Change Mission Architect

Hello all.

Yes I'm being highly dramatic and yes, I am aware it ain't ever gonna happen.

I'm just despairing of the game right now and really wish I hadn't paid my subs up until November.

I can honestly say that people 'playing how they want to play, it's their money' is ruining my enjoyment of the game.

I've tried to create teams at varying times and am finding the numbers dwindling each time I do so.

I've put 'no farms/powerlevelling/fills' in my search and still I get invites to MA farms.

I believed there was going to be some kind of crackdown on it but there hasn't been one yet. If there's one thing worse than having to issue a threat, it's not following through on said threat.

***

So, my suggestion!

The MA is moved to Talos Island and above. And not right next to the station but somewhere difficult to get to (perhaps not Circe Island...)

Mobs are 'unlocked' by experiencing the levels at which they appear. So rather than being a level 1 and able to create a Carnie mish, that group should become available at level 30.

I know this doesn't work now that there are quite a number of 50s floating around who managed to do it in a stupidly small amount of time but if the action were actually to be taken (i.e. characters deleted, slots banned etc) then it might go some way to turning the game back to what it was in i13.

i.e. fun

Even if GR comes out and is amazing, I won't be surprised to see more 50s powerlevelled through MA and a distinct lack of teaming spirit (except through the powerlevel farms) becoming the norm.

That is all.

Ahem.

I think the MA will get further tweaks before GR comes out - possibly in I16 along with PC, like the way there were MA improvements in I15.

The NCsoft staff actually doing something? That's gonna take a miracle, as already evident on these forums.

Let's just leave the game designers to command the code monkeys how they see fit, and hope they come up with some interesting game content for us to explore come i16 and GR.

Maybe it will help take your mind off of the titanic problem of MA powerlevelling players. But i warn you now, PLvling is not a neew concept, and it happens in every MMO, and there is as of yet not a single MMO that has stopped farming.

CoX will not be the first ^^ So let's take the utiliterian perspective, and let the majority have what maximizes their happiness.

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But i warn you now, PLvling is not a neew concept, and it happens in every MMO, and there is as of yet not a single MMO that has stopped farming.

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I don't think the idea is to stop farming - it's to stop 1-50 in a few hours
The devs have made no mention of stopping farming - it's the excessive PLing they want to go after.

Thoroughly sympathises...

To be honest I really notice the amount of new recruits we have that have absolutely no idea of aggro distance or how their (and other's complementary) powers work. Not Paragon's finest hour to be honest.

New recruits are new recruits - fresh blood is always welcome - and hey can learn later, anyway

While I agree with your first and second points whole-heartedly of course... Point 3 is pretty debateable to be honest when (In this case) The Mission Architect has spawned a generation almost completely oblivious to the finer points of good tactics and considerate teaming re: your colleague's powers.

In their defence and the exasperation detailed in the OP, I'll agree it can be pretty annoying. The emphasis is not on doing the mission well, as part of a team and enjoying the Mission, Its on doing it fast and for maximum profit.

Like I said, Paragon's seen better days.

But it's also up to the longer term players to help them if they haven't learnt everything properly.

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But it's also up to the longer term players to help them if they haven't learnt everything properly.

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Only works if they let ya, GG trust me, I've tried, and I know I'm not alone. While sometimes its a success, like when I ran a sewer team and the peeps who did it said 'Hey, this is better than MA!' and were happy with it, other will just '[censored] I pay to play how I want, so get lost' while the farm runners (in some cases) will be particularly vitriolic. And sometimes far less cohegent than that

So, I'd like to do something, but so far it's just led me to NOT enjoy the game I play to enjoy. So I stikc to my SG, who are people who know how to play, will help people who join how to play, and are generally good company, and leave the vitriol to those that can stomach it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Its not just MA that has changed the learning curve though. The game had got to a point without MA that you could get from 1-50 without actually learning how to play. And while MA certainly hasn't helped the situation. Getting rid of it won't make a great deal of difference... well except losing more players who like it.

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Hello all.

Yes I'm being highly dramatic and yes, I am aware it ain't ever gonna happen.

I'm just despairing of the game right now and really wish I hadn't paid my subs up until November.

I can honestly say that people 'playing how they want to play, it's their money' is ruining my enjoyment of the game.

I've tried to create teams at varying times and am finding the numbers dwindling each time I do so.

I've put 'no farms/powerlevelling/fills' in my search and still I get invites to MA farms.

I believed there was going to be some kind of crackdown on it but there hasn't been one yet. If there's one thing worse than having to issue a threat, it's not following through on said threat.

***

So, my suggestion!

The MA is moved to Talos Island and above. And not right next to the station but somewhere difficult to get to (perhaps not Circe Island...)

Mobs are 'unlocked' by experiencing the levels at which they appear. So rather than being a level 1 and able to create a Carnie mish, that group should become available at level 30.

I know this doesn't work now that there are quite a number of 50s floating around who managed to do it in a stupidly small amount of time but if the action were actually to be taken (i.e. characters deleted, slots banned etc) then it might go some way to turning the game back to what it was in i13.

i.e. fun

Even if GR comes out and is amazing, I won't be surprised to see more 50s powerlevelled through MA and a distinct lack of teaming spirit (except through the powerlevel farms) becoming the norm.

That is all.

Ahem.

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IF YOU DONT LIKE MA - DON'T USE IT, OTHERWISE STOP SUGGESTING CONTENT THAT OTHERS MAY BE HAPPY WITH GETS CHANGED. - YOU MAKE ME SICK.

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Hello all.

Yes I'm being highly dramatic and yes, I am aware it ain't ever gonna happen.

I'm just despairing of the game right now and really wish I hadn't paid my subs up until November.

I can honestly say that people 'playing how they want to play, it's their money' is ruining my enjoyment of the game.

I've tried to create teams at varying times and am finding the numbers dwindling each time I do so.

I've put 'no farms/powerlevelling/fills' in my search and still I get invites to MA farms.

I believed there was going to be some kind of crackdown on it but there hasn't been one yet. If there's one thing worse than having to issue a threat, it's not following through on said threat.

***

So, my suggestion!

The MA is moved to Talos Island and above. And not right next to the station but somewhere difficult to get to (perhaps not Circe Island...)

Mobs are 'unlocked' by experiencing the levels at which they appear. So rather than being a level 1 and able to create a Carnie mish, that group should become available at level 30.

I know this doesn't work now that there are quite a number of 50s floating around who managed to do it in a stupidly small amount of time but if the action were actually to be taken (i.e. characters deleted, slots banned etc) then it might go some way to turning the game back to what it was in i13.

i.e. fun

Even if GR comes out and is amazing, I won't be surprised to see more 50s powerlevelled through MA and a distinct lack of teaming spirit (except through the powerlevel farms) becoming the norm.

That is all.

Ahem.

[/ QUOTE ]

IF YOU DONT LIKE MA - DON'T USE IT, OTHERWISE STOP SUGGESTING CONTENT THAT OTHERS MAY BE HAPPY WITH GETS CHANGED. - YOU MAKE ME SICK.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? I can't hear you, speak up!

Having experienced it last night the Green Bubbles thing is ridiculous altogether. Especially that it's still up there and Paragon Studios haven't fixed it yet.

Boss farms etc I've no problems with at all really, each to their own but the Green Mitos are another matter. The Risk/Reward ratio is basically 0.

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Hello all.

Yes I'm being highly dramatic and yes, I am aware it ain't ever gonna happen.

I'm just despairing of the game right now and really wish I hadn't paid my subs up until November.

I can honestly say that people 'playing how they want to play, it's their money' is ruining my enjoyment of the game.

I've tried to create teams at varying times and am finding the numbers dwindling each time I do so.

I've put 'no farms/powerlevelling/fills' in my search and still I get invites to MA farms.

I believed there was going to be some kind of crackdown on it but there hasn't been one yet. If there's one thing worse than having to issue a threat, it's not following through on said threat.

***

So, my suggestion!

The MA is moved to Talos Island and above. And not right next to the station but somewhere difficult to get to (perhaps not Circe Island...)

Mobs are 'unlocked' by experiencing the levels at which they appear. So rather than being a level 1 and able to create a Carnie mish, that group should become available at level 30.

I know this doesn't work now that there are quite a number of 50s floating around who managed to do it in a stupidly small amount of time but if the action were actually to be taken (i.e. characters deleted, slots banned etc) then it might go some way to turning the game back to what it was in i13.

i.e. fun

Even if GR comes out and is amazing, I won't be surprised to see more 50s powerlevelled through MA and a distinct lack of teaming spirit (except through the powerlevel farms) becoming the norm.

That is all.

Ahem.

[/ QUOTE ]

IF YOU DONT LIKE MA - DON'T USE IT, OTHERWISE STOP SUGGESTING CONTENT THAT OTHERS MAY BE HAPPY WITH GETS CHANGED. - YOU MAKE ME SICK.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? I can't hear you, speak up!

Having experienced it last night the Green Bubbles thing is ridiculous altogether. Especially that it's still up there and Paragon Studios haven't fixed it yet.

Boss farms etc I've no problems with at all really, each to their own but the Green Mitos are another matter. The Risk/Reward ratio is basically 0.

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My point remains, don't like it... Don't do it.
Otherwise, it's none of their concern.

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[ QUOTE ]

IF YOU DONT LIKE MA - DON'T USE IT, OTHERWISE STOP SUGGESTING CONTENT THAT OTHERS MAY BE HAPPY WITH GETS CHANGED. - YOU MAKE ME SICK.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? I can't hear you, speak up!

Having experienced it last night the Green Bubbles thing is ridiculous altogether. Especially that it's still up there and Paragon Studios haven't fixed it yet.

Boss farms etc I've no problems with at all really, each to their own but the Green Mitos are another matter. The Risk/Reward ratio is basically 0.

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My point remains, don't like it... Don't do it.
Otherwise, it's none of their concern.

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Nonsense.

If you can't see the damage allowing a "Get to 50 for no risk in a few days" which is freely available to all new players does to the long term life of a game there's no point even talking to you.

Well, if you didn't like it and it was a farm I hope all y'all reported it as such by using the already in place report function?

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Nonsense.

If you can't see the damage allowing a "Get to 50 for no risk in a few days" which is freely available to all new players does to the long term life of a game there's no point even talking to you.

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This is not a debate about whether PowerLeveling has a damaging effect to the game, there are plenty of those debates already, feel free to start a new thread on it if you like.

This is an objection to suggestions of removing content that other people enjoy, those who don't enjoy it can easily avoid it, otherwise it's none of their business, I would have thought you of all people would have been able to tell the difference between the two and see the point I was getting at.

Plus if you wanna go down the route of ~
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there's no point even talking to you.

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I would say to be fair my comments were aimed at the OP and would question why you were talking to me in the first place, BUT, I'd rather not go down that route so I'll ignore the last quoted statement.

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Well, if you didn't like it and it was a farm I hope all y'all reported it as such by using the already in place report function?

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No-one likes a Grass.

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I've tried to create teams at varying times and am finding the numbers dwindling each time I do so.


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Bad luck?
Summer holidays?
People don't want to team with you???

There may be many reasons why this has happened - not all of them due to the MA.

Your statement is too subjective to comment on further.
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I've put 'no farms/powerlevelling/fills' in my search and still I get invites to MA farms.


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You know by now that few people read the search comments. Not sure if due to plain rudeness or a lack of reading/comprehension skills.

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The MA is moved to Talos Island and above. And not right next to the station but somewhere difficult to get to (perhaps not Circe Island...)


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Surely if you want to dissuade people from using the MA then the SE corner of DA or hidden away in the shadow shards would be more effective.

The buildings are fine where they are.

The main non-architectural objections I've seen raised to MA building placement are that they shouldn't be in starter zones due to the impression that new players get when assailed by a tidal wave of farming spam and blind invites.

This isn't a problem of having the AE building in starter zones, but is a side effect of MA farms being far more populated than many other in-game activies. The question is why are the MA farms so popular and creating so much spam?

If the MA farms are only popular as they are:
[*] too easy (little/no risk for good rewards)
Then the devs need to crack down on the farms. They've already stated that MA is not intended to be used as a farm tool.
[*] great fun
Then it's tough if you are a player who doesn't want MA farms. If 99% of the playerbase actually enjoy MA farms and given a choice of doing anything ingame would play them because they're fun, who has the right to try nerfing that fun?

Of course, whilst some people will fall into this category, I don't believe this is the case for most players...

There's also the case that if the 99% of players enjoy farms but get bored and leave the game after their 1st month and several 50s, then, for the longterm good of the game, the devs ought to stop the farms to try getting back to longer-term subscribers.
[*] the only game in town (everyone else is doing it and I can get a team doing it)
Then the teams were still being organised/started/run by someone - and that person, if not the rest of the team, will be doing it because it's either the most fun they have or it's too easy with a skewed risk/reward.

If it's because the risk/rewards are unbalanced then address this and many of the farmers would retreat back to PI with the teams of mini fire/kins.

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Mobs are 'unlocked' by experiencing the levels at which they appear. So rather than being a level 1 and able to create a Carnie mish, that group should become available at level 30.


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Not really practical in stopping anything without changes elsewhere.

MA arcs are created by account, not by character. So it should go off highest level character on the account (e.g. a lvl1 could create a Carnie mish if they had a lvl30+ on their account).

But - we already know that currently a character can do 1-50 in practically no time using MA farms. So a lvl restriction would not harm anyone who used MA to PL. It would only stop people who played the game the old way and took weeks/months to level. Looked at this way this suggestion becomes a punishment for those playing in a way you find acceptable (e.g. only standard dev-content) and almost a further incentive to race to 50 (and maybe use MA farms).

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I can honestly say that people 'playing how they want to play, it's their money' is ruining my enjoyment of the game.

I believed there was going to be some kind of crackdown on it but there hasn't been one yet. If there's one thing worse than having to issue a threat, it's not following through on said threat.


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And they can play how they want to play. It's the devs/GMs responsibility to try and balance possible styles of play to ensure that all the players can have fun and no subset of players ruins the game of another subset.

Going off dev comments, the speed of PLing/farming with MA arcs that seriously skew their ideas of an acceptable risk/reward ratio is seen as 'bad for the game' and something that the devs want to discourage and possibly stop.

The threatened/promised crackdown (potentially going as far as character deletion and account bans) never seemed to arrive. Some action may have been taken, but the general player base don't know about it so it doesn't act as a deterrent to others.

Carrying out some actions against characters/accounts and making the actions known to the public could work wonders for stemming the tide of MA 1-50 PLing in a 2hr farm featuring the latest exploit. Sure, there'd be some fallout of players throwing fits that NC/PS would do such a thing. It's just a question of weighing up whether the fallout hurts the game more than 1-50 in hours/days followed by boredom would.

BTW - it's weeks ago now that the announcement threatening character deletion/account bans was made. Whilst there was a furore at the time about the possibility of retrospective punishment there could be no such uproar at action taken against characters/accounts who have been continuing to blatantly PL in the MA.

MA currently is what keeps defiant alive, luckely.

People dont like -1 lvl sidekicks (less dmg, more exp), people dont like half-complete characters against lvl50+ mobs. So what can you do at 20-40? Hopefully get a team of 3-4 players and pray there is a tank and a healer around.

MA puts people together, any lvl, people willing to swap to other toons to 'smooth' the team to great balance of survival and damage. The ease of wacking mobs create fun chat, enjoyable time and nice lvling. No stupid traveling more then you fight, no 'talk to NPC' [censored] but plain do what you do most... wack mobs.

Yes, i powerlvl my own characters, so sue me.

While I don't agree with nerfing what some people may enjoy aboutthe game (farming) that is still possible without the MA, so tweaking the MA and saying "We should be able to play how we want" is redundant because there are still PI and GV farms around.

And just something directed at _Donna. Doesn't it seem a bit selffish depriving players of team members for the way that they want to play? Changing MA to cut down on PLing and saying that it's taking away your fun is a hypocritical statement as the PLing is taking away team members for other players.

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While I don't agree with nerfing what some people may enjoy aboutthe game (farming) that is still possible without the MA, so tweaking the MA and saying "We should be able to play how we want" is redundant because there are still PI and GV farms around.

And just something directed at _Donna. Doesn't it seem a bit selffish depriving players of team members for the way that they want to play? Changing MA to cut down on PLing and saying that it's taking away your fun is a hypocritical statement as the PLing is taking away team members for other players.

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Cutting down on the MA will end one way, lost players and another dead zone.

It should never have been released in its current form.

The way to release things is to bring them out slim and add to them, not release them fat and put them on a diet.

That just irritates people.

And now what certain people need to get their heads round is if they are right about the teaming situation, farming / PL'ing seems to be more popular than not doing it, that puts THEM in the majority.

This MA is the biggest [censored] up of all time, it makes me laugh when i here some of these devs "vision" for how they wanted it, wake up, if you give people the opportunity to level fast, they will.

Then when you take it away, they will get the hump. Then you will lose more customers than the poxy idea gained in the first place.

I've said it before, I'll say it again;
Remove the MA buildings from only the starting zones, Atlas, Galaxy and Mercy.

That way, people can STILL enjoy the MA (as I do as well) with relative ease, but it eases the problem that, on the most part, is in Atlas; New players wondering how to play, and instantly being in MA farm teams. Because, say what you like, this is BAD for the game and the playerbase in the long run. Because people will think this is ALL there is to do in the game, or all that people want to do, will get to 50 a few times, get bored, quit. They might even tell their friends to stay away from the farm game. There is No Way that can be a good thing for the game and therefor us in any shape or form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Whats wrong with farming anyway?

What exactly is different then doing normal missions? Same mobs, same goal, same powers, same exp. Sure, its more efficient since u can 'create your own group', but the baseline remains the same, doing something over and over again.

Outside 'enter mission wack mobs click glowy', what is there to do in this game? Outdoor wacking is only done in RV, with a certain goal, everything else boils down to the same basic of the game.

PL'ing can and will be done, you cant remove it. If you remove it from MA, they move to PI or create other ways within the MA to get 'doorsit' exp. Do you consider 8 people wacking 50-52 mobs in MA farming, PL'ing or doing a MA mission? Even within these missions, creativity ran wild and the most exotic and fun mobs are made.

Where do you draw the line? An 'super' team doing nonstop +4 missions grabbing some lowbies from their SG is not called PL'ing? Or is the plain issue that farming/pl'ing was made too easy now?

If they only would make a proper party-search thing, so they dont have to use /b for MA teams , non-MA players wont have to see the nonstop spam anymore and everyone can continue in peace.

All that learning-curve arguements is plain rubbish, newbs will learn be it at 1 or 50, n00bs will remain n00bs. Not MA, not farming nor PL can ever change that.

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I've said it before, I'll say it again;
Remove the MA buildings from only the starting zones, Atlas, Galaxy and Mercy.

That way, people can STILL enjoy the MA (as I do as well) with relative ease, but it eases the problem that, on the most part, is in Atlas; New players wondering how to play, and instantly being in MA farm teams. Because, say what you like, this is BAD for the game and the playerbase in the long run. Because people will think this is ALL there is to do in the game, or all that people want to do, will get to 50 a few times, get bored, quit. They might even tell their friends to stay away from the farm game. There is No Way that can be a good thing for the game and therefor us in any shape or form.

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I agree with you, only i dont think the MA was good for the game full stop.

The time spent on that could have been spent on dev created content.

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Whats wrong with farming anyway?

What exactly is different then doing normal missions? Same mobs, same goal, same powers, same exp. Sure, its more efficient since u can 'create your own group', but the baseline remains the same, doing something over and over again.

Outside 'enter mission wack mobs click glowy', what is there to do in this game? Outdoor wacking is only done in RV, with a certain goal, everything else boils down to the same basic of the game.

PL'ing can and will be done, you cant remove it. If you remove it from MA, they move to PI or create other ways within the MA to get 'doorsit' exp. Do you consider 8 people wacking 50-52 mobs in MA farming, PL'ing or doing a MA mission? Even within these missions, creativity ran wild and the most exotic and fun mobs are made.

Where do you draw the line? An 'super' team doing nonstop +4 missions grabbing some lowbies from their SG is not called PL'ing? Or is the plain issue that farming/pl'ing was made too easy now?

If they only would make a proper party-search thing, so they dont have to use /b for MA teams , non-MA players wont have to see the nonstop spam anymore and everyone can continue in peace.

All that learning-curve arguements is plain rubbish, newbs will learn be it at 1 or 50, n00bs will remain n00bs. Not MA, not farming nor PL can ever change that.

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It's an issue when people get from 1-50 in a day, and all newcomers in Atlas park are inundated with Farm spam.

Yes, there always was farming in PI. Thats the final high end zone on blueside, where newbies only went if 1.) They knew about it 2.) They were willing to wait for a team.
That was fine. It was out of the way, it was quiet, it was unobtrusive.

In any zone it would be alright, tbh. Hell, I've farmed myself, due to getting rather sick of the lower levels over and over, and the 'Fitness levels' (14-20). But I know what I'm doing. I've been playing for however many months, tried every AT and know how things go.

It's not good to have the MA's in the starter zones, however. Tbh, MA isn't a beginners tool. It wasn't designed to be a Farm tool and, while it can be used by one and people do find it enjoyable/useful, that shouldnt be what beginners are faced with. That leads to custom mobs that are horrible to fight, due to newbies not knowing what sets do what, lvl 50s who have no idea how to play, which DOES cause a problem if you team with them, and the detrimental effect it has on the image of the game. Which, if that goes bad, means we see less subs, less money into the game, less people for us to team and play with...you get the picture.

So, no, it's not a horribly bad thing. MA allows for great stories, and for a helping hand on alleviating low level boredom for those that have done the levels too much. But a slight move would, IMO at least, be better for the longterm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.