 50. And it really hit home this last 2xp weekend with AE. I was teaming with some people on my 50 tank and we were talking and one of the other 50's brought up how long did it take to get to 50. I told him it took my tank like 8 months or so of constant playing to get 50. Then he says 'Oh I just got the game the other day and hit 50 already, you must not be a very good player.' Pushing back the images in my mind of ripping him to shreds, I explained to him how life was before AE, half debt in missions, patrol xp, all the ways that debt became a joke and leveling was a joke. He says 'I'm sure glad I didn't play back then.' To be fair, I also have done farming and AE farming to get new toons a decent level so I really can't throw stones but somehow the whole thing just seems....unfair in a way. A lot of us vets busted our butts to get 50's and then along comes brand new players who say gee - I'll make a 50, and then in about 3 days of doing AE, they have a 50. Now when a 50 has to ask how to get to Steel Canyon - thats just wrong. Plus when a loading screen says 'You can level from 1-50 within Mission Architect' - to me that just sends the wrong message to new players. It's like saying - you want a 50 - do AE and you won't have to play the game. I have a friend who was doing a lvl 44 respec with a lot of noob toons that leveled in AE and he told me the whole thing was an absolute disaster because none of them had any experience with their toons. The most they have done is spam button pressing in AE farms and watch their levels go up. This is of course all my opinion and I'm sure a lot of people will find me wrong, but I feel the game has lost a big part of it's appeal - actually teaming and doing missions and TF's to level toons, doing arcs and seeing all the zones. Most of the new players don't even leave Atlas and if they put a trainer in the building, a good percentage of them would never leave the AE building. |
I've been in the game since about a week after it launched. I have yet to find this magic easy leveling where you can jump into a vat of exp and swim around in it's deliciousness.
I have a 43, and several in the late 30s, but no 50. In part due to all the alts. But again, I haven't stumbled onto this easy route to 50. I even joined a few teams claiming they farmed for quick exp and it was only a tiny bit faster than my own casual leveling speed.
I'll admit I've tried dozens of AE missions, some of which were built for farming, but I never did level any faster than normal. Sure there was less travel, but does that really factor in? With most travel powers, leaping/flying/speeding/teleporting across a zone takes at the most a minute. Then you load the next one.
And with that handy teleport to mission purchase, you can even skip travel every few hours if you have to go through several zones.
AE and PL notwithstanding, it takes far less time to 50 now then it used to. In 2005, typical run to 50 was 300-400 hours. Now with the changes in the XP curve, Patrol XP, etc. its more like 100-150 hours. You're lucky if you hit 2 contacts within a 5-level band before you outlevel them.
I have to agree with the OP! I started in Dec 2005 and hit my first 50 (Iscilla) in Sep 2006. That was W-O-R-K! But... it felt oh sooo sweet! I truly felt a sense of accomplishment. Now, within the past month, every 50 I see I make sure to check their vet badges. And viola!..... a lot of times they don't even have any!
I love AE and what it offers the CoX community, but the abuse just makes me puke.
Seeing a 50 just isn't what it used to be anymore.
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Guns are the problem, not the shooters. The TOOL is the problem, not the players who abuse it. You fix the tool and you have no abuse. If you give people a weapon, a majority will take advantage of it. It is ridiculous to say that the shooters are to blame.| AE is the problem, not the players. The TOOL is the problem, not the players who abuse it. You fix the tool and you have no abuse. If you give people a shortcut to 50, a majority will take advantage of it. It is ridiculous to say that the players are to blame. |
Note: This is just an analogy. This is not my belief.
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Heh - I'm STILL slow then; my Merc/Poison just dinged 50 yesterday, and it took him 210 hours. And I felt like he was really fast.|
Originally Posted by _Uun_
AE and PL notwithstanding, it takes far less time to 50 now then it used to. In 2005, typical run to 50 was 300-400 hours. Now with the changes in the XP curve, Patrol XP, etc. its more like 100-150 hours. You're lucky if you hit 2 contacts within a 5-level band before you outlevel them.
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Still felt like a nice accomplishment though. I did it myself (I teamed twice I think - once to help a *brute* with his patron and once to help a small team out with Aurora Borealis). In the last stretch yesterday I defeated four Vindicators, Mynx another time, Dr Aeon, Synapse three times (since when does he actually BLUR??). I wasn't undefeated, but it was challenging and I felt some satisfaction at the end of the fights.
After that I got on a team with my lvl 40 Emp/Psi, who has been bogged down forever (toon's been around 4+ years). Joined an AE team that was fighting huge boss spawns. Gained about a level and a half in what, 45 minutes, if that? I was buffing and healing just as I usually would (well, much more buffing than healing), but it felt empty. I mean, I won't return the XP, but I was kinda glad when I got mapserved as it gave me a nice smooth exit.
edit: I will say though that the AE team I was on had some players on it that have been around longer than I have, and knew what they were doing. Probably would have steamrolled regardless with Emp buffs, Fulcrum Shift, creeper patches, etc. Get a tank that is particularly suited to the incoming damage though, and you have less risk than you otherwise might.
Suggestions:
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....and if you take away the guns you have no shooters
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Originally Posted by SunGryphon
Guns are the problem, not the shooters. The TOOL is the problem, not the players who abuse it. You fix the tool and you have no abuse. If you give people a weapon, a majority will take advantage of it. It is ridiculous to say that the shooters are to blame.
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But you CAN have STABBERS!
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Originally Posted by Bad_Dog
....and if you take away the guns you have no shooters
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I may have run into the same player. Took at least 3 powers from each of the Travel Pools and three powers out of the Medicine Pool.|
Originally Posted by doc_heal
LOL - I've seen a new player take Super Speed, Fly and Superjump!
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On an Empathy / Energy Blast Defender.
Character only had the one Blast they were required to take at level 1, everything else was support and movement.
Pre-badge nerf, they had 30+ AE badges, the level Rank badges, the "Badge" Badges and two Exploration Badges.
I did draw them out of AE into the world, and helped them get to Founder's Falls when a larger team recruited them. I don't know how they finished out, or if they have really learned to play yet, but I'm hoping.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
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Originally Posted by Bad_Dog
....and if you take away the guns you have no shooters
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Originally Posted by Iscilla
But you CAN have STABBERS!
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Exactly my point. Take away one thing or change it, and people will find another way to do what they want. IT IS THE PEOPLE. I refuse to believe that people cannot be held accountable for their actions.
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Take the gun away and the shooter will find another weapon. Plenty of people own guns and don't use them to hurt others, just the few that had issues before they got the gun. It isn't the tool that's the issue, the gun can provide you a meal or you can use it to hurt someone. The knife can help you prepare a meal or you can use it to hurt others.|
Originally Posted by SunGryphon
Guns are the problem, not the shooters. The TOOL is the problem, not the players who abuse it. You fix the tool and you have no abuse. If you give people a weapon, a majority will take advantage of it. It is ridiculous to say that the shooters are to blame.
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The tool is just that, a tool. You can use it for its intended purpose or you can use it for something entirely different. A lollipop stick is just that, unless you stick it in someones eye, then it is a weapon. It is up to the user of the tool to abuse it, not the tool itself.
Badging in a PvP zone?
If you are treasure hunting on a battlefield wearing an enemy uniform, there is a high probability that you will be attacked.
This is an enjoy-the-ride game. "50" is only a number, not the goal of the game. - Noxilicious
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Originally Posted by Oyasumi_Nasai
Take the gun away and the shooter will find another weapon. Plenty of people own guns and don't use them to hurt others, just the few that had issues before they got the gun. It isn't the tool that's the issue, the gun can provide you a meal or you can use it to hurt someone. The knife can help you prepare a meal or you can use it to hurt others.
The tool is just that, a tool. You can use it for its intended purpose or you can use it for something entirely different. A lollipop stick is just that, unless you stick it in someones eye, then it is a weapon. It is up to the user of the tool to abuse it, not the tool itself. |
Exactly my point, but with more eloquence, thank you.
Actually, (In a semi-desperate attempt to get this back onto the original topic) I DO still consider 50 an accomplishment. At least personally. I am one of those mythical creatures called a "casual player." On top of that, I have a minor case of Alt-itis. Basically this means I have a bunch of characters that only get a few hours a month each, depending on my personal "flavor of the moment."
As of this moment, I have ONE lv 50 that took me about 2 years to get. I have no real objection to AE, or any other method of rapid level advancement. And, yes, PL-SK-Bridging-ect, ect, are all types of rapid level advancement. As far as the quality of players produced, all of them have equal possibility of creating good and bad players. Those I find worth seeing again, I mark with the rating system (anyone remember that little hidden gem?) Those that are less competent, I might try to help along (If I think they can be redeemed) or just leave them to go their own way.
I'm still proud of my 50. It took me some work to get. My next one will be equally worthy of pride. Why? They're mine.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
This little argument has been raging in my SG quite a bit lately. I personally started back in issue 6, it took me just under a year to get my blaster to 50 and I was bloody ecstatic when I finally made it. Since all enhancements were about the same then, I decked him out and turned my attention to the support path, an ice/emp controller. It took that toon all of three weeks to hit 50. I didn't try terribly hard, just kept teaming and did what emp toons do. This isn't PLing, but it certainly had very similar qualities.
I made another controller about two months back, an earth/rad. It took that one, with the help of AE, until just a few days ago, more than twice the time of the first troller. Granted I didn't just door sit on farms, but nor did I put in a large amount of work (which I suppose is just how trollers run). I did see some truly horrific missions in that time, such as the one that used Hami's healing nodes as the only enemy, but I also came across quite a few good ones.
The arguments from my group members defend AE for giving the game an outlet for fresh ideas. Grinding the same hunts, rescues and defeat alls can get old fast. AE shines a little light on these seemingly dull and thoroughly exercised options. If you want to abuse the system for some meaningless immediate gratification, that is your business, but you ultimately contribute nothing to the game or community within.
Those opposing touch on the worthless 50's that do run around. While recruiting for an ITF, one person said they couldn't get in, asked for a reinvite and quit the team. Everyone was confused for a moment until it dawned on someone that this person didn't know you could have a Task Force outside AE. The other issue is the impact AE has on the players that choose not to use the system. As the focus shifts more and more to Atlas Park, it becomes harder and harder to find a team, much less a good team with whom to run regular missions. Many have started excluding Atlas from searches when seeking players, others ask questions of people looking for teams to ensure they actually know the game. In a few extreme cases, people have quit, looking to wait till the AE problem is addressed before playing again.
Although I use it a bit myself, I am overall not happy with what AE has done to the game. It is a brilliant concept, but needs a bit of work. Frankly I think making the rest of the game more attractive will go a long way to this, but setting a maximum level for the respective AE buildings might help also. If you could only use the Galaxy or Atlas building until level 12 for instance, but the PI building would be open to anyone who wants to run the risk getting there.
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Not sure if you're joking or not.|
Originally Posted by SunGryphon
Guns are the problem, not the shooters. The TOOL is the problem, not the players who abuse it. You fix the tool and you have no abuse. If you give people a weapon, a majority will take advantage of it. It is ridiculous to say that the shooters are to blame.
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If not...OI!
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Please go take a look at what I was quoting, and the context. |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Not sure if you're joking or not.
If not...OI! |
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Lol, my active reading skills still aren't turned on since the forum upgrade. I totally missed the quote you were quoting. Now that I re-read it I see what you did there.|
Originally Posted by SunGryphon
Exactly my point, but with more eloquence, thank you.
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On topic, my first 50 took three months and 500 hours to hit. I played solo to level 30 because I was afraid to team. This is my first and only MMO and I didn't want to anger anyone by my lack of ability. I made a few friends when I hit 50 they were there with me. It felt like I accomplished something.
My 8th 50, not so much. But I do prefer playing my 50's versus other levels. So much more to do at thet level for me. That is where my fun begins now.
Badging in a PvP zone?
If you are treasure hunting on a battlefield wearing an enemy uniform, there is a high probability that you will be attacked.
This is an enjoy-the-ride game. "50" is only a number, not the goal of the game. - Noxilicious
Each time I hit 50 with a character, it can make me weep.
If I'm on team and hit 50 it is more exciting.
The real fun is when I'm on team and someone else hits 50.
Sometimes, I impress my boss. Sometimes, I impress myself. The rest of the time, I scare people. I can live with that.
The range for XP sidekicked thing was put in because of stuff like that.
PLing is NOT a new thing. People who want to be PLed will go anywhere and do anything to get to their farm, it does not MATTER where you put it. It is just as easy to get to Talos, IP, Bricks, FF, and PI as it is to get from Atlas to Galaxy.
Way to put words in my mouth. Try again.
Have you played any of the actual stories and arcs in AE? At all? Or are you just blaming it because players made farms, and other players used them?
AE is NOT the problem. The people farming it are the problem.
If people want to farm, go for it. I have been playing since CoH Beta and i've seen every variation of farming over the years and to me if a lvl 1 makes it all the way to PI and can talk his way onto a farm team, good for him. My problem with farming is when it gets out of control, like it is now. New people join the game and are immediately immersed in the world of powerleveling. Its getting harder and harder to get people to team for missions. In all fairness to some of these people, they find the xp sucks compared to AE and they are dying repeatedly because they have no concept of the strategy and/or skills required for missions teams. I guess thats their fault too, right?
As far as AE missions and me are concerned... yes I have created and have done story arcs in AE. As enjoyable as that is, do you want to take a guess at the number of people who drop the team when they find out you are not doing a farm?