We had real butter for tea.....

lionsbane_EU · 05-02-2009 12:24 PM

Everyone knows how critical I am of the development team and my belief that they lack the ambition and the imagination this game requires.

But even I never thought it would come to this.

Does anyone remember the time when the typical player enjoyed the game as it was set out to be played?

When it took 6 months to hit 50? And you enjoyed the journey?

When you'd play your toon because you liked that particular char-you liked logging on as that alt, everyonew knew you as that persona?

You'de do something spectacular like stood in a mob and took all the damage.. or wiped out a group in a single blast and someone near you would go wow? And you'd smile because even though 6 slotting that power meant you weren't as accurate or you had a little less endurance, it was worth it for cool moments like that?

When all the 50s met at hamidon and picked up a real reward and had a great 3 hours even though most of the time you were just standing there?

When it was (for allits faults) simple and straightforward fun?

When all the devs had to do was just add to the canvass they had built rather than nerf the fun out of the powers and position us so that farming became a necessary part of the game if you really wanted your char to rock?

Where has the soul of this game gone? And, more to the point can it ever come back again?

Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick

Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven

2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...

FloatingFatMan · 05-02-2009 12:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Where has the soul of this game gone? And, more to the point can it ever come back again?

[/ QUOTE ]

They flushed it. Check down the waste recycling plant, it's probably floating in one of the settling tanks somewhere, among all the other flotsam they scraped off the game ages ago.

@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Kindeller · 05-02-2009 12:40 PM

<--- is getting slightly fed up listening to people moan now

The games in a right state i think they get the picture. They're working on it. slowly, bit by bit. the coming update thats on test should make a fair dent in farming. Not including the yet to come.

Edit: I'd also like to point out how exactly you judge how enthusiastic someone is about what they do? In all seriousness... You've, if your lucky met them once, possibly spoken to them a couple of times. (which were no doubt partially prescript and extremely prohibited). Other than that your basing it on what... Whats released? The issues?

lionsbane_EU · 05-02-2009 12:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Where has the soul of this game gone? And, more to the point can it ever come back again?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
They flushed it. Check down the waste recycling plant, it's probably floating in one of the settling tanks somewhere, among all the other flotsam they scraped off the game ages ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is absolutely no question in my mind that the culture within the game has deteriorated beyond recognition. it's almost corrupted.
And after spending years of criticsing and putting up my (right or wrong0 suggestions, I finally admit defeat.

What's done it for me is that they should have seen, following the way farming has become so predominant after inventions came in, what was going to happen. Crickey, just spending a few hours testing the system will have shown them that.

So I have zero hope for them.

But maybe someone else does. What should be done to restore the core soul of this game?

Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick

Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven

2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...

lionsbane_EU · 05-02-2009 12:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
<--- is getting slightly fed up listening to people moan now

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't help you on that. These are forums. They reflect what's going on and how people view them at the time. That's not our fault. Sorry.
Go to posis address if you want positive soundbites.

[ QUOTE ]
The games in a right state i think they get the picture. They're working on it. slowly, bit by bit. the coming update thats on test should make a fair dent in farming. Not including the yet to come.

Edit: I'd also like to point out how exactly you judge how enthusiastic someone is about what they do? In all seriousness... You've, if your lucky met them once, possibly spoken to them a couple of times. (which were no doubt partially prescript and extremely prohibited). Other than that your basing it on what... Whats released? The issues?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't fully understand the question. Who's enthusiastic? Who have I met once or twice? Devs or players?

Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick

Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven

2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...

shazan · 05-02-2009 12:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The games in a right state i think they get the picture. They're working on it. slowly, bit by bit. the coming update thats on test should make a fair dent in farming. Not including the yet to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that they shouldnt be having to fix it now, It was perfectly fine as it was, why add the farming need anyway? People could see what the MA would become, why couldnt the devs?

Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.

Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966

New Dawn · 05-02-2009 01:01 PM

I disagree. There has been a lot of anti dev stuff I have disagreed with particularly when it comes to ED and aggro caps as they've opened the doors to character diversity, playstyle and in making everyone's characters that much more equal. People needing certain powerset's in teams to get content done is purely down to the laws they've written for themselves.

People pay to play, albeit have fun or as a past time, it comes to be a past time with characters that are going through levels that aren't considerably fun to get to levels that are fun. I know fun is subjective and people make their own decisions.

So it's not for me to look back and remember the good old days it's for me to look at now and think "Well apart from the fact that people by skipping the non fun stages of toons are saving subscription money that old customers couldn't and there will be an amount of 50s that'll be hardly useful to a new level; may as well bat for the opposite side. This game was going somewhere".

I was looking forward to the days where people were being more diverse in their team set ups and simply accepting the person who asked to join first rather than picking someone who asked to join 3rd but has powersets x/y but the current situation has set things back more.

I could write out how despite being limited to a seemingly desperate team what potential can be gained in terms of survivability but I don't write guides as I like to see people with things to find out for themselves.

Now I just see it taking longer, you will have people of ideal powersets built very badly and not very good with them. I realize that can be the way anyway and won't necessarily be so with those with alts already in game for passed few months but still the coming out of the caves bit is going to be slower.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

Hero2 · 05-02-2009 01:17 PM

What's your issue? That it takes no time to get to 50? That players skip all the content? Perhaps it's that endgame has very little content, and these "new" PLers will leave when they realise this?

Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com

Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.

FloatingFatMan · 05-02-2009 01:23 PM

BTW: I wasn't being really serious in my post.

As to what can be done to save the game? Well... I don't think the game itself actually NEEDS saving, tbh. My issues with it are primarily out of familiarity breeding contempt, if I'm totally honest with myself.

I think that all it REALLY needs is a new coat of paint (updated game engine), and the devs being given a kick up the backside. Competition is coming, and I'm sorry Posi, but they really really DON'T need to compete with CoH. They have shiny and newness on their side, and that's going to beat an ancient engine and repetitive missions any time.

@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Bris_Elfling · 05-02-2009 01:45 PM

I've always thought that farmers are people who just have a different idea of what is fun to do than I have. I've always respected that there are different types of players. There are studies showing how different things in a game appeal to different sorts of people. Some categorize people in f.ex. Achiever, Explorer, Socialiser or Killer.
I think in these discussions it's important to remember that different people have different goals and different approaches to a game. You can shout as much as you like defending your own preferences as the "true goals" in the game, but if you are speaking to people who are fundamentally different types of players then you will never agree.
That is also why some issues will appeal to some and not to others.

I hope there's room for us all in the game.

I'm the type of player, who took ages getting my first 50, because there were just so many things I wanted to explore on the way there. I knew someone who was set on getting to 50 quickly because that gave him that "WOW-feeling" of getting the powers and so on...
He was probably an Achiever whereas I am definitely a mix of Socialiser and Explorer, if we are to use those terms.

That said: It's definitely a game wrecking feature that it is now possible to get a char from level 1 to 50 in a matter of hours... hours! From what I got from Positron this is definitely not the intention of the game and it is something they are working on fixing. If/how it can be fixed and how quickly is another question.

I used to just avoid the worst farm teams or get bored and quit the team after a couple of repetitions of a mission. I would just mind my own business and get on with what I liked about the game.
I can understand why people get upset about the farming these days though. I dont know what it is, but its staring to bug me. Maybe not the actual farming, but more the constant and in my opinion very impatient farm team requests in Atlas Park. Maybe its just become concentrated and more visible so that it seems to dominate the game more than it used to.

But it does not change my opinion: MA is fun, a strike of genius and I will have enough entertainment from it to last me a long time, and I think some of the arcs developed by the players are absolutely brilliant. It opens up whole new possibilities for you to live out your fantasies far beyond character customization.

Others are left bored with i14 and are hoping for other features in the game to be released. Fair enough. You can't please everyone.

I can't help but feel that there is also a small group of people who are just unhappy about everything that is being released, the speed of new features, the bugs that comes with the new features (which was released too slowly) and really seem to be most happy when they have something to be angry about. But I think sadly you find people like that everywhere you go. And all posts that express player's feelings about the game are welcome on this forum as far as I'm concerned. We will never get any wiser if we don't start the debates.

Cobra_Man · 05-02-2009 01:47 PM

I would suggest a back to basics approach, and yes I would say to save the game.

Fix MA by whatever means. Seriously nerf or nuke it, I don't mind.

Introduce new (dev created) contacts with (dev created) arcs/missions and new (dev created) mobs.

Revamp some existing zones. There is a wealth of game lore to utilise.

Bring in a new zone, or zones.

Bring in new powersets (proliferation is fine - more please).

Spruce up the radio/newspaper missions to allow for more variety.

Above all ... Get back on track with the plot. The CoX backstory is excellent and should be used to enhance the game.

This is a wonderful game and it deserves to be handled with respect.

Now is the time to start doing that.

Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.

Hero 50's - 25

Villain 50's - 1

Hero2 · 05-02-2009 02:12 PM

Suggestions belong in the dustbin*cough* I mean the ignore*cough* I mean "Suggestions" forum.

I'd disagree with some of your ideas. I am fed up with new toys and more of the same. I'd like to see existing things improved - almost everything can be better IMO new toy content can wait, but I agree that the story should be followed at the very least.

Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com

Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.

Eight_Ball_EU · 05-02-2009 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW: I wasn't being really serious in my post.

As to what can be done to save the game? Well... I don't think the game itself actually NEEDS saving, tbh. My issues with it are primarily out of familiarity breeding contempt, if I'm totally honest with myself.

I think that all it REALLY needs is a new coat of paint (updated game engine), and the devs being given a kick up the backside. Competition is coming, and I'm sorry Posi, but they really really DON'T need to compete with CoH. They have shiny and newness on their side, and that's going to beat an ancient engine and repetitive missions any time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know I would love some new shiny graphics but to say the game needs it to survive in the current market is pushing it a little.

Remember Ultima online , it suffered greatly from the WoW release....but the Ultima devs had this great idea to pull in a few punters....that was a graphical upgrade known as Ultima reborn, it did naff all to bring more peeps in and the majority of the current players shunned the new client.

Canine · 05-02-2009 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When it took 6 months to hit 50? And you enjoyed the journey?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's never taken me 6 months to hit 50, but I'm still enjoying the journey, each and every time I make it.

[ QUOTE ]
When you'd play your toon because you liked that particular char-you liked logging on as that alt, everyonew knew you as that persona?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm levelling a new toon, and while I do that, I don't tend to touch my alts much. However, I've not really been known for a single toon for a good few years now.

[ QUOTE ]
You'de do something spectacular like stood in a mob and took all the damage.. or wiped out a group in a single blast and someone near you would go wow? And you'd smile because even though 6 slotting that power meant you weren't as accurate or you had a little less endurance, it was worth it for cool moments like that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had plenty of moments I remember fondly, and I'm still having them. (latest one is a 6 shield user team on the final mission in Croatoa. Multiple Shield Charges make a mess of Redcap spawns... )

[ QUOTE ]
When all the 50s met at hamidon and picked up a real reward and had a great 3 hours even though most of the time you were just standing there?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was never a major Hami raid fan, and once I'd been Hami Tank on Unions first successful Hami raid (the old version, back in 2005. I was the idiot Regen Scrapper who volunteered to annoy the core), I never really felt the need to go on any more.

[ QUOTE ]
When it was (for allits faults) simple and straightforward fun?

[/ QUOTE ]

The game is still fun. To me at least. For all those who no longer think it is, then I'm sorry, but IMO, the problem's with you, your expectations and demands, not the game.

[ QUOTE ]
When all the devs had to do was just add to the canvass they had built rather than nerf the fun out of the powers and position us so that farming became a necessary part of the game if you really wanted your char to rock?

[/ QUOTE ]

IO's are by no way shape or form essential. I've got various alts still on SO's, and they're all effective, some hideously so.

I've tanked the STF on an SO'd Ice/Ice tank. I've blasted a STF on an SO'd Archery/EM blaster. I've gotten MoSTF on my stone/fire scranker who has one full set (Perfect Zinger in taunt) and the rest just generic level 35 IO's.

[ QUOTE ]
Where has the soul of this game gone? And, more to the point can it ever come back again?

[/ QUOTE ]

The playerbase changes ith time, it's the same for all MMO's.

So far as I can tell, a lot of the 'old guard' who still play and enjoy the game are a little like me. I don't PuG, I team with friends I know well, and I'm not socially gregarious in the game itself, so I'm pretty much only known to a very small circle of players. And that suits me fine, as I'd much rather solo and learn the ins and outs of how my toons work in various situations, than PuG.

The major change IMO is the boards. We've had 3, or is it 4 moderators in the last couple of years. Avatea seems to be doing as much on the US boards as on the EU boards (may be an erroneous impression) so the level of moderation over here has dropped a long way from where it used to be, and I'm sorry to say, but it was the moderation as much as the playerbase that kept these boards as pleasant as they were. We've always been in need of a firm smacking down on these boards, and anyone who remembers otherwise needs their rose tinted glasses removing.

Warning:

The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.

Hero2 · 05-02-2009 02:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry to say, but it was the moderation as much as the playerbase that kept these boards as pleasant as they were. We've always been in need of a firm smacking down on these boards, and anyone who remembers otherwise needs their rose tinted glasses removing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what you're smoking, but this certainly appears to be a one-off perspective. I think you're on your own, there.

Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com

Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.

_evie_ · 05-02-2009 03:56 PM

I'm going to speak up on behalf of MA Farming (sorry) - Last night I took my WS for a few cheap levels on the MA system, simply because no matter how many epics I've rolled I've never got into them, similarly with villains, can't get into the stories. Farming MA gives me the means to quickly bypass the early the early grindfu of jumping down snake holes for that wench, Kalinda, or getting the same crate and same painting from the council.

It's not that the story isn't good, I'm just sick of acting it out, which is partly the reason I left in the first place. Now that I can skip all the early drudgery I've found a new lease of life for the game. It's not about racing to 50 because there's sod all to do when you're there.

Something does need to be done about it, even I see that, and the two suggestions that really stood out to me were either imposing a limit on the number of MA missions you can do per day (which wouldn't really work) or making it part of the three month veteran award.

How can getting access to a mountain of player made content not be considered something shiny and awesome?! Not only do you get to look forward to sifting through the mountains of rubbish content to find the real gems but you have to learn to play a bit first.

PRAF68_EU · 05-02-2009 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone remember the time when the typical player enjoyed the game as it was set out to be played?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, because the game has never been played the way it was set out to be played. Players have never behaved the way the devs expected them too. For example, the original intention that players would do as much leveling by street hunting as by instanced missions; It was intended that players would try to mug each other for meteorite fragments in Bloody Bay etc etc.

MMO players can be an unpredictable bunch, but I think the devs are rather nieve.

I really should do something about this signature.

New Dawn · 05-02-2009 05:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry to say, but it was the moderation as much as the playerbase that kept these boards as pleasant as they were. We've always been in need of a firm smacking down on these boards, and anyone who remembers otherwise needs their rose tinted glasses removing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what you're smoking, but this certainly appears to be a one-off perspective. I think you're on your own, there.

[/ QUOTE ]

These boards could of been far worse and omega sektor meets could of ended up with punch ups. At least I know people who would sooner knock a guy the hell out that move their lips arguing with them.

*Puts on rose tinted glasses*

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

Globey_EU · 05-02-2009 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
These boards could of been far worse and omega sektor meets could of ended up with punch ups. At least I know people who would sooner knock a guy the hell out that move their lips arguing with them.

*Puts on rose tinted glasses*

[/ QUOTE ]

If they did, i'd be so there.

FloatingFatMan · 05-02-2009 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These boards could of been far worse and omega sektor meets could of ended up with punch ups. At least I know people who would sooner knock a guy the hell out that move their lips arguing with them.

*Puts on rose tinted glasses*

[/ QUOTE ]

If they did, i'd be so there.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Globey_EU · 05-02-2009 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These boards could of been far worse and omega sektor meets could of ended up with punch ups. At least I know people who would sooner knock a guy the hell out that move their lips arguing with them.

*Puts on rose tinted glasses*

[/ QUOTE ]

If they did, i'd be so there.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

[/ QUOTE ]

lol'd

youganite · 05-02-2009 06:08 PM

for me a gamer should not be limited on it's enjoyment, whenever it is RP or PL, it's there choice.
i PL this time for just one simple reason, so all i like is unlocked, nothing more.
i would even delete the lvl 50 if needed to make that point, but i like that what is out of reach.
you might see it as greed, i see it as a reward for what i did and payed for.
i want to play a widow, i should be able from the start.
but because they are not gonna change that, i have no alternative then to PL.
devs limit me, i use there own leak to get what i want, simple as that.
i dearly respect everyone who has there lvl 50 out of hard work and passion, i comment them.

let it just known, everyone likes to play there own thing and everyone is different.
and as players, it's our task to respect each others choice.

Myopic Aardvark · 05-02-2009 06:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i have no alternative then to PL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well actually you do...

"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon

Myopic Aardvark on Twitter

New Dawn · 05-02-2009 06:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These boards could of been far worse and omega sektor meets could of ended up with punch ups. At least I know people who would sooner knock a guy the hell out that move their lips arguing with them.

*Puts on rose tinted glasses*

[/ QUOTE ]

If they did, i'd be so there.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

[/ QUOTE ]

lol'd

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got people on these forums who have grown up in different areas. Now if you were to be arguing with one of them from a rough one within their threat zone they'd waste no time in hitting you. It's nothing to do with anything but upbringing.

In some areas men can end up in an argument (often started between the women folk ) the moment the line of personal space is crossed that's when it happens and it is somewhat out of personal self defense.

Some Martial Artists would consider their threat zone with another Martial Artist to be somewhere in the region of 9ft away. It's just in some areas normal.

In work places before all the PC stuff came in, it wasn't uncommon for 2 men to go out back, sort out their differences and come back in and forget about it.

Totally unlike some people in some areas where an on going he said, she said, constant b***hing goes on and people have some stupid thing called a frenemy.

Moderators are very important imo.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

Leif_Roar · 05-02-2009 06:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In work places before all the PC stuff came in, it wasn't uncommon for 2 men to go out back, sort out their differences and come back in and forget about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh. Sure it was. And pre-ED the servers were busier, lag was unheard of, broadcast was used for intelligent, considere discourse and everybody wrote the Queen's English with proper punctuation and ortography.