[ QUOTE ]
I reckon you ought to have to finish the arc before you can rate it - that would save a lot of grief, and might allow something to get into the Hall of Fame once in a while.
[/ QUOTE ]
i have rated a couple of arcs as 4 or 5 stars but not been able to finish them. i met a baddie that i couldnt beat the arc was good i just couldnt beat the boss. since i was using a level 5 scrapper i put it down to not enough oommph to take him out. still a good arc though.
[ QUOTE ]
Xemulas said:
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I removed it. Was sick and tired of something I do for recreation in my spare time making me so angry (Getting 'feedback' from people saying things like "I don't understand the story lulz, but it's pretty good lol 3 stars, after it getting to around 40 plays and 4 star average, being praised for the story all the while. Just an example).
Pointless for a badger when people of that caliber can lower your average. Anyway!
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't get demoralised, Xemulas
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite right don't get demoralised, instead get a thicker skin and forget about the ratings badges.
You're never going to please everyone and especially not when providing content for a game where accessing the content takes 5 seconds - so people will jump into any old arc even if, had they read the info avaialbe, they'd have known that they probably wouldn't get much from it.
Personally I actually find it a shame and even slightly selfish to have many people enjoying the story (according to Xemula's quote) but to just remove the arcs because of a few less-than-stellar ratings/comments from people who didn't really seem interested in the arc. Pull the arc to put something else up, but pull it just to avoid a few negative ratings when soem people were really enjoying it?
And as for mentioning badges. I personally think the ratings badges should stay and cartels/griefers be detected (as they were meant to be). But the badges for ratings are nice to haves and no badger is neccesarily going to get them all.
Think of the top ratings badges as if they're awarded to a player at random once a month, or like the bughunter badge . Sure it'll be nice if you get it, but you probably never will - and getting stressed about it ain't worth anything.
[ QUOTE ]
I reckon you ought to have to finish the arc before you can rate it - that would save a lot of grief, and might allow something to get into the Hall of Fame once in a while.
[/ QUOTE ]
No - this raises it's own problems such as:
* What if an arc is impossible to finish for your character?
* What if within seconds/minutes it becomes very apparent that you are playing the thrown together in 2 seconds, kill all, dog-parcel from hell arc? And there are a fair few of these about...
Instead griefing voting patterns ought to be weeded out of the mix and perpetrators addressed. It should be possible to do it, not least because the devs claimed pre-I14 that it could be done.
Of course, I guess a system where you rated only after completing the arc or having been actually in the arc's missions for at least a set amount of time could work.
E.g. if you had to complete or be in the arc's missions for at least 5 minutes.
Then:
* Grief raters would have to wait 5 minutes to rate - which would deter at least some of them who are doing it purely to grief.
* Anyone completing the arc could rate immediately.
* Anyone who got stuck or couldn't complete would either have:
---- taken more than 5 minutes before getting stuck, so could rate immediately;
---- taken less than 5 minutes to get stuck, and so have less than 5 minutes left to wait.
The main people this would adversely affect are those who do hit a stinking dogpile of an arc and it's almost immediately obvious - but I, for one, would happiy wait 5 minutes to zero/1 star an arc that was truely that bad just to help others to avoid it.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
[ QUOTE ]
I reckon you ought to have to finish the arc before you can rate it - that would save a lot of grief, and might allow something to get into the Hall of Fame once in a while.
[/ QUOTE ]
Defo not! Last few days i've just been running through MA bank missions and while some of them are good for what they are, a lot of them have next to no dialog/warning about the mission inside. If a fully spec'd out scrapper cant even beat a bank mission solo after multiple tries then theres something wrong.
Dont have me rob a bank quite easily then spawn an ambush of AVs!!!! I WONT like it and you will get rated down!
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
could be an idea that you get to say why you are quiting an arc if you do quit out before the end. that way you can give feedback but not stuff the overall rating.
[ QUOTE ]
You're never going to please everyone and especially not when providing content for a game where accessing the content takes 5 seconds - so people will jump into any old arc even if, had they read the info avaialbe, they'd have known that they probably wouldn't get much from it.
Personally I actually find it a shame and even slightly selfish to have many people enjoying the story (according to Xemula's quote) but to just remove the arcs because of a few less-than-stellar ratings/comments from people who didn't really seem interested in the arc. Pull the arc to put something else up, but pull it just to avoid a few negative ratings when soem people were really enjoying it?
[/ QUOTE ]
You're right. It was for selfish reasons. I simply didn't want to have to put up with the headaches anymore :P
My skin is very thin, and i'm actually a pretty destructive person when something gets under it. But hey-ho, i've made room for that 1% of fantastically talented weatherable people to slot something in there 
MA's a great system, I just don't have the spuds for it. I also can't see anyway to make the ratings system fair.
As (I think) Bovine_Avenger put it. The lowest common denominator tripe is always going to zoom ahead (Footsteps Initiative, Butterfly Effect), leaving the slightly more niche stuff to be pretty much left treading water within the pre-established group of authors. Having to fight so strongly against the current turned out to not be my ideal passtime 
. I'm still proofreading/testing arcs however...just not writing any
Footsteps? Lowest denominator tripe? I loved that mission.
The Butterfly Effect I thought was meh though (and rated it 2 stars accordingly, I just didn't see why it was a Hall of Famer at all.
i have played a couple of the hall of fame and dev choice arcs and wondered who the author slept with to get the arc up there. as they are a load of tripe most of the time.
Butterfly Effect is a nice idea, but the missions really are about as simple and unimaginative as you can get. I am not really sure why it is rated so highly, to be honest.
[ QUOTE ]
Butterfly Effect is a nice idea, but the missions really are about as simple and unimaginative as you can get. I am not really sure why it is rated so highly, to be honest.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know. You're thinking "Ooh, this will be clever" and it just never happens.
I blame the Da Vinci Code Effect (now there's an idea for an arc)
[ QUOTE ]
Footsteps? Lowest denominator tripe? I loved that mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are of course entitled to your own opinion Carni. For me, any 4th wall breaking is an absolute no thanks, from me. Jokes about player made costumes and about XPEES, is about as low as you can get, in terms of ensuring a few giggles from the playerbase.
Not really high end clever canon stuff (such as, Tidebringer)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Footsteps? Lowest denominator tripe? I loved that mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are of course entitled to your own opinion Carni. For me, any 4th wall breaking is an absolute no thanks, from me. Jokes about player made costumes and about XPEES, is about as low as you can get, in terms of ensuring a few giggles from the playerbase.
Not really high end clever canon stuff (such as, Tidebringer)
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm quite happy for the 4th wall to be broken, I've never met a PuG where it isn't. As you say that's purely down to personal opinion. But it is a well crafted arc, as oppose to The Butterfly Effect which is just average in every way (actually less than average in terms of gameplay, the missions are just dull)
Tidebringer eh? *goes onto the list to try*
I have been on the verge of removing my arcs a few times. The only reason I don't is that for every ones who says meh, there is someone who likes it well.
But, while I am still tinkering with my existing arc, I doubt I will try to make a new one. I don't consider myself a good enough storyteller to ever be able to reach for a HoF status and frankly trying to write in English is beyond my expertise.
It doesn't help that updating an arc is a big pain as well.
About the butterfly effect. When i first played it, I liked it a lot. But that mission was written in closed USA beta and it is showing it's age.
I really think that Dev choices etc ought to be update able by the author.
The trouble is, whenever you do something geuninely creative there will always be people who don't get it. The way to get a really big audience is to create popularist pap.
It's the same with TV, novels and movies.
I really should do something about this signature.
I am sad to hear you pulled your arc down Xem, I really enjoyed it. 
Though I also have to agree with Xem about Footsteps. It's a good arc overall, but I think I gave it 4 star at the time, and it's not something I would consider for HoF.
It is, as Xem puts it, 'lowest common denominator' in that it's a very safe arc. LOL internetz jokes will always get the most laughs, and there's nothing much to think about here. It's just a bunch of NPCs shouting 'LFT!' and 'XPeees!', which consequently, it also means it has become what passes for mainstream here in it's inoffensive content that anyone could understand.
That's not a bad thing mind, but it's not something I would give special merit for.
A Penny For Your Thoughts #348691 <- Dev's Choice'd by Dr. Aeon!
Submit your MA arc for review & my arcs thread
[ QUOTE ]
You're right. It was for selfish reasons. I simply didn't want to have to put up with the headaches anymore :P
My skin is very thin, and i'm actually a pretty destructive person when something gets under it. But hey-ho, i've made room for that 1% of fantastically talented weatherable people to slot something in there
MA's a great system, I just don't have the spuds for it. I also can't see anyway to make the ratings system fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
There'll be less than 1% of fantastically talented weatherable people...
They key is - if you've done something as well as you could, accept feedback/criticism that's constructive and dismiss as idiots those who obviously just want to shedog & moan about something.
MA's easy when you accept that even the best arc ever, that 95% of people agree is sheer genius and should see the author deified, will still have 5% saying that it's dogpile and only zero-rating because you can't go lower...
But it's still a shame to just remove arcs because of that 5% if even a single player enjoyed it.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
Both of my arcs have slid from being 5 star ratings early on to being 4 stars now, but I don't find it demoralising, even though there are tons of arcs with 5 stars that I feel are barely worth 2-3 stars based on the story and the writing and gameplay in them.
Why? Because it's the comments I get from people who have played my arcs and enjoyed them that makes writing them worthwhile. The "best arc I've played so far in MA" comments have meant more to me than any number of stars (admittedly I don't care about the badges). I don't care about mainstream/community popularity as long as some people have got enjoyment from my efforts.
The only thing that worries me about reduced ratings is whether people will have trouble finding my arc to play - but I'm hoping word of mouth will prove superior to the ratings. Besides I almost exclusively go off recommendations myself now, or if I don't have any for a certain level range I tend to search for 3-4 star arcs (often using SFMA in my search terms) as that's where a lot of the quality lies.
I would love to edit "SFMA" into my arc descriptions as I've recently found it a useful search term for finding great quality arcs (most of which are at 4 stars as well, ironically enough), but sadly my arcs have now both bloated past the 100% and I don't want to gut them of content just to fit them back in so I can republish (considering how much tweaking and testing it took to get them "just right").
Honestly I wish the rating system was more focused - just 3 ratings - bad, average and good (for 0, 1 or 2 stars respectively) to really iron out the effect that individuals can have on ratings at the start (when a malicious 0 or 1 star rating can really drag down an arc that has several 4-5 star ratings).
[ QUOTE ]
Because it's the comments I get from people who have played my arcs and enjoyed them that makes writing them worthwhile. The "best arc I've played so far in MA" comments have meant more to me than any number of stars (admittedly I don't care about the badges). I don't care about mainstream/community popularity as long as some people have got enjoyment from my efforts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup - the best part of MA is certainly getting feedback. Knowing a couple of people enjoyed something I created is great - especially when I'm pretty sure I've no idea who the person is so I don't think they've been swayed in the least bit by any teaming or forum antics!
And negative comments are good if they provide feedback as to why they're negative.
In fact the only non-useful comment I recall getting was when feedback was still email based and a US account sent the comment 'meh'. Not useful in the least...
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
[ QUOTE ]
Four Star Void
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting phrase.
I often feel there is an element of herd mentality about voting and once an arc drops from five to four stars it is unlikely ever to rise again.
And of course, an arc only needs to get one or two undeserved low votes early on to drag it down from five to four and drop it into that void forever more. Now that is demoralising.
All my arcs have four stars.
But I reckon that is about right. I don't consider myself a creative genius, especially not when it comes to writing.
I really should do something about this signature.
My arc started out with 5 stars as all my friends and the people I know (who "get" me :P and thus the arc) tried it...then when the rest of the world go hold of it they dragged it down to 3 stars, where it probably belonged. I went through the bare bones of it the other day and saw a couple of issues with the pacing...the only problem was that I only ever got star ratings: people were marking me 3 stars and not saying why....I'd just like people to tell me what they didn't enjoy so I can actually do something about it.
As such I pulled it....I enjoyed the missions myself, then again they've knidged the Chicken Pull emote so it's broken now...but I think my sense of humour is a little too bizarre for people to get all the incidental stuff.
As such I'm onto deeper horizons....I have about 6 arcs I'm actively working on.....which is a kicker as those 3 slots cant be wasted....ahhh well I'll sort it.
As for Butterfly effect, it's good fun: but I think that one of the problem with the Devs choice stuff is that a lot of them were chosen in Beta and brought over from the test server. In that environment it was only the folks who couldn't wait to play the MA who joined in, there was some good stuff, but nowhere near the sheer volume of cool arcs out there now. If some of those Devs choices were re-assessed they'd maybe fare a little differently.
I hate the 4th wall, it stops me from communicating effectively with my characters....it gets a regular beating from me.
I don't wanna save my soul now,
I just wanna lose control,
And even if it takes a lifetime, to learn:
I'll learn!
I was a bit gutted when Ci3 dropped from five to four stars on the basis of one, presumably zero, rating, but these days I've come to understand that four stars and a few plays is a vastly more reliable indicator of quality than five stars and two or three plays, and as such, I tend to search for four-starred missions if I feel like rocking some MA content.
Will I ever get dev choice? I dunno; I submit it for review and tweak based on said reviews, and hope eventually that someone will truly love it. Mebbe they will, mebbe they won't, mebbe I'll write another, better arc (though if I can do better than @Twoflower's great arcs, I'll be darn pleased with myself).
Cancelled in Three - MA ID #34608. Please play and comment! Top 10 placing in Projectionist's MA contest!
Cancelled in 3....I remember that arc. I'm sure I teamed with you and ran through it when you were still polishing it up. If I'm right and it's the one I'm thinking of...*follows link* yep, tis brilliant.
@Twoflower needs an individual Architect to fill with glorious works, I'm sure they'd be able to do it going on what's been published so far.
I don't wanna save my soul now,
I just wanna lose control,
And even if it takes a lifetime, to learn:
I'll learn!
I got demoralised after feedback but not for the reason of being a four-star monkey like everybody else. The reason I'm demoralised is that the critical feedback I got was RIGHT. Lots of my story elements suddenly needed major reworking and I'm just so fed up because I had put a lot of effort into tweaking them (thanks to initial feedback) into a state which I felt was just perfect. Suddenly, people find more loose ends than a plate of spaghetti and I'm down in the dumps.
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
[ QUOTE ]
I got demoralised after feedback but not for the reason of being a four-star monkey like everybody else. The reason I'm demoralised is that the critical feedback I got was RIGHT. Lots of my story elements suddenly needed major reworking and I'm just so fed up because I had put a lot of effort into tweaking them (thanks to initial feedback) into a state which I felt was just perfect. Suddenly, people find more loose ends than a plate of spaghetti and I'm down in the dumps.
[/ QUOTE ]
Feedback can be most devastating to the morale yes. Especially when you put a lot of effort and work into it.
Split from the Dev's Choice Nominations thread to avoid cluttering that up with nonsense...
Xemulas said:
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I removed it. Was sick and tired of something I do for recreation in my spare time making me so angry (Getting 'feedback' from people saying things like "I don't understand the story lulz, but it's pretty good lol 3 stars, after it getting to around 40 plays and 4 star average, being praised for the story all the while. Just an example).
Pointless for a badger when people of that caliber can lower your average. Anyway!
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't get demoralised, Xemulas - it seems that quite a lot of players never bother to actually read anything in the mission briefings and debriefings, and then complain that the story doesn't make sense without it!
Anyway, getting marked down by people who have actually played the arc is much, much less annoying than the 'players' who are deliberately marking down anything that's appearing high up in the five star arc listings. There's nothing quite so exasperating as getting an arc starting to gain momentum with some really nice feedback (even the Americans were starting to play it!), only for it to get hurled into the Four Star Void with the message 'You have been voted no stars for your arc' without your number of players completing your arc badge making any progress.
I reckon you ought to have to finish the arc before you can rate it - that would save a lot of grief, and might allow something to get into the Hall of Fame once in a while.